: Pazo Levers the best?


mugencbr
04-18-2007, 12:19 AM
I was just curious about these. Do they fit the 07, and if so whats the advantage? Is the clutch side adjustable as well? Never used em. And I take it Pazo is one of the more favored brands?

butterthegreat
04-18-2007, 12:21 AM
I was just curious about these. Do they fit the 07, and if so whats the advantage? Is the clutch side adjustable as well? Never used em. And I take it Pazo is one of the more favored brands?

Pazzo is a popular brand because they are bang for your buck.

Go to motomummy.com and get them for the 07 cbr for 150 bucks shipped...

Darth
04-18-2007, 12:47 AM
Get CRG's.

rocketscience
04-18-2007, 12:54 AM
Please explain why he should get CRG's instead.

Get CRG's.

Darth
04-18-2007, 01:02 AM
For 30 bucks more you get the real thing. Pazzo levers are a cheap imitation imo. Make levers fine, be creative though.

http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/CRGClutch_RADIAL_long.jpg

http://www.ema-usa.com/misc/images/pazzo_colors.jpg

bafflebrain
04-18-2007, 01:03 AM
Please explain why he should get CRG's instead.

Cuz its more expensive..more expensive = better


:supergay:

Darth
04-18-2007, 01:04 AM
Why did you guys pay extra for CBR's ?? Could have bought suzukis right? Exact same thing...

blackhalo
04-18-2007, 01:06 AM
For 30 bucks more you get the real thing. Pazzo levers are a cheap imitation imo. Make levers fine, be creative though.

http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/CRGClutch_RADIAL_long.jpg

http://www.ema-usa.com/misc/images/pazzo_colors.jpg

yes they are cheaper and a perfect imitation... lol, i have had them both and i would save yourself 30$ and get the pazzos. both good levers.

cozye
04-18-2007, 10:20 AM
besides looks, why does one upgrade the levers on these bikes? I've tried the short ones before and think I would rather have the longs, but other than looks I haven't figured out why I would want to drop 150 on levers. Anyone care to convince me? It's not like I don't like buying stuff for the bike :)

paul46rider
04-18-2007, 01:13 PM
i've had both and there is no difference at all!! get pazzo's and save some money mate.

and darth the thing about honda or suzuki, not the same thing dude. sorry but thats a bad comparison

sky_blue
04-18-2007, 04:10 PM
besides looks, why does one upgrade the levers on these bikes? I've tried the short ones before and think I would rather have the longs, but other than looks I haven't figured out why I would want to drop 150 on levers. Anyone care to convince me? It's not like I don't like buying stuff for the bike :)

The Pazzo or CRG levers have little adjusters to change the distance from the lever to the grip. I'm getting levers because the clutch engages so far out that I am just holding on by my fingertips. Small hands. I adjusted the clutch in for now using the cable adjuster, but I don't like how the lever flops around now. Getting a brake lever jut to match and look pretty.

Sete15
04-18-2007, 04:21 PM
The main advantage is the adjustability you gain with the clutch lever. The CRG levers have a nicer finish but the structural integrity and functionality remain identical to that of the Pazzo's.

Typerr10
04-18-2007, 04:27 PM
besides looks, why does one upgrade the levers on these bikes? I've tried the short ones before and think I would rather have the longs, but other than looks I haven't figured out why I would want to drop 150 on levers. Anyone care to convince me? It's not like I don't like buying stuff for the bike :)
They just feel better! it take a little getting used to...everyone's doing it! :icon_pidu

randomwalk101
04-18-2007, 10:29 PM
The Pazzo or CRG levers have little adjusters to change the distance from the lever to the grip. I'm getting levers because the clutch engages so far out that I am just holding on by my fingertips. Small hands. I adjusted the clutch in for now using the cable adjuster, but I don't like how the lever flops around now. Getting a brake lever jut to match and look pretty.

If you are "ghetto", can you just use a propane torch, heat up your stock and bend it (ahem...adjust it) so it would be closer ? Of course, you would take it off, then heat it ... etc...

cozye
04-18-2007, 10:35 PM
I guess I could see the adjustability of the clutch. My VFR had adjustable levers from the factory but plenty of people still swapped them out. The clutch on the RR is within easy reach, maybe if it was a little closer though I might not have the occassional akward 1st to 2nd shift when I'm gettin it.

James06CBR
04-18-2007, 10:39 PM
Pazzo's are machined...CRG's are stamped. Pazzo's are not heavy, that is just a myth. CRG's have issues with rusting in the holes. The Pazzo's come in more colors and are a bit cheaper and do not have rust issues.

Darth
04-19-2007, 12:04 AM
You need to stick to talking about things you know about! CRG's are made from billet on a CNC machine all done in house in the U.S.A. They use precision ball bearings and stainless hardware.

paul46rider
04-19-2007, 01:54 AM
Pazzo's are machined...CRG's are stamped. Pazzo's are not heavy, that is just a myth. CRG's have issues with rusting in the holes. The Pazzo's come in more colors and are a bit cheaper and do not have rust issues.

this is true, i had rusting inside the holes that they machine into them

Alxandrthegr8
04-19-2007, 02:26 AM
CRG's are made from billet on a CNC machine all done in house in the U.S.A. They use precision ball bearings and stainless hardware.


he is right here, I have the CRG levers and I have not had any problems with rusting, I dont get them wet to often and I do make sure to get the water out of the levers. It is all personal preference if you like the pazzo colors then those will work best for you. The adjustability is nice to have.

07CBRnSD
04-19-2007, 04:53 AM
besides looks, why does one upgrade the levers on these bikes? I've tried the short ones before and think I would rather have the longs, but other than looks I haven't figured out why I would want to drop 150 on levers. Anyone care to convince me? It's not like I don't like buying stuff for the bike :)

I installed Pazzo's on my 07 and would recommend them for everybody...track guy or not. To me, I like the adjustability of the clutch lever. After I installed the new levers, I adjusted the slack from the clutch cable and adjusted the clutch lever closer. This has made shifting much quicker and smoother. Motomummy.com allows you to buy either long Pazzos, short ones, or a long clutch/short brake combo. I chose the long clutch/short brake combo because I prefer more leverage on the clutch and use four fingers for this. The reason for the short brake lever (at least for me) is because, on the track or canyons, braking/while gassing to match RPM's during downshifts is much easier with the short brake lever. Otherwise, I tend to pinch my pinky and ring finger between the lever and grip. Hope this makes sense. For those of you that don't practice this, it's a skill that you should consider learning because during aggressive riding, the smoother you ride, the faster and SAFER you are (one of many tips that I found valuable years ago after reading the racing instruction book "A Twist of the Wrist"). I assume another reason for the shorter levers is that when you down your bike at the track, they are less likely to snap off because of the bar end being longer, it will absorb most of the impact. The longer Pazzos have a little rivet cut into the lever about an inch from the ends as a breaking point so that you still have some lever left after a fall that involves your handlebars.

As far as the install, it took five minutes each. The clutch takes a little longer because you have to wrestle with the cable a little bit. If you do order them, they do NOT come with grease which you will need. Hope this convinces you...

IceQueen2007
04-19-2007, 08:05 AM
Why did you guys pay extra for CBR's ?? Could have bought suzukis right? Exact same thing...

I paid 9k otd for my cbr. I had been looking at the gixxer all last fall but once i sat on the cbr, i had made my decision. To each, his own, but the honda is a better performing bike and feels incredible.

i know this is a pazzo lever thread but i had to respond to that one

IceQueen2007
04-19-2007, 08:09 AM
Just ordered my pazzo levers and cant wait for them to get here. Several of the guys I ride with have them and love them. I'll let ya know how well I like them.

synrrgy
04-19-2007, 07:30 PM
Yeah save some money and get the pazzo's. I have both myself and I naturally would go with the CRG's since they are the originals... but for $30-40 more, you almost get the same thing with the pazzo's.

Darth
04-19-2007, 10:07 PM
You bunch of cheap @#%@s !!! :icon_hang


30 dollars is:

two trips to mcdonalds
not even one jug of synthetic oil
one pair of track pants
less than one pair of crappy running shoes
etc
etc
.
.
.

Small price to pay for authenticity.

avovoom
04-20-2007, 03:08 AM
Here are my new pazzo's on my 07. Fairings are off to paint thats why they are not on the bike but the levers sure do look good.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/svickroy/New%20bike/DSCN0893.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/svickroy/New%20bike/DSCN0892.jpg

gee
04-20-2007, 09:40 AM
levers look great, thanks for all the opinions they do help some of us....

Rayzorman1
04-20-2007, 02:32 PM
You bunch of cheap @#%@s !!! :icon_hang


30 dollars is:

two trips to mcdonalds
not even one jug of synthetic oil
one pair of track pants
less than one pair of crappy running shoes
etc
etc
.
.
.

Small price to pay for authenticity.

LMAO... That about sums that up...

James06CBR
04-20-2007, 02:49 PM
You bunch of cheap @#%@s !!! :icon_hang


30 dollars is:

two trips to mcdonalds
not even one jug of synthetic oil
one pair of track pants
less than one pair of crappy running shoes
etc
etc
.
.
.

Small price to pay for authenticity.

Yes, it must be all about money. Lord knows things that cost more money MUST be better. :sign10: Come on, the CRG's cost more and are the same damn thing as Pazzo but with less color options and possible rust issues. People have had rust issues with CRG's .....Pazzo has had no complaints of such with their levers. Yes, I have spoken with the people who run Pazzo Racing and their support and good business ethics is another reason why I feel good about choosing their levers. I have had a bunch of different levers over 17 years of having bikes....how many have you had? :bitch_ple

Darth
04-20-2007, 07:08 PM
You insist on convincing me how bad CRG's are. Can't be done. Its like Ohlins or Akra. Top notch stuff. I am not trying to convince you Pazzo's are bad. In fact I've met them and their facility. It is in our city here. Good bunch of guys. All I'm saying is it is an unoriginal copy of CRG levers and it is very close in price.

(now I'm waiting for you to tell me that CRG's rust) :bs:

And by the way I have had tonnes of levers too..

Cliq
04-20-2007, 08:52 PM
Both are good levers!!!

fruity
04-20-2007, 09:32 PM
Im prob gonna get CRG cos thats all thats available near me, and by the time i order pazzos from motomummy and have it shipped in and waited i might as well have got the CRGs locally.

can someone let me know if i need to get the radial brake version of the CRG for the 07.. thanks in advance.

Disco
04-20-2007, 09:35 PM
I just tried out my pazzo's for the first time at the track last weekend and I loved them over stock levers.

gee
04-20-2007, 09:58 PM
Im prob gonna get CRG cos thats all thats available near me, and by the time i order pazzos from motomummy and have it shipped in and waited i might as well have got the CRGs locally.

can someone let me know if i need to get the radial brake version of the CRG for the 07.. thanks in advance.

yes , same lever as the 1000rr i think

Darth
04-20-2007, 10:35 PM
Yeah the stock leaves something to be desired.

Turbo.MP
04-20-2007, 10:44 PM
You bunch of cheap @#%@s !!! :icon_hang
Price was COMPLETELY out of the question for me with this particular purchase... but I still went with the Pazzo's. They look nicer to me. I don't care if it happens to be the other way around but to me the CRG's looked more "imitation"... just the way they came off to me anyway

fruity
04-20-2007, 11:55 PM
are shortys still good for those of us that use all fingers to use the clutch?

Andrewbox
04-21-2007, 02:22 AM
best bang for the buck is pazzo for sure.

gee
04-21-2007, 06:10 AM
are shortys still good for those of us that use all fingers to use the clutch?

do you have small hands?????

you get used to using 2 fingees

fruity
04-21-2007, 09:53 AM
2 finger braking is the goods
but boy does my left hand get that pins and needles feeling after a long ride.
really need new levers me thinks.

RedFireRR
04-21-2007, 11:37 AM
You insist on convincing me how bad CRG's are. Can't be done. Its like Ohlins or Akra. Top notch stuff. I am not trying to convince you Pazzo's are bad. In fact I've met them and their facility. It is in our city here. Good bunch of guys. All I'm saying is it is an unoriginal copy of CRG levers and it is very close in price.

(now I'm waiting for you to tell me that CRG's rust) :bs:

And by the way I have had tonnes of levers too..

Im with you Bro.. I have the CRG's with no idea what people are talking about rusting. Ive actually heard of the Pazzo's doing that because the holes dont go all the way through so water just sits there.

1 of the guys I ride with has Pazzo's and side by side the CRG's just look better IMO. To me it's like the diff between Nike and New Balence..

Turbo.MP
04-21-2007, 11:53 AM
2 finger braking is the goods
but boy does my left hand get that pins and needles feeling after a long ride.
really need new levers me thinks.
Kinda off topic, but I had that problem pretty bad. Do some stretches/workouts like trying to pull your fingers back in the direction of your bicep, really stretch your forearms good and often. Also, it probably means you've got a little too much weight on your arms so if you shift a little more to your legs it'll help too. If you do those 2 things you won't have that problem again... just a little friendly advice I guess

khowusmc
04-21-2007, 11:56 AM
Im with you Bro.. I have the CRG's with no idea what people are talking about rusting. Ive actually heard of the Pazzo's doing that because the holes dont go all the way through so water just sits there.

1 of the guys I ride with has Pazzo's and side by side the CRG's just look better IMO. To me it's like the diff between Nike and New Balence..


Of course everyone in here is going to think the levers that they have on their bike is the best. I don't think anyone is going to give a strait answer without any bias. Just buy what you want.

paul46rider
04-21-2007, 01:40 PM
i think someone should close this thread, mugen look wot u started bro

James06CBR
04-21-2007, 01:56 PM
Im with you Bro.. I have the CRG's with no idea what people are talking about rusting. Ive actually heard of the Pazzo's doing that because the holes dont go all the way through so water just sits there.

1 of the guys I ride with has Pazzo's and side by side the CRG's just look better IMO. To me it's like the diff between Nike and New Balence..

The holes rust on the CRG's because they don't go all the way through. The Pazzo levers have holes that go all the way through. You have the whole damn thing backwards. Scary...you claim to have CRG's on your bike....never noticed the holes don't go all the way through before you post a comment like that? Nothing wrong really with either brand...but people shouldn't call Pazzo's a copy or imitation or say they are not the real thing.

Agree, this thread should die!

http://www.constructorsrg.com/images/levers/image_large_roll-a-click.jpghttp://www.pazzolevers.com/Images/pazzoblkblue2.jpg

RedFireRR
04-21-2007, 02:12 PM
The holes rust on the CRG's because they don't go all the way through. The Pazzo levers have holes that go all the way through. You have the whole damn thing backwards. Scary...you claim to have CRG's on your bike....never noticed the holes don't go all the way through before you post a comment like that? Nothing wrong really with either brand...but people shouldn't call Pazzo's a copy or imitation or say they are not the real thing.



:flamethro

Yea, my bad, thats what I get on 45 mins sleep while trying to work at the same time, lol, I get confused easy.. I do have CRG's as Ive posted numerous pics of my bike. As for the rusting thing, Ive "heard" of pazzo's but never seen it myself on either, does anyone have pics of either rusting?.. The only way I could see even getting water in there long enough is if you leave your bike out in the rain. It's not really a big issue and by no means was I trying to say Pazzo's are bad.

Darth
04-21-2007, 06:29 PM
This thread doesn't need to die, its hardly argumentative or hostile. I'm all for spending money on a bike and upgrading it. My only point is that for such a minute price difference I prefer the original product not the copy.

With regards to rust in the hole, can someone please explain to me how in the world billet aluminum and stainless hardware could possibly rust?!?! I have over 6 CRG levers on my own stuff in recent years and probably another 20 for friends I've installed. None have rusted.

I live in Toronto where they use salt to de ice roads. If anyones bikes were a culprit for rust they were mine. And I have yet to see any rust anywhere.

wu_dot_com
04-21-2007, 07:31 PM
I agreed with what darth said, aluminum do not rust, it can corrode which leaves a thin layers of aluminum oxide on the surface. But the color of the aluminum oxide is so close to the aluminum, most people cannot tell the difference.(FYI the aluminum oxide actually protect the aluminum from farther corrosion because it shields the inner aluminum from getting contact with the external environment)
on the other hand, Stainless Steel will corrode and rust despite popular believes, all you need to do is put another type of metal on it, and / or let the SS surface contact some salt water on it and leave it out for a day or two. Also the level of corrosion depends on the salt level in the area and the acidic level in the air.

Turbo.MP
04-21-2007, 11:23 PM
...it can corrode which leaves a thin layers of aluminum oxide on the surface
I'm definitely not arguing that aluminum rusts, but I don't get what you said. Isn't this statement true: when steel/iron corrodes it leaves a layer of iron oxide on the surface... called RUST.
If it does in fact leave aluminum oxide then it's essentially rusting, you just don't get iron oxide as the byproduct. I'm confused

gee
04-21-2007, 11:30 PM
it may oxidise but it is not rust/rusting coz there is no iron oxide, alu. oxide is not rusty in color.....

James06CBR
04-21-2007, 11:43 PM
I'm gonna piss on Darth's levers and see if they rust!:eviltongu

gee
04-21-2007, 11:47 PM
hahahhahahahahaha^^^^^^darth is gunna be dark on you

wu_dot_com
04-22-2007, 12:37 AM
I might be getting too technical here but rusting is strictly refers to the formation of Iron oxide.

And the general idea if I remember correctly about rusting (oxidation) is as follow please correct me if im wrong.

Oxidation is merely when the parent material loses electron to the oxygen surrounding as it and form a bond with the oxygen.
While rusting in iron product will weaken the product because it removes the original iron micro structure by replacing it with the weaker iron oxide. Since the iron oxide expedite the speed and the ease of electron loss, this is why in iron product rust will spread quickly.

Aluminum on the other hand forms aluminum oxide, which is an extremely hard material; its hardness is almost to the point of diamond. In the engineering, people typically use it to mirror polish stuff. You may also see it in some micro abrasive exfoliating facial product. the formation of the thin layer of aluminum oxide will improve the strength and corrosion provension. it prevent corrosion because the aluminum oxide is harder to loose electron which also gives it a non-conductive nature and it shield the surrounding air as i stated above It improves strength by hardening the surface which can resist surface failure while keeping the core material ductile which prevent brittle failure (this charactristic can be found on samurai swords). There is a type of aluminum call anodized aluminum which did precisely that and people use it on satilites.

Turbo.MP
04-22-2007, 12:41 AM
I might be getting too technical here but rusting is strictly refers to the formation of Iron oxide.

And the general idea if I remember correctly about rusting (oxidation) is as follow please correct me if im wrong.

Oxidation is merely when the parent material loses electron to the oxygen surrounding as it and form a bond with the oxygen.
While rusting in iron product will weaken the product because it removes the original iron micro structure by replacing it with the weaker iron oxide. Since the iron oxide expedite the speed and the ease of electron loss, this is why in iron product rust will spread quickly.

Aluminum on the other hand forms aluminum oxide, which is an extremely hard material; its hardness is almost to the point of diamond. In the engineering, people typically use it to mirror polish stuff. You may also see it in some micro abrasive exfoliating facial product. the formation of the thin layer of aluminum oxide will improve the strength and corrosion provension. it prevent corrosion because the aluminum oxide is harder to loose electron which also gives it a non-conductive nature and it shield the surrounding air as i stated above It improves strength by hardening the surface which can resist surface failure while keeping the core material ductile which prevent brittle failure (this charactristic can be found on samurai swords). There is a type of aluminum call anodized aluminum which did precisely that and people use it on satilites.
Haha, that's better. Sorry to be difficult.
But hey, I ordered my Pazzo's the other night and can't wait to get them and put them on! I hate waiting...

Darth
04-22-2007, 12:45 AM
:sign10: You guys are something else. The levers, whether brembo, pazzo, crg, are not bare aluminum, like many other high end parts they are anodized and do not discolour or get cloudy. Take a look at an ohlins shock where its getting pulvarized by the blast off the road and wheels. The levers are not in a high wear zone.

ajayates
04-23-2007, 08:49 PM
And why do you boys feel the need to continue arguing until the other submits and sees it your way? The reason both brands exist and sell well is cause everyone will not like the same darn thing. They don't look the same, they don't cost the same, they cater to different markets. Choices = good. Geesh...silly rabbits...tricks are for kids. ;-)

mugencbr
04-24-2007, 12:26 AM
Wow,

Thought i'd get 2 maybe 3 replies on this one. Never knew there was so much going on with a very simple product. But now that we're on topic, Brembo makes just levers? I like Brembo.

cozye
04-24-2007, 11:45 AM
I just ordered black pazzo's last night. 149$ shipped .

Rayzorman1
04-24-2007, 01:25 PM
Wow,

Thought i'd get 2 maybe 3 replies on this one. Never knew there was so much going on with a very simple product. But now that we're on topic, Brembo makes just levers? I like Brembo.

Greeat bro, add more fuel to the fire.... LOL

maxpowers
04-25-2007, 01:58 PM
For those with Pazzo's or CRG (or any other for that matter), how much inward (closer to the grip) can you adjust the clutch in?

Thanks!

maxpowers
04-26-2007, 11:12 AM
BUMP......for question above. :biggrin:

I want to order a set in order to bring the clutch handle closer to the grip.

Thanks!

cozye
04-26-2007, 12:06 PM
BUMP......for question above. :biggrin:

I want to order a set in order to bring the clutch handle closer to the grip.

Thanks!

I'll let you know as soon as I get mine in a few days.

maxpowers
05-05-2007, 06:31 PM
Sorry.....another quick bump.

For those with Pazzo's or CRG (or any other for that matter), how much inward (closer to the grip) can you adjust the clutch in?

dragoljub
08-26-2007, 03:52 PM
After 2 full pages on 2 levers are there any OTHER brands out there?

I like the Pazzo levers only because the most forward part towards the clip on is not silver but black. It will flow much better with the stock black clip on. One thing I do not like about the Pazzo levers is the fact that you can see the machining groves, which I don’t really care for, although it looks kind of raceish. I like the color options too.

What other brands, NOT CRG, NOT PAZZO make comparable levers?

Matt 77
08-26-2007, 04:04 PM
i had the pazzo shorties, i loved them. they were my fav mod on my last bike.

nyczhenry
08-27-2007, 12:54 AM
damn i still think 150 is too much..this will prob be a mod for next season tho. i prob would get pazzos cause its cheaper and about the same thing.
now the question is long or short clutch lever?

ShankerD
08-27-2007, 01:43 AM
$150, have all u guys already had HIDs or u think leavers are making so much difference for you guys......... I am ok with stock levers but wish I cud try these levers on someones bike to get the feel. May be I might like them too...

adge4u
08-27-2007, 01:52 AM
Just ran accross this CLICKY (http://cgi.*********/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290154152562&rd=1) .............................. I'm gettin some Pazzo's baby!!!

wu_dot_com
08-27-2007, 03:18 AM
there are ASV, STM, Rizoma, thay all make levers, the ASV is the most expensice but they are unbreakable though.

maxpowers
08-27-2007, 03:53 PM
Wow....this thread came back from the dead.

Since my question above, I think this is the best $150 I've spent on the bike. With the adjustment and the fact that I like the shorties.....my comfort level has increased substantially on this bike.

scastillo813
08-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Since this thread is already on the topic of leavers, will the stock ones bend at all or just break off with a significant amount of pressure ?
... Im going to go with the pazzo shorties form my next mod.

aeonracer
08-27-2007, 05:45 PM
As I figured out, they break somewhat easily. I snapped my brake lever right off at the weak spot designed to break. It rendered the level near useless since the break point is so far in, there wasn't enough level left to use it very well.

Eventually I'm probably going to get some Pazzo shorties... But that'll be after I get my other higher priority mods out of the way.

Discombobulated
08-27-2007, 09:38 PM
This is my next mod along with the 03 06 Tailight mod

wrk4ups (Stephen)
08-28-2007, 04:05 AM
I have CRG's on mine and LOVE them. IMO the finish Is cleaner looking
Thanks...
Stephen

gee
08-28-2007, 04:18 AM
so worth the 20 bucks more then???

gee
08-28-2007, 04:20 AM
was thinking shorties but like the folding but they dint come in gold so/???? back to square one!

dragoljub
08-28-2007, 02:09 PM
THe only thing I have against Pazzos is the damn groves they have from the machineing process. Maybe CRG wont look so bad. (I hate the silver part near the clip on, IT SHOULD BE BLACK!)

maxpowers
08-28-2007, 03:41 PM
The machining marks is one of the things I like about the Pazzos.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1097/1003090zp1.jpg

Visitor Q
08-28-2007, 03:56 PM
CRG gets my $$$, Pazzos are just a knock as far as I am concerned. Not to say they are not good but I like CRG's myself.

Jason