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No VIN on bike... What do I do?

22K views 48 replies 22 participants last post by  Livid_CBR 
#1 ·
I've been delaying this question for a year and a half now because I have gotten away with not asking it and I'm afraid of the inevitable answer. But now my curiosity and doomsday sensor are getting the best of me and I am finally asking.

Backstory:

I bought my bike in February, 2014. It was my first motorcycle, and my first vehicle. I was so excited to finally have one, that I bought one on Craigslist sight-unseen. The guy lived over an hour away, and offered to deliver it to my house for free. I paid him for the bike, he unloaded it, we went to the DMV to get the title transferred, and that was that. He is on the forums: Double-Take RR
I didn't even think about checking the VIN on the bike, because the title had the VIN, and I was just too excited to finally have a motorcycle. The VIN on the right side of the steering stem has been ground off, and there's no VIN plate. I found all of this out about a month after I bought it, and I just kept it to myself. Yes, all of these actions are incredibly stupid (buying sight-unseen, not checking for a VIN, not contacting the seller and asking about it).:retard: You don't have to tell me I'm dumb. I already know that.

Questions:

1. Can I ever get a new VIN plate or get the frame re-stamped?
2. Are the engine serial number and VIN unique to each other? I have the engine serial number. Would that be a secondary way to prove that this bike is the one on the title?
3. How can I fix this without buying a new frame and declaring a new VIN? I don't care if it's shady or shoddy, as long as it's legal.
4. Should I just stay quiet about it and if I ever move to another state, just try to sell it to an unsuspecting person like 18 year-old me?
5. Track bike?




Kidding about that last one... Don't have the funds for that.
But it would probably be the best option.
 
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#3 ·
There's only 2 locations for the VIN, right? Right side of the steering stem (ground off), and the sticker on the left side of the frame (not there).
I found the engine serial number though, so I might see if a dealer can link that to a frame VIN and see if it matches the title.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I'll try the dealer near me. If they want to charge me money, I'll see if Honda East Toledo will check it for me. I wonder if they can do that over email or pm, or if they have to see the bike in person... Either way is fine though.
I'll give them a PM tomorrow if On The Edge Honda Suzuki wants to take my hard-earned greenbacks from me.

EDIT: Just did more research, and there seems to be no correlation between VIN and engine serial number. So engine serial number seems to be useless.
 
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#7 ·
I'm hoping it was a theft recovery. I did an NCIB VinCheck, and it wasn't listed in their theft records. But if it was recovered, how would they know it was this VIN if the bike doesn't have any VIN?
 
#9 ·
Engine number isn't on the title or any other official document. Would the original factory be able to link the VIN to the engine number? I'm just trying to see if there is a way to prove that this bike is the one on the title.
 
#11 ·
There is no reason to grind a vin off unless its a stolen bike. Just because you have a title doesn't mean you have the same bike. Engines can be swapped as well so numbers don't match up. The only way this wouldn't sound completely 100% stolen is if its a replacement frame that never had a VIN stamped instead of it being ground off.
 
#14 ·
Yep. I think I bought a forged/cloned title and a stolen bike.
I'll see if I can contact Double-Take RR and see what he has to say.
 
#16 ·
The night she was delivered:


A couple weeks ago (before the black swingarm and new Pilot Road 4's):


 
#17 ·
If the bike already paid for you'd see the vin and engine# on both registration and pink slip/title with matching plate#

Heres my questions
Did he give you the license plate?
What made you think the title is forged? Pics?
Is the bike registered under your name or his?


If in doubt, ask dmv to run the engine#s... they should be able to tell the bike's history (that's if he didn't grind off the #s either).
 
#21 ·
Engine number isn't on either the registration or title. It is on the engine still, though.
Engine # is on bike, not on any paperwork. VIN is not anywhere on bike, but is on the paperwork.
Bike didn't come with a plate, got a new one when I registered it.
I got the new title from the DMV, but I'm suspecting that the VIN is forged or cloned.
Bike is registered and titled under my and my dad's names.

If I can just restamp this frame, that would be the best case scenario. I might just do that anyway to get by for now.
 
#20 ·
How much is a new frame from you guys?
Would I be able to weld up/grind the VIN plate smooth and restamp this frame? Is there any documentation besides a receipt that goes along with buying a new frame from a dealer?
Basically what I'm saying is could I just pretend this is a new frame and just stamp it?
 
#26 ·
Is there anything stopping me from welding over the divot where the VIN was, grinding it back flat, and claiming it's a new frame? Then stamping the VIN from the title onto it? This seems legal.
If someone was messing around with their forks or something and a tool slipped and gouged a number or two off the VIN, shouldn't they be able to fix it without having to buy a whole new frame? Just grind it off and stamp it.
Is there anything wrong with this?
 
#28 ·
Do you mean to say that you don't know how it would work legally or how it would turn out? Do you know of anyone who could help me answer the question regarding the legality of it? Do the new frames come with any sort of serial number?
If I can find the same font of punches and line them up perfectly, it would look factory.

Thanks a lot for your help, and I apologize for the billions of questions.
 
#31 ·
The forum is now the only place I can contact him, and he hasn't been active in a long time. I switched phones since I got the bike, so I lost his phone number.
 
#33 ·
Why can't you look up the VIN provided in the paperwork as a starter and see if that matches the basics of the bike? E.g. the VIN should give you the year and the country code. That looks like an '05/'06 model unless the suspension, both brakes and the front-end have been swapped out on an '03/'04, which I doubt.

What was the original fairing scheme of the bike?

The factory in Hamamatsu will definitely have a link between the engine # and the VIN, you might have to go through a dealership to get those numbers back and I can understand why there will be a charge. The factory is not going to sit around looking through records from 10 years ago for fun. There's probably some coded link between the two numbers, but I don't know what that is.
 
#34 ·
I have checked the basics of the VIN, and everything matches up. It's an '06.
I did an NICB VinCheck and it came up as not reported stolen. But that doesn't mean it hasn't been stolen and recovered. It also doesn't necessarily mean it isn't stolen. More research will be done.
 
#38 · (Edited)
My first advice, is to consult a lawyer before you do anything. Just to cover yourself.



There is no record that its stolen. It needs to have a proof/documentation or report saying it was stolen. If the VIN cleared and you were able to register it, you are most likely ok. Again talk to a lawyer to be safe.

But if there is no record of theft on the bike or VIN, and you have all your docs in order, you're ok for now. Get an official VIN stamped on it, not a DIY. Do your research first, double check the VIN with the Police or DMV records to see if its clean. Most of the time, a cop will never check your vehicle's VIN when you get pulled over.

Which is exactly what any enterprising thief might do too which is called forgery. You're in a gray area that at worst puts you in a spot of receiving stolen goods. No crime but you could lose the bike & be asked some questions about your purchase by the law. DIY stamping of VINs is a felony. Doesn't matter if you're holding a title. You have no proof that the title & bike have any relation. Were you to stamp matching numbers on the frame you'd just be completing someone else's crime. Take the advice and follow the link to obtaining a replacement VIN. I don't know how you got as far as you did without a VIN. Usually it's not verified when transferring the title. The title is just reassigning the paper document. In all the states I've lived in though when you go for your registration inspection they will verify that the VIN on the registration matches the bike. I don't know how you got it registered without that. Someone was being lazy. Lucky for you as you're on the road legally. Woe to you though if you're ever stopped by a cop & they check for the VIN. Some just look for registration decal & tabs. Some will bother to look & make sure of the VIN. In that case your bike will go on a flat bed & you will go in the back of a car. You'll have some 'splaining to do to prove you didn't just steal that bike. Being caught is different than being proactive to prove your legality as far as how you're treated. Good luck working this all out. Big lesson to learn. ALWAYS check the VIN vs the title when looking at a vehicle you might buy.


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In some states like mine, there is no vehicle inspection whatsoever. When I bought all my cars and bikes, the DMV and even the Insurance Company doesn't even bother to physically look at the vehicle to check the VIN. There is no vehicle inspection for Smog or any aftermarket parts..nothing. As long as you have the correct paperwork and there is no record of the vehicle being stolen.
 
#35 ·
Definitely an interesting scenario, let us know how you get along with it. If we had a small list of VINs with the engine #s, we could try and work out how they are linked

I know my VIN, but not my engine # and I'm away atm, so have to wait until I get back.
 
#41 ·
Alright, here's what I'm going to do.
I'm not going to stamp the VIN myself because apparently that's against the "law" or something. But I am going to have to get a VIN somehow. So I'm either going to have to prove that this frame matches the title, or just buy a used 2006 frame with VIN and clean title.

Option 1 is taking my frame to my local PD and seeing if they can recover the VIN by getting a forensics guy to acid etch it.
Pros:
Get it legally restamped for minimal or no cost
Lose only my frame if the numbers don't match - not my whole bike
Cons:
Potential for being charged with possession and purchase of stolen property if numbers are found to not match - easy to prove that I didn't know that it was stolen
I would be getting the police involved (something I'd rather not do)

Option 2 is just buying a replacement frame and being done with it.
Pros:
Don't have to worry about numbers not matching up and potentially going to jail
Legal bike without too much hassle
Cons:
Expensive
Have to swap over insurance - I renewed my coverage for a year 2 months ago. Can I change the VIN on my policy?

The guy I bought it from said it was stolen and recovered within a month, hence the clean title with VIN scraped off. So if that's true, the numbers should match up and I should be just fine.

But right now Option 2 is sounding like the one I'm going to go with, even though it would be easy to prove my innocence if it turns up stolen. Then maybe after I get it all sorted back out with the title, registration, and insurance, I can take my current frame in and get it acid etched, and if everything comes out fine, get the VIN restamped and sell it. Is there a way to get it acid etched without getting police involved? Or do they have to be there to confirm?
 
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