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Rev-matching, an obsolete riding technique.

18K views 47 replies 25 participants last post by  CHINO52405 
#1 ·
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=482587408551932&id=100004020308231

So there's been a lot of debate over shift techniques in regards to RPM management and rev-matching.

Some people swear by it.

In my opinion (and that of many national level riders, and coaches/instructors) that it is unnecessary and requires too much work to perfect. Even when it is perfected, it's faster to go without it. Specifically, it's ine of the advanced techniques taught at Jason Pridmore's STAR School and a few other advanced level trainings.

Here's a video of a 1:45.something around THill.

If you listen carefully you'll notice that not once does he blip his throttle. Also count his gears. He will drop 2-4 gears in a single shift and only uses the clutch to modulate his engine braking to prevent rear wheel slippage. This is a manual slipper technique, when used in conjunction with or without a slipper, can be MUCH faster than blipping.

Now here's the biggest advantage in my opinion. ITS EASIER. So much of what we do to go fast requires a ton of focus. Lines, memorizing corners, a minimum of 3 reference points per corner, passing, braking, shifting... Why not take one of the hardest techniques to master and remove it from the picture? And even though it's easier, doesn't mean it's slower. Because it is less difficult, it's actually frees up focus to accomplish other things, thus helping you become a faster rider, quicker, and helping to make you more comfortable on entry. The best part is you don't need any special parts. Just a clutch lever.

Anyway, I'm always open to discussion.
 
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#3 ·
Matt mladin was a madman with the blips.


I honestly believe that riding a motorcycle is much like swinging a golf club.

Yes there are fundamentals, yes there are preferred techniques, yes there is an 'ideal'. But some of the vest on the planet are unorthodox. The key is repeatability. There is no 'master key' to absolute success. As long as the outcome is extraordinary, who is anyone to critique the method?
 
#4 ·
I like the mentality but it comes to question, what exactly do you teach?

In the end people like mladin and doohan were extraordinary. But they didn't get taught their unique styles, they learned it.

I think teaching should be about fundamentals and basics. Everything else should be learned through experience but that only happens when the rider has a good understanding of the fundamentals.

Do you think doohan would teach his BP to anyone? Or would he teach the basics?
 
#5 ·
I think my main issue is many riders today think the only way to go fast is to blip a down shift and just over complicate things, try to do too much and end up hindering their progression.
 
#7 ·
I don't think I look down on those that blip and I apologize if it has come across that way.

Would you consider rev matching to be a fundamental technique or one that should be developed by the riders individual need?
 
#9 ·
All I'm getting at is that everyone has their own style that they develop based on individual preference. When teaching the fundamentals are critical, because you can't teach style. But the best in any business always have their own style that they have developed with experience.


As far as this thread goes, I agree. Blipping shouldn't be considered a fundamental. So there is no reason to teach it as a riding technique.
 
#10 ·
Fully agree that it shouldn't be considered a fundamental, and that clutch modulation should be taught in its place. Once the rider has the fundamentals down, it is up to him to experiment with other approaches and integrate whatever works for him into his style.
 
#11 ·
There are too many skills today that people keep trying to say are "too hard to master so here's a way around them" instead of simply stating "learn them" and blipping is one of them (like proper use of the rear brake). Why not just learn them instead if finding a way around them.

In the age of slipper clutches, the art of braking while blipping the throttle every few gears isn't nearly as important as it was but isn't the proper release of the clutch just as hard to do right? I guess I just don't see it clearly going one way or the other as far as ease of mastering or even a time thing as for me it's all one fluid motion that doesn't add any additional thought so I guess I'm a tick unsure of where your argument is coming from with regards to it being an additional distraction. If you're to the point of worrying about lap times you should far past the point of shifting, turning or stopping even being a front of the brain type thing.

There are different and newer techniques going in all the time as this is an evolving sport and in the end some are simply better than others. But regardless it's up to the rider to find what works for them.;I grew up blipping, my heroes blipped, doubt I'll ever change that and that's my fastest way around a track.

Ymmv.

Mike
 
#12 ·
I feel better now, since I never blip my throttle on downshifts. I noticed that I get a LOT of tire slipping when I tried sport touring tires on the street. That's when I realized that down shifting is where my accelerated rear tire wear comes from. I nver get as many miles out of a tire as my riding buddies do.
 
#13 ·
Rev matching when done properly is done during heavy braking.

That means ideally all four controls are being a applied at the same time.

Most difficult is applying the front brake while blipping the throttle. At low speeds it's not a big deal, at high speeds and when under heavy braking, screwing it up can be the difference of making a corner and going dirt farming, or worse.

This is why I don't feel like it should be taught.

And I'm not sure if I think the rear brake should be taught to newer riders.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Yeah, you know clutch actuation and shifting right is hard for newbies too (see posts by CeeBeeR for instance) so maybe we should just so DCT on every new bike too, man the front brake can be tricky so let's skip that and go with auto brakes. Counter steering and kick stands get newbies too, now what else?

In my book you teach someone to use it right and don't skip it because it's too much to think about. That's the problem with our society today in general: there are too many people that shouldn't be doing the activity they are doing because they are not equipped mentally to do it all and we are all so worried about people hurting themselves while they would normally learn to do it right or no do the activity because they couldn't do it. I know I can easily blip and brake without pulsing the lever, and so can most riders with enough practice. It's a learned skill and worth it to learn in my mind.

FYI, I use my back brake everyday for tons of reasons and the least one is actually coming to a stop. It's the easiest way to settle an upset chassis, a way to smooth out shifts with a passenger, use it to tighten your line when you find yourself drifting in a corner, a great way to signal drivers behind you......I could go on and on. It's a very useful tool and more people, should learn to use it correctly instead of being told to simply not use it.

Your opinion is yours, mine is mine. To each their own, it's just not an outdated action like your title states. This is a racers section, if you can't do four things at once while racing, maybe it's not the thing for you.

Mike
 
#19 · (Edited)
I didn't. That's cool though. I've used both. I only went GP cause the QS I got for super cheap was setup for it.

I'm back to standard shift pattern for the track now. Have been for a while and I like it a lot better than GP. I found that I have to do more downshifts in a shorter period of time while having to setup for corners and brake all at once and having a more comfortable foot position helped with everything. And I spend less time up shifting and it's usually on the straights where I don't necessarily need a good foot position.


I clutch modulate 8 times put of 10 but blip here and there. If I am riding very aggressively I simply won't blip and keep my focus on the front brake lever.
I like this. You learned both and have decided to use the tools you have when you feel it necessary. What did you learn first if you don't mind me asking?
 
#20 ·
Anyway, I'm always open to discussion.
I always blip on downshift. Just has become habit. Similar to rev-matching in the car on downshift.

In the end, I don't even think about it, it just "happens" on down shift.
 
#22 ·
Although I blip 75% of the time, I definitely don't regard it as a fundamental skill.
I was taught to ride by modulating the clutch, but as I got more comfortable on the bike I started to delve into the blip technique.
I personally feel it keeps the bike more stable during heavy braking.

I'm no expert on it yet, but I do practise the technique everytime I'm out on the bike.
I heel&toe in my cars too so it was a natural extension of my riding.
 
#25 ·
No. You got that the other way way around. Slippers were invented because people couldn't modulate the clutch well enough. People started rev arching for the same reason.

The truth is clutch modulation is easier and takes less time (faster) than rev matching.

So keep trying to justify your bad techniques while you get passed instead of working to make yourself better by having an open mind and truly working on the fundamentals.
 
#27 ·
I'm with tary p (a few posts back) I've been blipping the throttle on downshifts for 40 years now so i do it without thinking... i tried NOT doing it for part of a season on a 2 stroke that didn't create enough engine braking to upset the back much if you dropped the clutch on a big rev differential... but it was distracting trying to remember no to, and it didn't improve my lap times.
 
#28 ·
Thanks for this thread. I've been taught that I need to rev match at the track, but I find I'm much faster (brake later and harder) if I just modulate the clutch and rely a bit on the slipper. Until reading this thread I felt like I was some sort of ignoramus, even though I'm starting to win races.

Despite Miweber929's diatribe against people " not equipped mentally" to ride track unless they can master blipping, I'm glad to hear other fast riders don't blip - just like me.

By the way, it's not that I can't, it's that I'm much faster if I don't.
 
#29 ·
i've never had the pleasure of riding with a slipper clutch. at the track, i rarely rev-matched for a downshift. i would, however, use clutch modulation. and coming from years of dirt bike riding before i hit the racetrack, i really didn't mind if the rear end of my CBR got loose or squirrely. and i wasn't winning podiums by any means but could hang in racer/advanced group at trackdays and my best laps at summit point were in the 23's and 24's. i may get flamed for this, but rev-matching might be one of those items for your 'bag of tricks'. something that isn't mandatory, but is probably a good skill to have when you need it.
 
#30 ·
Another one here who's a clutch featherer instead of a blipper. To be honest I never really developed my blipping beyond just trying it out to experience it. I came up through 2 strokes both dirt & street so blipping was a non equation. When I started riding 4 strokes & especially Vtwin sport bikes that sensation of the throttle working in both directions was quite a surprise. Clutch modulation was what I did just to have the 4 stroke behave more like a 2 stroke for me. Of course now engine braking is my friend. I use my left hand sometimes to feather in as much engine braking as I want. I feel for me it can be a lot more subtle than using the rear brake. It's kind of like a manual slipper clutch.


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#31 · (Edited)
if it's obsolete, why do all the new top end bikes have auto-blippers?

I blip. Always have.


Even with the slipper clutch in my blade and other bikes.


Clutch feathering? I reckon that takes way more brain (and way more time) than a quick blip, and you need to get back on the throttle to stabilise the bike as you tip in anyhow... and if you're clutch-less downshifting, well... no clutch feathering there...


As to what to teach... why exclude things? Blipping, rear brake, etc. are all tools in the toolbox. Teach them, give the run down on how maybe it isn't worth it if it is too hard to get it right, suggest a priority as to what is most important (and what may be obsolete or controversial), and leave it to the student.

The aim is to keep the bike stable and smooth? How you do that may vary depending on what tools you use out of the variety at your disposal.

Not all bikes have a slipper clutch. Relying on one is a bit of a crutch.
 
#32 ·
It is all about preference. Some of the fastest guys I ride with just downshift and dump the clutch relying on the slipper to sort it out. Others ride with a slipper but feather the clutch. Still others blip the throttle. These are all guys that are running at lap record pace and racing each other.

On my 600rr with a racing slipper, I definitely just dumped the clutch. On my SV650 without a slipper, I blip. Whatever keeps the bike settled on corner entry and whatever makes you comfortable and smooth is the correct answer.
 
#33 ·
I've only been riding a few years and learned from my own experience that Rev matching on street and track is a benefit. None of my bikes have had a slipper clutch though. It just comes natural now and I seem to get it right 99% of the time with no rear wheel lock ups and keeps bike balanced.
 
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