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Myth: Warming Sportbike tires (Video)

3K views 37 replies 16 participants last post by  Nico 
#1 ·



Had some free time. Made a quickie on the myths and legends of warming sport bike tires.

Take a few min to sub to my channel. Appreciated . :cruising:
 
#8 ·
To be fair the fact that street tires need to e warmed at all is a bit of a myth in it self


HUGE difference between a street tire and a pro race tire


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#9 ·
Not exactly.. There is actually a difference in grip from a cold and warm street tire. I've learned that first hand and almost lost my bike a few times trusting and getting a little bit of learn or rolling on the throttle a little more aggressivly on a cold tire and can definitely tell a difference in grip and performance between the two.

But I do agree there is a difference in a track and street tire and the need to get them up to full temperature. But it's always good to have a warm tire street or track.
 
#10 ·
You were doing a fair bit more than rolling if you lose traction on street tires

I am betting you experienced moisture on road lines or something to that effect

In 10 years of riding I have never accidentally had a tire slip from a "cold" tire

Dumped clutch, wet road paint (condensation), and man hole covers, sure

I really wish the means to test stickyness was readily available to people so I could squish the cold street tires argument


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#13 ·
My question is have you ever stopped to think people do it, not to warm up tires, though to get crap off of them..?

I say this because this is what I do after I wash my bike, ride over some unavoidable liquid (oil, antifreeze or car soap w/wax), sand or gravel, leaves or tar.

I'm not saying do as I do, though this is why I do what I do..lol So before you go assuming I am attempting to WARM up my tires, think again.

I've been doing this awhile..
 
#14 ·
shut you hole! you sound like some nancy who thinks he knows ever thing because he was a test rider ...

wait ... **** you were .. lol
 
#17 ·
You want statistics? lol..umm, ok..think Mold Release Agent. Remember, that was the whole reason for scrubbing in tires before? What do you think the word scrubbing means, with sand paper?

So if you needed to get that crap off your tires before, why would you assume it would be different with any other debris?

I am not offended, I am merely pointing out how new riders and assumptions of why people do what they do often lack the understanding/experience as to why things are done.
 
#18 · (Edited)
The reason I'm thinking your taking this a little personal is because your missing the point this whole video was aimed at swerving to warm the tires is a myth. And that if you rewatch the video you can see I actually support and mention the main purpose for swerving is to remove debris from the tire and not to warm tires which is a common misconception and where people are misled in using the swerve method when riding a sport bike.

Which is why I'm thrown off on how and why your going off on me being against debris. And you may have more experience than I do on a sport bike but warming your tires by swerving does not work as well as most believe and to actually flex the tire is actually where most of the heat is generated in a tire. I just don't support recommending people to swerve with an oil slicked tire because I have ridden through anti freeze and engine oil when my buddy blew his engine on the high way and it was not a pleasant experience after riding through his oil track and riding 10 miles after that still had oil residue on the tire and my bike. It took a couple washed and scrubs of the tire to remove the chemicals out of the rubber.

But I think I'll just have to agree to disagree with you.
 
#19 ·
In the video, you mention seeing other riders doing this, as well as others who have posted in this thread. I see it as well and agree, that most people do it for the wrong reasons.

However, if and when you have slippage or debris on your tires and you are leaned over in a corner, you maintain a steady throttle and ride it out. It takes A LOT OF SELF CONTROL to maintain the course of action. Most people tense up, back off on the throttle creating extra load on tires that are already lacking traction, and end up low/or high siding as a result. Hell, even Kieth Code mentions it and I disagree with a lot of what he has to say..lol He shows a demo of it in his Twist the Throttle 2 video on a bike with outriggers.

I have lost traction many times for various reasons in my riding career. Doing perfect demos for students in wet conditions in a parking lot where you have oil, antifreeze, gravel, sand and you do exactly what I mentioned while in a corner.

If you are in a straight line after running over crap on accident, you don't swerve quickly. That would obviously be stupid. Though you can swerve in your lane aggressively, though smoothly, and be fine. What the hell do you think you do when you are on a freeway, wait till you find a long sweeper or overpass? No, you try to clean that crap off asap.

So I say, before you go assuming a rider is doing exaggerated swerves to warm up their tires, you might be wrong about it as there are other reasons to do it..one of them not being to warm your tires up. :popcorn:
 
#21 ·
Ok in that case we agree to agree.. And yes I have experienced hitting anti freeze mid turn before hooking a left first turn on the way home from work one night... Weird but exhilarating experience.. Kept on the throttle mostly due to not know long wtf was wrong let it role out and bike kicked back up and rode off.. Definitely got the adrenaline going a bit.
 
#23 ·
Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't make my butt pucker when it happens..lol It does. I am also not saying you won't be able to develop the ability either, it just takes time and experience. We all have to start out somewhere, which is why I am an advocate of practicing techniques and fundamentals on the street as well as on the track. On the track, everyone knows what's going on and what could potentially happen (i.e. low/high sides, etc.). On the street, you have people who have no idea what the hell you are doing whether they are paying attention to you or not, mostly not.

Fundamentals should ALWAYS be worked on, while the more advanced stuff is fun to do, just not as vital. Advanced riding techniques however give you a taste of a bikes capabilities and abilities as a rider you never thought you could do. Probably the most rewarding part of teaching is seeing someone get that "ah-hah" moment or cherry poppin' moment. :lol:

I apologize if you took what I was saying wrong. I just have a direct/brutally honest personality. I would never suggest doing something that I don't do myself. If we ever have the pleasure, you will learn that about me as others at this forum have. :shakehand
 
#24 ·
Yea I'm pretty stubborn my self I get it from my mother that women can argue till her face turns blue wrong or not and shell still win haha


But if I'm ever up in AZ I've head you guys have some good tracks out there if I ever make a trip maybe you can teach a young buck a thing or 2 with my track riding. Might be stubborn but am always open to learn and progress.
 
#30 ·
Yup not my proudest moment/video but I figured I'd post it anyways and hopefully someone learn from my mistakes.. I post the good bad and the ugly..

Had a stupid moment got a little cocky some buddies got me trying clutch ups and well they got the best of me haha
 
#31 ·
Myths eh...

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

OP,

So you got some things right.... specifically the things you said were incorrect.

Unfortunately, most of the things you then went on to say were the truth are myths as well...

First off, DO NOT put warmers on street tyres. You will burn the crap out of them and cause all of the oils that are in the rubber to come out, severely reducing the life of the tyre.
Warmers are for track tyres only. No if buts or maybes about it. And yep, around the 160 mark is correct, but it changes significantly for different tyres and riders.

Next, warming of the tyres has almost nothing to do with surface friction. Doesn't matter if it's the result of swerving from side to side or braking and accelerating it doesn't make squat all of a difference to the heat of the tyre.

The heating of the tyre is caused by deformation of the tyre carcase. To be more specific, that deformation causes internal friction within the structure of the tyre generating heat. Imagine the rubber of the tyre as a whole bunch of individual pieces, as you accelerate, brake and go around corners you cause those pieces to move in relation to each other, friction happens between them.
The reason accelerating and braking does a better job of heating the tyres is because 99% of us mere mortals can't achieve the same sort of deformation by cornering as we can achieve by getting on the throttle or the brakes... it takes the likes of a GP rider and balls big enough to make en elephant jealous to get the same result by cornering.

Next, car drivers (be it stock, F1 or any other) do warm their tyres by swerving from side to side. Next thing is why? Simply because what they are driving has mass. A car thrown from side to side puts a massive load on the outside tyres causing a significant deformation, heating them up (again, it has almost nothing to do with surface friction). It's much harder to achieve the same result by accelerating and braking in a car as the weight transfer from front to back isn't as significant as side to side, although it can still be extreme when they aren't stuck behind a pace car.

Crap on the tyre (in the case of race bikes and cars)... Swerving from side to side doesn't remove squat. The low speeds and high temps that are reducing will in fact do nothing to remove stuff, and may cause it to actually sink further into the tyre as a result of it being between the tyre and the ground and the tyre cooling and getting harder. That stuff is being vulcanised into the surface. What removes the crap is getting it hot by going at race pace and the sheer centripetal forces in play at +250 km/hr. The softer tyre means stuff isn't stuck to it as well and gets thrown of easier.
On the other hand, when it comes to road tyres that aren't melting, swerving can remove stuff as the abrasive action between the pavement and the tyre will knock it loose.

New tyres are slippery. Always have been and likely will remain so for a good bit longer yet. The thing that makes them slippery is the mould release compound on the surface of the tyre, it's designed to make the rubber slippery so that it will come out of the mould easier and it doesn't magically become sticky once it leaves the mould. There have however been significant improvements over the years that mean it takes a lot less time for it to wear off the surface of the tyre. Don't absolutely thrash your bike till the shine is gone... depending on how you ride, that could be 2 miles or 200. Having said that, you don't need to baby it either, tyres are still pretty good even with mould release on them (hence if you are aggressive and good enough, it will come off real quick). And yep, you are correct in that heat plays a big part in how fast this actually happens.

Hope that clears a few things up.
 
#35 ·
lol

I could do that... chances are I'd just post it up on here though. Easier to just do this sort of thing post by post as the topics come up...

If you want to know about maintenance though have a look here: http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=227009

And I most certainly do not know everything there is to know!
 
#34 ·
Good post nico and the carcas flexing is pretty much what I was trying to say and last I learned in auto shop in college is tires slap the road and it creates a good amount of heat to the tire not as much as the flex but a good amount..

And I didn't know that about the tire warmers and street tires but that makes sense. Thank you for posting that. Even if I its not from me I'm still glad the info is being put out there for people to learn.

Even my self haha mission accomplished.
 
#36 ·
The tyre rolling on the surface does have some heat generated through friction, but that's pretty much as a result of the weight on the tyre and it squashing out as it rolls around...

One of the reasons it doesn't work to well is exactly the same reason that tyre warmers take a significant amount of time to do their job... you're trying to get heat into something that is a thermal insulator. The small amount of heat generated as a result of friction between the tyre and the road surface simply can't penetrate the tyre carcase. Friction generated through deformation on the other hand happens all through the tyre so it doesn't have to travel anywhere...
 
#38 ·
Oh, the other thing is that 160 is only what you will run at with a track tyre.

As to whether or not your road tyre actually needs to be 'warmed up', IMHO not really. A road tyre is designed to work well at pretty much any temperature us mere mortals will likely get them to on the road. They will get better with a little heat but it only takes a couple of miles of normal riding to get them to that point. From a traction point of view there is really no such thing as a 'cold road tyre'.
 
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