Id like to thank everyone behind me i couldnt have done it without them. Wanna thank honda for giving me such an amazing machine and tacobell for keeping me full with those late night meals and htc for deriving such a magical black rectangle. Like i said couldnt do this alone.
what is the point of doing anything? For example asking this question. This is deep, man......
Well, that the point gets interesting and puzzles me,
1. I honestly think I didnt push the handle bar by any means in the mid-turn or did any steering corrections.
2. "Adding throttle and lean angle at the same time is one of the leading causes of lowsides." I think this will cause lowside because of losing the back end. not in my case the front end.
3. During turning, some say I should ease my arms on the tank when turning, and put my weight on the foot pegs, and you say I should keep constant pressure on the handle bar, which in my view is a little contradicting. the way I feel I am doing right now is your way. and when I trying to lean, I feel I dont have enough leverage to keep the a constant pressure for counter-steering during my turn. I know I must sort out my BP issue first tho.
1. There are clearly steering inputs being made, you can see it in your video. Sometimes it doesn't feel like you are actually putting input into the bars but just the simple act of tensing up or being too tight on either one of the bars can cause it to wiggle.
2. Adding throttle and lean angle at the same time can cause you to lowside by losing the rear end OR tucking the front. Basically you lean the bike over too far for the tires to maintain traction. It is more common to lose the rear end if you give it too much gas while leaning.
3.I never said you should keep constant pressure on the inside handlebar, I asked you if "need to continue to keep pressure on the inside bar throughout the entire turn or can you press on the bar, get the bike to the lean angle you want and then release the pressure while you begin to roll on the gas?"
The correct answer is that you should put ONE input into the handlebar to get the bike at the lean angle you want, then release all pressure and just roll on the gas. the bike will maintain the same line (provided you have good throttle control) until you countersteer OUT of the turn.
It looks to me like you were continually pressing on that inside bar throughout the entire turn (maybe in hopes of getting your knee down). That in combination with your body position caused you to simply lean over TOO far for the front tire to maintain traction and down you went.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swan-rr5
your weight should be off the bars, but constant pressure should be used to keep the bike on that line, what misti means is once you've made your steering input & put the bike into the turn, you should keep the bars in that position til you're ready to stand the bike up on exit, one steering input maintained with pressure on the bar, not weight on the bars. your weight should be held with your legs & core muscles.
Actually what I mean is that you countersteer into the turn and once you are at the lean angle you want then you STOP PRESSING either bar. Your arms can relax and you don't need to keep constant pressure in order to hold the bike on that line. Provided you have good throttle control the bike will maintain that line until you counter-steer out.
Misti
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to misti hurst For This Useful Post:
Good discussion. Misti and Swan made some excellent points.
I see it like this: your hands should be pretty light on the bars during the turn. As mentioned before your feet and legs should be holding most of your weight, not your arms. For example, on a left curve/lean you should be able to let go of your left hand on the left clipon; which is why you sometimes see experienced riders touch the ground mid-lean.
Your right hand should be smooth with throttle inputs. Any adjustments you need to make mid-turn should be done by adding or decreasing lean of your bike and body along with proper throttle/brakes. Any jerking or wrong adjustment of the handle bars can cause you to crash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 365RR
something to add.
I checked my front tyre, it is very obvious the area of the left side of the front tyre has been used more than the right side. Another sign of over leaning in the hairpin?
Possibly. I still have about 1/4inch of chicken strips (Mmm chicken!) on both sides of my front tires. What you should be focusing more is body position, not getting rid of your strips or dragging knee. If you have no more chicken strips, then you're at the edge of runing out of traction! Its that simple.
I also didn't even drag knee til my 3rd trackday--but I focused on being smooth and getting the proper line--not dragging knee. That will come with proper technique, do not force it!
In short: It is not a goal, but a result of proper technique.
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Last edited by TribalCBR06; 11-06-2012 at 11:02 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to TribalCBR06 For This Useful Post:
Wow, page 2 already. The rumour is true: You meet the nicest people on a Honda. I really appreciates everyone's input, Thank you.
I thought chicken stripe on front is not avoidable. lol...the chicken stripes on my rear tyre are long gone, maybe the first weekend when I got the this bike? getting rid of the chicken stripe was never my aim.. the knee down is. lol....
I wish I can do a proper knee down on my 3rd track day as well. but being more careful tho...lol....lesson learnt.
Since everyone is so encouraging and informative, I just uploaded another video on my cornering on that day as well. Thats the session after my lowside in the 1st session. My friend is nice enough to follow me for few laps.
Any suggestion and advice is welcome both for me and my friend, for example, my bad body position as it has been established in this post, my line on the track, speed on the corners?
Thank you in advance.
Actually what I mean is that you countersteer into the turn and once you are at the lean angle you want then you STOP PRESSING either bar. Your arms can relax and you don't need to keep constant pressure in order to hold the bike on that line. Provided you have good throttle control the bike will maintain that line until you counter-steer out.
Misti
my apologies misti, I interepreted what you said as something different, I imagined it as "apply just enough pressure to maintain the bars in that position", like finger-tip light kind of pressure. but yes definetely relaxed arms in the turns
Quote:
Originally Posted by TribalCBR06
Possibly. I still have about 1/4inch of chicken strips (Mmm chicken!) on both sides of my front tires. What you should be focusing more is body position, not getting rid of your strips or dragging knee. If you have no more chicken strips, then you're at the edge of runing out of traction! Its that simple.
I also didn't even drag knee til my 3rd trackday--but I focused on being smooth and getting the proper line--not dragging knee. That will come with proper technique, do not force it!
In short: It is not a goal, but a result of proper technique.
truth! if you have proper BP you'll be leaning less & have more grip because you'll be on a fatter part of the tyre, so in actual fact your chicken strips may actually get bigger when you first crack the BP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 365RR
Wow, page 2 already. The rumour is true: You meet the nicest people on a Honda. I really appreciates everyone's input, Thank you.
I thought chicken stripe on front is not avoidable. lol...the chicken stripes on my rear tyre are long gone, maybe the first weekend when I got the this bike? getting rid of the chicken stripe was never my aim.. the knee down is. lol....
I wish I can do a proper knee down on my 3rd track day as well. but being more careful tho...lol....lesson learnt.
Since everyone is so encouraging and informative, I just uploaded another video on my cornering on that day as well. Thats the session after my lowside in the 1st session. My friend is nice enough to follow me for few laps.
Any suggestion and advice is welcome both for me and my friend, for example, my bad body position as it has been established in this post, my line on the track, speed on the corners?
Thank you in advance.
you're still very central on the bike, you're still sitting on the seat in the turns, but if this video was the same day then its understandable.
I found the pics I took while practicing, I PM'd a mod about possibly being allowed to make a "how to fix body position thread" with pics & getting everyones input, but I haven't heard back yet
I can't find my pics, must have deleted them. my vid won't really show you much if you don't know what to look for but I found an article I read while trying to fix my BP that was very good.
the pics in this are good to show what you are doing now & what you should be doing in terms of BP, they are almost a carbon copy of what I was doing wrong. if you have a read at that & practice the BP, post up some pics & we can try to help you. the bike on stands is a great way to practice
that's quite good seems to pick up on most things i know about dragging knees, it even includes the bit telling you not to on the street...i don't drag knee, the ammount of times i come around a corner on the street and a car is in my lane etc you wouldn't beleive, i've had cars driving AT me in my lane because they were looking for a driveway of a mates house or something(i didnt ask, it wasn't a youth or anything either, it was a fully fledged driver who'd been driving for years, imagine how many other people he's almost killed in his life)....they were doing that ON a corner...so i didnt see them till a few feet away and had to swerve, what dumbasses, but goes to show
dunno about anyone else but when i picked up balls of the feet on the pegs a few years ago it made SUCH a difference to how you feel the corner as you go around, in my opinion anyway, i was always thinking i was gonna point my feet out and scrape the toes and offset my balance, so if anyone is learning cornering a sportbike try shift back even an inch or two and use balls of your feet, i still hunch forward into the tank etc when commuting, yea its lazy but riding everyday i do not ride the cornering position for hours, just gets annoying when you're on a motorway or straight roads or traffic etc..
Good second video u can really see u being upright and pretty centered on the bike. Get off and make sure up upper body follow. And get ur upper body and head down. I promise Itll feel so goofy. Does ur track organization have a photographer? If so I always buy my pics just to see what I need to fix.
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In the 2nd video, you are not looking far enough ahead. This will cause you not to find a fluid line and you'll want to make a lot of changes mid turn. (twitchy)
Relax your grip and upper body while bringing your head down and body closer to the tank.
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my apologies misti, I interepreted what you said as something different, I imagined it as "apply just enough pressure to maintain the bars in that position", like finger-tip light kind of pressure. but yes definetely relaxed arms in the turns
No problem! Just wanted to clarify that once the bike is at the lean angle you want you don't need to keep pressure on the bar to hold it in the turn. As someone else mentioned that is why some pro's or coaches for that matter can take their inside hand off the bars and still maintain their line while rolling on the gas :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 365RR
Wow, page 2 already. The rumour is true: You meet the nicest people on a Honda. I really appreciates everyone's input, Thank you.
I thought chicken stripe on front is not avoidable. lol...the chicken stripes on my rear tyre are long gone, maybe the first weekend when I got the this bike? getting rid of the chicken stripe was never my aim.. the knee down is. lol....
I wish I can do a proper knee down on my 3rd track day as well. but being more careful tho...lol....lesson learnt.
Since everyone is so encouraging and informative, I just uploaded another video on my cornering on that day as well. Thats the session after my lowside in the 1st session. My friend is nice enough to follow me for few laps.
Any suggestion and advice is welcome both for me and my friend, for example, my bad body position as it has been established in this post, my line on the track, speed on the corners?
Thank you in advance.
My suggestion to you is that you take ONE thing at a time and work on it otherwise you will be trying to do too many things at once. For sure your body position needs work but in the second video I still see the same error of adding lean angle and throttle at the same time and that is very dangerous. If you keep that up you will find yourself on the ground again in no time.
That being said, with the different angle of the video, this time having someone follow you, I can really see the reason why you are making a second steering input in the bars and leaning the bike over MORE as you are rolling on the gas.
Take a look at WHERE you are turning the bike in relation to your friend. What happens if you turn the bike too early or too far to the inside of the turn? What is that going to do to your line?
friendly suggestion : dont get obsessed about lean angle and knee down, work on ur lines and body position first, and speed, lean angle and knee down wil come naturally.
If I can add. Your knee down is a cool feeling, but once you get it there you are actually, from that point on, just trying to keep your knee from touching. You want it to barely scrape and then you pull your leg up a bit like you just hit a cactus. Your using your knee as a little feeler tenticale of where you are on your bike. Does that make sense or am I talking out of my arse??
this is both a good and bad thing. while i agree to a degree, it can also be a bad thing if you are at or near the limit of lean and you pick your knee up it can lead to lowsides
ex: knee down
knee up
rider down
while as a whole i agree with the statement just wanted to put another scenerio out there
TEAM ORANGE 
i don't drag knee, the ammount of times i come around a corner on the street and a car is in my lane etc you wouldn't beleive, i've had cars driving AT me in my lane because they were looking for a driveway of a mates house or something(i didnt ask, it wasn't a youth or anything either, it was a fully fledged driver who'd been driving for years, imagine how many other people he's almost killed in his life)....they were doing that ON a corner...so i didnt see them till a few feet away and had to swerve, what dumbasses, but goes to show
