Honda CBR 600RR Forum banner

Ignition troubleshooting

6K views 62 replies 5 participants last post by  brugger_15 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone,

New to the forum and was hoping someone could help.

Bought a non working bike for a good price and was told it had some flood damage. 2003 Honda CBR 600RR It would crank and try to turn over, but would not ignite. So, after reading the manual and some of the forums I came up with a game plan to diagnose the issue.

1) Battery worked, (continuously keep on a tender when not trying to diagnose)
2) Checked all fuses and they were good.
3) Checked relays (fan and fuel cutoff relays were bad so I replaced them)
4) Jumped the fuel pump to determine if it was working, it was.
5) Replaced all spark plugs, testing each coil by grounding it to the frame to ensure spark, all of them worked.
6)Engine kill relay is good, clicks on and off, I also jumped it with a wire and tested it with the fan relay.


So, I'm kind of lost. Previous to doing all of this I jumped the fuel cutoff relay to try to get it to ignite and it did start for a short period of time. I pulled the jumper to make sure the fuel pump did not build up too much pressure and after a few seconds it died out from lack of fuel.

After replacing the fuel cutoff relay, when I turn the key in the ignition, there is no priming of the fuel pump, which has me lost.

My thoughts for the next place to check would be the zener diode, but have to read up on that procedure.

I was hoping that anyone else may have other diagnostic tests that I can run. As I had gotten the bike to ignite previously I am kind of at a stand still.

Thank you to all.


*****UPDATE******

Installed new ECM and can get the fuel pump to prime now. Still throwing codes for TP sensor and vehicle speed sensor. The bike will still not ignite despite having spark and compression.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
Tary, regarding the fuel pump. I am able to get the fuel pump working when I directly connect a 12 volt source to it, and I can also get the fuel pump to work when I jump the fuel cutoff relay and turn the ignition. It does not prime when I have it connected to the relay. The relay is brand new. Apologies to everyone for not mentioning that this bike is a 2003 CBR600RR.
 
#4 ·
Additionally, I will be testing the voltage of the battery today to determine if the battery is giving off its true voltage. I will update if I am able to determine anything more tonight.
 
#5 ·
UPDATE:

Jumped BAS tonight to no success. Additionally, tried to pop start it without success. Engine would turn but not ignite. Most likely due to insufficient fuel or that the ignition system is flooded from running the fuel pump continuously.

Any words would be helpful, thanks.
 
#7 ·
I will charge up the battery tonight and get it tested at O'rileys on the way home from work tomorrow. Likewise tomorrow I will jump the DLC to see if it is throwing any MIL codes and provide an update. By chance do you know which wires to jump on the DLC? I have a diagram showing the DLC and the jump tool connected but do not know which wires to connect it to.
 
#9 ·
I have a pdf version of it and it shows the DLC (Data Link Connector) and I may be able to figure it out from there but it doesnt show the colors of the wires on the close up of the connector, I may be able to figure it out from the orientation of the connector though. Printing out an enlarged wiring diagram today at work on our plotter.

Another UPDATE: Battery was tested at O'Rileys and shows 12.7 V so battery is out of the equation.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Have you checked to see if your cylinders hold compression? You have spark it sounds like, but fueling is questionable. A compression check would at least eliminate one possibility.
 
#11 ·
I have not done a compression check, I currently don't have a gauge to do so. If I fail to find a faulty wire I will likely need to purchase one to test the compression. I am hopeful that the problem is to do with the fueling circuitry. Going to start playing around with the DMM. Updates to follow. Thank you for the response.
 
#12 ·
So I jumped the DLC to find out that the mil light showed codes for 8,12,13,14,15, 16,16, 48 &49. 8 is the TP sensor and the rest are all injectors. I tested what I could without having the ecm test harness. According to the rest it says there is an open circuit in the signal wire. that being said. There can't be an open circuit in each signal wire. Any ideas?
 
#13 ·
Also, sprayed carb cleaner into the intake and the bike fired up. So I think it's safe to assume it's not spark or compression. Something electrical is not allowing the delivery of fuel
 
#14 ·
If the fuel pump doesn't prime, you need to find out why


Does the fuel cut relay work? You should hear it click when you toggle the kill switch. If it DOES click, then check for continuity on the negative wire for the fuel pump. You may have an open ground.

If it doesnt click, The negative wire for the fuel cut relay is switched to ground by the ecu. I've seen in the past where the switch in the ecu failed and the pump wouldn't prime. Try a known good ecu as a quick check.
 
#15 ·
I have replaced the fuel cutoff relay with a brand new one. I will start it up tomorrow and listen for a click while toggling the kill switch. I don't believe I did hear the click from the fuel cut though. Only from the engine cutoff relay. I will check for continuity tomorrow as well. Unfortunately I do not have access to a known good ecm, but can work on trying to find one. Updates tomorrow. Thank you all for the input.
 
#16 · (Edited)
If you don't have access to an ecu, just ground out the negative on the relay firing cct, this is the wire that goes to the ecu.

If you ground that wire and the pump runs (it won't prime, then stop), and the bike starts and runs then you need to check for continuity and look hard for a good ecu. I would still check with a known good one before purchasing a replacement



My reasoning for this is simple. The bank angle sensor cuts spark and fuel, not just fuel. The killswitch also cuts spark and fuel, not just fuel. The kickstand switch and clutch switches lock out the start button, kickstand cuts spark.

The fact that you can get it to fire with artificial fueling means that the bike is ready to run, but can't due to a non-running fuel pump. If the pump relay isn't firing even though all the devices that would lock it out are satisfied, the only culprit I can see is either continuity in the grounding ccts or the internal switching in the ecm.

Hope this helps you out.

You can check out the common grounding points on the bike as well. If it were submerged you may have corrosion gremlins
 
#17 ·
Your explanation is spot on. The bike was inside a house that had flood damage so there could be some corrosion issues. I will perform the diagnostic tests you recommended and update the forum with the results. Thank you again!
 
#18 ·
No problem. I understand your frustration. A ground that the ecm uses is likely the culpit. It would explain the vast number of codes that are all related to supervisory currents from ecm outputs. Open cct would trigger the diag code.


Start with the grounds. If you can find a wiring diagram, find the grounds in the ecm harness and check them for continuity to ground. That's likely the issue. I suspect the grounding for your efi is common with your fuel cut relay.
 
#19 ·
So today I took the dmm to the grounding points on the ecm and the ground bank. All the grounds checked out. The ground signal wire for the fuel cut, engine cut, all the injectors showed continuity to the signal wire in the ecm. Jumping the fuel pump to the battery and connecting the ground signal wire between the fuel pump connector pins allowed it to ground, so I tested continuity between the fuel pump wire and the ecm to find out. Looks like I'm going to need to find a buddy with an ecm to test it. Any other ideas? Thanks.
 
#26 ·
After I pick up a 20 A relay after work and talk with a local tech I will give that a try and update the forum with the results and hopefully some wise words of wisdom from the tech. Thank you.
 
#27 ·
As I do not have an enclosed environment to work in and it's downpouring here I am not able to do the test tonight. I spoke with a service manager at the local Powersports store and he wasn't much help. The techs were all busy. At $110 an hour in labor and a 3 week lead time I'm hoping I can figure this one out quick. If it is not raining tomorrow I will perform that test and update.
 
#28 ·
Decided to go test it anyway in the rain...Connected the ground wire to the wrong terminal again. Put it on C (the positive terminal) instead of A(ground) because they're the same color wire and wanted to get it done quick...blew the 20A fuse again. Knew I shoulda bought more than one fuse. Going to have to pick one up again tomorrow.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top