who dabbles in their own suspension? : Honda CBR 600RR Sportbike Forum : 600RR.Net

» Insurance
» Sponsors
» Honda 600RR Prices
Go Back   600RR.net > Technical Talk > Tires, Suspension & Handling

Tires, Suspension & Handling Sticky to slippery tire talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-02-2012, 10:17 AM   #1
brmoore
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West, UK
Posts: 787
Thanks: 554
Thanked 151 Times in 133 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
who dabbles in their own suspension?

For any experts out there, if a rider were to keep the bike relatively stock in terms on suspension and the suspension settings BUT were to lose 10LBS for example, let's take that as the exact figure for now and say street riding

what would you do...anything at all? front softer? how many clicks? preload/damping/rebound? leave rear shock alone?

again assume all stock and left stock and street riding

opinions welcome i think this would be useful for anyone who loses weight etc...i myself have stayed the same for 5years but hey ho

(let's go with 07-12 for now as well)
__________________


Ex-Infantry
SA Security(Armed Response, Firearms, AVSEC, Grade B)
Full Car/Bike, Daily Rider(600RR) Daily Driver(BMW 3 Series)
brmoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-02-2012, 10:48 AM   #2
Niner1000RR
Moto GP Racer
 
Niner1000RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 6,461
Thanks: 38
Thanked 203 Times in 169 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Definitely NOT an expert, but I sure do mess with mine a lot ;)

As far as making changes because you lost weight...

Suspension adjustments are about fixing problems. If you aren't having a problem, don't make any changes.

No problems means you just are riding the bike hard enough to create a problem (and on the street you shouldn't).

Find something wrong, then ask that question.
__________________

"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
Niner1000RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
Soska
Training Wheel Hero
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 62
Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'm 6'2 and hovering around 200, but I would prefer to be 190 and ideally 180. Is it sad that one of my main motivating factors for losing weight is weight reduction on my bike? lol
Soska is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Soska For This Useful Post:
brmoore (11-04-2012)
Old 11-02-2012, 12:23 PM   #4
Niner1000RR
Moto GP Racer
 
Niner1000RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 6,461
Thanks: 38
Thanked 203 Times in 169 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soska View Post
I'm 6'2 and hovering around 200, but I would prefer to be 190 and ideally 180. Is it sad that one of my main motivating factors for losing weight is weight reduction on my bike? lol
Absolutely not! Walk about the paddock at a race and talk to some of the bigger racers, that's ALWAYS our concern! LOL
__________________

"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
Niner1000RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:30 PM   #5
TKSD
Training Wheel Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 86
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
If you are starting from stock settings then I don't really see the point, because the starting point could be way off in the first place for this imaginery rider.

For street riding I wouldn't change anything, assuming the bike was originally set up for the rider weight/riding style before the 10lbs weight loss. 10lbs is pretty marginal, even fuel load makes bigger variation.
TKSD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #6
PattyK
Pocketbike Racer
 
PattyK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 459
Thanks: 9
Thanked 49 Times in 48 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I'd say ten pounds wouldn't make too much of a difference in order to change your suspension from what it's at now if you aren't having any issues. However, if you haven't ever had your suspension set up for your weight it's definitely worth checking into. It feels like a whole new bike once you set it up, assuming were starting from stock.
PattyK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 07:43 PM   #7
OveRReV
Moto GP Racer
 
OveRReV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Islas de Filipinas
Posts: 6,107
Images: 16
Thanks: 328
Thanked 193 Times in 169 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
regardless if the bike has stock or aftermarket suspension i'd set it to my preferred rider sag numbers then tweak the damping adjusters to get good compliance & feedback.
__________________

2004 CBR 600RR JDM
HRC radiator
WP 4618 rear shock
WP 1508 steering damper
Ohlins 0.90 N/mm fork springs
Overrev tuned fork cartridges
Akrapovic Evo Carbon FS
Dynojet PCIIIUSB
AFAM 15/47 sprockets
DID VX2 520 gold chain
Brembo 19RCS MC
HEL brakelines
SBS HS pads
Euro Racing riser plates & lever
HM RL Annitori quickshifter
EVR CTS slipper clutch
OveRReV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 11:05 PM   #8
zenodamper
Pocketbike Racer
 
zenodamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 423
Thanks: 2
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
DO NOT READ IF U LACK PATIENCE AND DO NOT WANT AN ALTERNATIVE PERSPECTIVE, thanks!

(just plissing about whilst waiting for something, so one thing lead to another and I typed a bit much, mea culpa!)

Yeah, tend to dabble: this being a job, my sole transport and I still like it after lots of "time" (ha ha)

Spring rates are more to do with design than people think, so they will always tend to advise with a certain hit/miss relationship to this as a result!

Nobody would say each bike model uses the same springs or damping (would they?) - I mean, they would get it that they all move and have been designed differently enough to need different specifications to these details, roger? (ditto tyre construction/pressure)

..so, it follows that this shock brands will tend toward this spring rate and preload over that shock's type/brand/design/patent, yes? So this null and voids any spring calculators being universally used across the same bike model with different equipment on it, for one. And we should also be able to see that from this there is more at work than just a linear change when movement happens. Be that from the wheel accelerating up, or down; or be that as induced by the motor's twisting lurching upon the chain, which as a result move the wheel down and up too. So all that is meant is to establish that when springs and damping are being selected, they are for one some form of compromise and two somewhat mutable too.

Of course weight changes things - nobody is wrong to pick up on the concept of needing to change a spring if one's weight alters; but neither is it that massive a deal if compromise is already at work and it may lead one to greener pastures! Honda's for one are designed to be suited to a larger spectrum of people, over something like an R6 (for an EG) - anyone wish to guess how that works in their design philosophy?

As far as not altering one's suspension goes? Why? If one understands enough is it not OK? Personally I will change mine as I like to, as and when the mood takes me. Like going to the rifle range, or playing darts; or shooting pool, just because one gets a bull's eye or sinks a ball, does not mean one does not ever play again, surely?

I tend to struggle with this ultimate right/wrong thing really ('cause it is a croc). As in I have a lot of different fork and shock settings that as alluded to, are down to what I feel like for the weekend, or evening. I may decide to use Ohlin's 20mm with X spring rate, or 30mm version 1 on Y spring rate, or version 2 with another spring rate - indeed my 20mm use a different rate to my 30mm. And just this week alone, being as it takes 30 minutes to alter the setting, or just 5 for a spring, I have started the first half of the week on 30mm version 2, and the last 24 hours have been back on version 1. The shock setting has been static for the last 3 weeks, utterly untouched. When I say version one or two, I mean piston and needle types, and not the shim spec.'s, as such.

But back to the fork, I really like both settings. There is no real point in slitting its throat yet just because it was superseded! Indeed this was precipitated a little this week from updating a bike for a geezer from Medellin (who said he knew Martin, which I thought was funny, being as I really like watchin him on telly), who could afford the 2012 shock upgrades I do, but not the fork re-set. So I got pondering over what his fork would be like with this year's shock, and its increased functionality and feedback. So, yeah, put a set together last night and rode home and back - adjust them a few clicks and I can not see any reason why they cannot still work nicely. They passed all my control tests fine, and even offer a different steering character (for the moods, right?), which of course in some scenarios will mean this or that road is nicer to ride on.

I feel that whilst the internet has come along and made people more in touch with tech in some ways, giving them more perspective than ever possible before. It has also frightened them off a lot too. Of course it is easy to get confused or discombobulated by it all. But this should never lead to more stringent hierarchical knee-jerk cognition and prescriptive living (tell you how to think and/or do by intimating things to a pattern/meme decided in your absence); more narrow-minded fear or pseudo-put-downs from adherence to publicly described extended rules (based on arbitrary data!). In fact, I would imagine everyone thought the internet would actually lead to more freedom than it has; rather than this indecision and fear of the unknown.

My point here is that fear comes along surely (actually, it is probably not fear, just cognitive dissonance), but so too does a whole smÖrgasbord of industry experts that do not know things from a 1st person perspective enough - one must know motion properly, hopefully through riding! In other words, it is the end-result of forming a rule-making mindset which is exactly what opens the door for the used TV salesperson type to convince you of something untrue. As it tends to be this sort that can sell/convince you of something, rather than the hands-on R&D scientist/tech-type whom struggles to make points clearly - a certain irony, in that the person whom may be best suited, or at the least with the most background and empirical comprehension, is exactly the type not selected (by you), which is akin to the example of the boy or girl selecting a spouse in a nightclub where best liar wins, hilarious i.e. So yeah, welcome to the future where we all got smarter! ha ha

So yeah, play with it if it feels right! LOL
__________________
www.zenodamper.com.au
zenodamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 11:18 PM   #9
MikeyP
Moto GP Racer
 
MikeyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,309
Thanks: 263
Thanked 257 Times in 198 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brmoore View Post
For any experts out there, if a rider were to keep the bike relatively stock in terms on suspension and the suspension settings BUT were to lose 10LBS for example, let's take that as the exact figure for now and say street riding

what would you do...anything at all? front softer? how many clicks? preload/damping/rebound? leave rear shock alone?

again assume all stock and left stock and street riding

opinions welcome i think this would be useful for anyone who loses weight etc...i myself have stayed the same for 5years but hey ho

(let's go with 07-12 for now as well)
The weight of the rider is needed to answer this question.
__________________
2008 CBR 600RR #1 (Graffiti) street
2008 CBR 600RR #2 track
CMRA #599


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
Unfortunately bikes fall over. It's in their nature.
It's our job to keep them upright, but we are only men.
MikeyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 09:50 AM   #10
Niner1000RR
Moto GP Racer
 
Niner1000RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 6,461
Thanks: 38
Thanked 203 Times in 169 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenodamper View Post
So yeah, play with it if it feels right! LOL
After that whole long post, it comes down to THIS!

And what feels right? no... What feels WRONG!

When it comes to suspension you want to fix problems.

Bike wont turn? Bike has little rear grip? Bike has little front grip? Bike pumps on exits, etc...

You're trying to address problems.

On the street you really aren't using your suspension, other than absorbing bumps.
__________________

"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
Niner1000RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 06:39 PM   #11
ash2020
AMA Supersport Racer
 
ash2020's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,275
Thanks: 61
Thanked 148 Times in 131 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brmoore View Post
For any experts out there, if a rider were to keep the bike relatively stock in terms on suspension and the suspension settings BUT were to lose 10LBS for example, let's take that as the exact figure for now and say street riding

what would you do...anything at all? front softer? how many clicks? preload/damping/rebound? leave rear shock alone?

again assume all stock and left stock and street riding

opinions welcome i think this would be useful for anyone who loses weight etc...i myself have stayed the same for 5years but hey ho

(let's go with 07-12 for now as well)
i read a lot on here and other places trying to try to understand about suspension etc,some people said the 07/08 had progressive springs others said they had linear springs etc etc so lots of different answers,i tried numerous different settings based on other peoples settings close to my weight etc but was never really happy,in the end i went to a specialist who decided i need new softer springs new oil full set up for me and tbh the settings i now have are miles different to anything that i had tried in the past and the bike now feels like a completely different bike it is terrific
just for info my 07 had 1.02kg/mm linear springs as stock
my advice would be if your not really competant with suspension get a pro to do it otherwise you could maybe try a million different settings and not stumble upon the same or close to as the pro would
for me it was the best mod ive had done thus far
ash2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 02:20 AM   #12
zenodamper
Pocketbike Racer
 
zenodamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 423
Thanks: 2
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niner1000RR View Post
After that whole long post, it comes down to THIS!

And what feels right? no... What feels WRONG!

When it comes to suspension you want to fix problems.

Bike wont turn? Bike has little rear grip? Bike has little front grip? Bike pumps on exits, etc...

You're trying to address problems.

On the street you really aren't using your suspension, other than absorbing bumps.
Heard all that before. But you misinterpret my meaning for your own agenda.

I sincerely disagree about the road not using suspension, but the refutation is too long-winded.

Shock pump is an easy fix in 2012, by the way.

The problem with recycled memes like these is.... ah, nah, forget it, I wanna go rest now and read some essays over a coffee...
__________________
www.zenodamper.com.au
zenodamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 01:48 PM   #13
brmoore
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West, UK
Posts: 787
Thanks: 554
Thanked 151 Times in 133 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I have not set my suspension up, but i do think riding street people can benefit from suspension changes as well as on the track, the bike didn't roll off the showroom designed for me, all I want to know is, a rider loses 10lbs...what do people do?

I'm getting the impression that nobody would do anything? Not even change it 1 click? I'm assuming you want it softer if you lose weight, but I knew that already...

Ok so if nothing on 10lbs, what about 20lbs?
__________________


Ex-Infantry
SA Security(Armed Response, Firearms, AVSEC, Grade B)
Full Car/Bike, Daily Rider(600RR) Daily Driver(BMW 3 Series)
brmoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 02:43 PM   #14
AF600RR
AMA Supersport Racer
 
AF600RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,431
Thanks: 200
Thanked 228 Times in 204 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
I dont see what you're really asking as this is a hypothetical question that one can only answer with experience!

If a rider loses 10lb or a 100lb one would assume they will adjust the suspension (if they know how) to counter any issues they may be having with the old setup. However, if they dont notice a difference even though they lost weight then why would they touch it (if it ain't broke, dont fix it).

So losing/gaining "X" amount of weight does not = X amount of suspension adjustment

It's not a set formulae which i assume you realise and i think ash2020 is case in point.
AF600RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #15
brmoore
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North West, UK
Posts: 787
Thanks: 554
Thanked 151 Times in 133 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
but generally speaking?
__________________


Ex-Infantry
SA Security(Armed Response, Firearms, AVSEC, Grade B)
Full Car/Bike, Daily Rider(600RR) Daily Driver(BMW 3 Series)
brmoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 08:30 AM   #16
Niner1000RR
Moto GP Racer
 
Niner1000RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 6,461
Thanks: 38
Thanked 203 Times in 169 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenodamper View Post
Heard all that before. But you misinterpret my meaning for your own agenda.

I sincerely disagree about the road not using suspension, but the refutation is too long-winded.

Shock pump is an easy fix in 2012, by the way.

The problem with recycled memes like these is.... ah, nah, forget it, I wanna go rest now and read some essays over a coffee...
lol, recycled nothing! lol

My information comes from personal experience, nothing recycled from anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brmoore View Post
but generally speaking?
Generally speaking, if the rider weighs less he will induce less on the bike. Meaning you could have a lighter spring, riding on the street will also mean less compression. And you can play with the preload to determine where in the stroke the bike sits.

Like others have said, setting your sag is an excellent place to start. Get your sag set and then go from their. Sag would take into consideration the loss in weight of the rider.
__________________

"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
Niner1000RR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Niner1000RR For This Useful Post:
brmoore (11-05-2012)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:36 AM.



Powered by: vBulletin | vBadvanced CMPS & Gallery
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum