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Old 11-06-2012, 01:43 AM   #31
tucsondude
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sameh....

posts of mine off another forum:
"I do not 'resist the urge,' I just plan it which is not really any better. Whether you are weaving in and out of traffic or on a lonely 2 lane road, the consequences are the same and very real, and your time WILL come.

I always scout the road 1st for turnoffs, debris, tar snakes, driving culture, etc. When you do that it really reduces the opportunities to 'push the limits'.

If i am going to push it, I leave my house knowing exactly where and how I intend to do it, top speed run, or twisties.

Guess you haven't come around a corner(even a slight bend in the road) in a 45 to a semi trailer going up hill in 1st gear? you have 3 options, 1 brake while turning, 2 blindly pass, 3 go off a cliff or into the side. And those 3 assume you do not dump it"
.......................................
"Ok setting is my favorite section of twisties out in the boonies...

-I do a spirited run to check for road debris before i push it (good)
-take a break at the end (good)
-take off with my low beams on (ok)
-realized I cant see **** and forgot to put my high beams on (bad)
-Target fixate on where my high beams flashed, and ride into the other lane(really bad)
-lean harder to bring myself back into my lane, while not looking where i want to be( bad)
-accelerate slightly, scrape peg, everythings ok..."
.................................................. ...........
Can you feel the difference in 3lbs of air pressure? or as your tires warm up?
Have you broken the rear end loose? straight? in a turn? in lean?
If in a corner a milkshake hit your helmet could you maintain your lean through the turn blind?
Have you locked your front end up or washed out before?
Popped a wheelie?
Gone airborne? straight? in a lean?
Can you do the turn with 2 fingers and your thumb on the throttle, one hand on your waist? no feet on the pegs? one foot? not touching the seat? in neutral? leaning the wrong way?
How good is your balance on the bike? How well do you know the balance of the bike?
What if you roadkill a frog?
Can you truly mentally COMMIT to a corner?
If a rock/bug gets in your eye, can you still maintain? how long until the shock of pain wares off, probably a lot longer than it takes to throw the bike.
Do tar stripes or paint lines give you a rush? how much can you slip? How hard have your tires caught the pavement?

Get some sliders and learn this AND MORE at slower speeds please. some i would not recommend on the street.

9k in third ~80 +/- 10, I was lucky to SLIDE on my back 50 ft and stop 20 ft from the railing, got squirmy shifted weight, front washed out, and down i went.


Wish i could do this
http://www.dump.com/unrealcontrol/

.... who knows maybe this thread keeps you from becoming a cripple or wasting the search and rescue teams time sending out a chopper for you.

when was the last time you made your peace? be a little more careful with the adrenaline.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:41 AM   #32
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okay so somehow by describing the bend as one that a TT racer would take at 160 mph and i was doing it at 80-90..i become the 5 days idiot who thinks he can takle 90 mph bends like a TT racer..

anywhore i'll be posting a vid later to show its more or less a straight..who knows maybe you'll never hear from me again and you guyz will have a good exhortation to teach other new-comers a lesson about attempting 'deadly' maneuvers
we're all trying to give an inexperienced rider some advice to keep you from getting hurt, can't you see that?

this is a public forum, if you don't want advice then don't post for advice, ride your bike however you want, we're not your guardians & the consequences of yor actions won't affect me.

good luck with it anyway
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:49 AM   #33
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okay so somehow by describing the bend as one that a TT racer would take at 160 mph and i was doing it at 80-90..i become the 5 days idiot who thinks he can takle 90 mph bends like a TT racer..

anywhore i'll be posting a vid later to show its more or less a straight..who knows maybe you'll never hear from me again and you guyz will have a good exhortation to teach other new-comers a lesson about attempting 'deadly' maneuvers
you said you wouldnt get emotional man. forget the negative stuff, filter out the postiive stuff only and learn from it as you intended to originaly. inevitable the various personalities on this site will approach you differently and its all intended for your best interest.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:05 AM   #34
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i am not going out of the norm here. I ride down that road every afternoon ... maybe leave the phone behind for a vid today...
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:17 AM   #35
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If you crash on a road that no one travels how long before someone will come and help you?


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Old 11-06-2012, 05:58 AM   #36
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So what kind of maneuvers can i do to prepare myself for cornering surprises (bringing up bike and hard brakes in such situtations didn't work good for me..ended up off-road twice)

Bringing the bike up and braking is the only way... If you run of the road, you're going too fast. It's that simple. You either risk your life and whoever might be coming the other way, or you keep your bike under control and able to avoid hazards. There's no in between on the road.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:20 PM   #37
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so quick video ... camera at apex ... tried to capture last minutes of daylight..all was fine until casper decided to tip over my phone ..don't watch if you value time..

anyway someone knows what the hell is that sound at 2:43 as I begin engaging clutch into first?

EDIT: actually as soon as i shift down to first even before clutch matching


Last edited by sameh90; 11-06-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:22 PM   #38
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couldnt really see very much of your video apart from some streetlights and one car
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:20 PM   #39
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If you crash on a road that no one travels how long before someone will come and help you?
its not 'that' abandoned..its just peaceful
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:26 PM   #40
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when was the last time you made your peace? be a little more careful with the adrenaline.
i do my checks too every single time..plus there's not much banking involved and no weight shifting needed..there's no way in hell i am halfway near the limit..
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:38 PM   #41
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- I said i am discovering wheelieing scooters is irrelevant.

- I have no access to a track..closest is a long drive away that allows only few days for bikes year round at ~$200 for 40min sessions-- no instructors (it's an official F1 racetrack).

- you can't possibly think you won't make a corner when your just banking a half of what the bike can.

- did it a few times just brought the bike up and braked in a straightline while downshifting.. felt like it was helping me with learning absolutely nothing..so i am asking for tips..maybe there are some instructors here.
Get to the track. I guarantee that money spent will be less than the repairs and hospital bills you are asking for trying to push your limits on the street as an inexperienced rider.
We all have to drive a long way to get to one.We all have to spend lots of money. You can make excuses, or you can learn the right way.

There is no other solution to your problem.
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Unfortunately bikes fall over. It's in their nature.
It's our job to keep them upright, but we are only men.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #42
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Yeah man scooters don't count. Why is it that a lot of newbs want to GO FAST and push their limits as if they were racing in the Isle of Man .... Why can't u just enjoy the awesomeness that is your 600rr and enjoy the ride. Even then going speed limit. There will always be surprises that can happen


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Old 11-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #43
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video removed by user??? or maybe i just copied the vid link wrong??

anyway don't matter. op, take it from me (or not i don't care)...i've never done a track-day and been riding my rr for the end of a 3rd season.. and there's still corners i go through that i KNOW can be taken faster. but i choose not to, not only do i not know what's changed in that corner in the lsat week, but what if there is a cop just around it? then i'm f*d. its not worth the extra risk to me anyway. be safe, and don't become a statistic raising the rest of our insurance premiums
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:15 AM   #44
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there's still corners i go through that i KNOW can be taken faster. but i choose not to, not only do i not know what's changed in that corner in the lsat week, but what if there is a cop just around it? then i'm f*d. its not worth the extra risk to me anyway. be safe, and don't become a statistic raising the rest of our insurance premiums


i am not trying to get to the limit yet...if i do i'll try and be at a track..i am just curious as to what to expect when swerving at 70+ mph..my balls haven't grown that far yet...as for that road... it leads to a ferry i stroll down it cruising checking for burst tires, rubbish, sand, etc. and then speed back down the road.. its wide..no trees..no nothing to hit ...30 ft of beach on either sides..lamp posts on the inside of the turns... visibility ~ 1+ mile ahead..i slow down for any suspicious car.. that turn is pretty much a straight did 120ish the other day just 10degrees banking..the video is on that channel sameh90 called 'irrelevant'
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:28 AM   #45
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at 70mph you're travelling roughly 105 feet per second. now take into account the thinking/reaction time when you spot a hazard, roughly 0.75 seconds. that means that by the time you react to the hazard by braking/standing the bike up/swerving/whatever, you will have already travelled 78 feet.

at 120 mph your travelling at 180 feet per second, giving you a thinking distance of 135 feet BEFORE you've even started doing something about it.

now on a road like this one it shouldn't matter too much since, as you say, you can see over a mile ahead, giving you lots of time to recognise & plan for any potential hazard.

however, if you meet a hazard in the middle of a blind corner at 70mph, depending on the distance from the object you actually are when you spot it, you're either going to (1) panic, hit the brake & probably lose the front & crash. (2) try to swerve round it by standing the bike up fast, shifting weight, countersteering & getting the bike going the opposite way, which will probably take you into the lane of oncoming traffic. or (3) hit the object. (yes there will be other ways to deal with things, but since your new to riding, these are the most likely)

how to avoid this is by getting out in the real world, away from this road your "practicing" on & actually learning whats important. I'll give you examples: proper positioning within your lane to give you the best possible view round any corner. proper use of brakes & gears for efficient cornering. maintain a safe following distance to the vehicles in front. judging road/traffic/weather conditions before opening up to higher speeds.

I'm not going into detail with these because I don't believe you'd be that interested. but I will explain further if you want.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:22 AM   #46
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however, if you meet a hazard in the middle of a blind corner at 70mph, depending on the distance from the object you actually are when you spot it, you're either going to (1) panic, hit the brake & probably lose the front & crash. (2) try to swerve round it by standing the bike up fast, shifting weight, countersteering & getting the bike going the opposite way, which will probably take you into the lane of oncoming traffic. or (3) hit the object. (yes there will be other ways to deal with things, but since your new to riding, these are the most likely)
First ..I feel honored to have the honor of thanking you from the deepest reaches of my not-so-tank-busted balls for the most usefull and least critical/condescending answer i've got so far. :hats off man:

2nd i kinda see now that nothing good can come from speeding around corners on public roads..maybe someday i can confidently speed-corner around/over potholes/wet patches/sand piles/banana skins ..wtvr. but never will i always have time or space to react to accident scenes / traffic jams ..etvr. which are quite common around where i live. Heck i am can't see myself ever trusting the public with my life..i normally just take the rightmost lane and cruise or take the left shoulder and go slightly over the speedlimit..can't stand them tailgators.

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how to avoid this is by getting out in the real world, away from this road your "practicing" on & actually learning whats important. I'll give you examples: proper positioning within your lane to give you the best possible view round any corner. proper use of brakes & gears for efficient cornering. maintain a safe following distance to the vehicles in front. judging road/traffic/weather conditions before opening up to higher speeds.
I don't go to that road just to speed back and forth..thats just for the occasional rush..what i mostly do is practice narrowing down and speeding up my figure of eight and u-turn..pile some sand or find a wet patch and experiment with straight line braking/accelerating or slightly banked cruising..some rev matching..lock rear/front few times and end it with some failed wheelie/stoppie attempts...

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I'm not going into detail with these because I don't believe you'd be that interested. but I will explain further if you want.
as to your advice if its basically MSF stuff no thanks and if its twist of the wrist II stuff i've seen it all and i know i'm not quite there yet...if you have tips for the following please do share it:

-parking lot speeds during full lock banked turns..i feel kinda crippled mostly during right hand turns and a bit with lefties..i know its a bit of the handlebar positions fault (i only have this problem with my cbr) but i'm not sure about risers in terms of looks and tucked in position / aero mode. I kinda learned that during lefties holding the bar from a more vertical position gives you slightly more control on throttle but .. still feels much harder than it should be especially with the clutch..any ideas?

- 1st or 2nd for the above situation?

- shifting body position during braking..i just seem to keep pushing on those bars...

any help would be great
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:07 AM   #47
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First ..I feel honored to have the honor of thanking you from the deepest reaches of my not-so-tank-busted balls for the most usefull and least critical/condescending answer i've got so far. :hats off man:

2nd i kinda see now that nothing good can come from speeding around corners on public roads..maybe someday i can confidently speed-corner around/over potholes/wet patches/sand piles/banana skins ..wtvr. but never will i always have time or space to react to accident scenes / traffic jams ..etvr. which are quite common around where i live. Heck i am can't see myself ever trusting the public with my life..i normally just take the rightmost lane and cruise or take the left shoulder and go slightly over the speedlimit..can't stand them tailgators.



I don't go to that road just to speed back and forth..thats just for the occasional rush..what i mostly do is practice narrowing down and speeding up my figure of eight and u-turn..pile some sand or find a wet patch and experiment with straight line braking/accelerating or slightly banked cruising..some rev matching..lock rear/front few times and end it with some failed wheelie/stoppie attempts...



as to your advice if its basically MSF stuff no thanks and if its twist of the wrist II stuff i've seen it all and i know i'm not quite there yet...if you have tips for the following please do share it:

-parking lot speeds during full lock banked turns..i feel kinda crippled mostly during right hand turns and a bit with lefties..i know its a bit of the handlebar positions fault (i only have this problem with my cbr) but i'm not sure about risers in terms of looks and tucked in position / aero mode. I kinda learned that during lefties holding the bar from a more vertical position gives you slightly more control on throttle but .. still feels much harder than it should be especially with the clutch..any ideas?

- 1st or 2nd for the above situation?

- shifting body position during braking..i just seem to keep pushing on those bars...

any help would be great
why do you feel you're too good to take a proper motorcycle safety course?
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:33 AM   #48
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as to your advice if its basically MSF stuff no thanks and if its twist of the wrist II stuff i've seen it all and i know i'm not quite there yet...if you have tips for the following please do share it:

-parking lot speeds during full lock banked turns..i feel kinda crippled mostly during right hand turns and a bit with lefties..i know its a bit of the handlebar positions fault (i only have this problem with my cbr) but i'm not sure about risers in terms of looks and tucked in position / aero mode. I kinda learned that during lefties holding the bar from a more vertical position gives you slightly more control on throttle but .. still feels much harder than it should be especially with the clutch..any ideas?

- 1st or 2nd for the above situation?

- shifting body position during braking..i just seem to keep pushing on those bars...

any help would be great

this says 1 of 2 things either you never took a msf course or you took nothing from the msf course, as slow stuff is alot of what they teach.

slow right hand turns tend to give new riders problems bc they arent able to maintain smooth throttle inputs bc of the clearance between the tank and the bars so when you know your going to make a slow right hand turn you can either put your wrist higher up on the throttle (as if you were going to give it alot of throttle), or you can slide your hand off the end of the throttle as if your holding a screwdriver. both of these will help you maintain good throttle control which in turn makes slow turns smoother.

i think your starting to get what people are saying though its the unknown and constantly changing variables on the street that make it dangerous, and at excessive speeds there is absolutely nothing you can do to react to many situations except hope for the best. thats why you see everyone posting what they have been.

best of luck to you
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:06 AM   #49
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why do you feel you're too good to take a proper motorcycle safety course?
i am not in the states..there aren't any over here..there's just the standard traffic authorities courses on the 100-125cc bikes .. i didn't do it and passed the test with one JUST ONE hour 'private' training on the figure of eight, which tells a lot about the quality of the course. There's an intensive course given by a chopper dealership that costs almost half of what i payed for the bike.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:09 AM   #50
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this says 1 of 2 things either you never took a msf course or you took nothing from the msf course, as slow stuff is alot of what they teach.

slow right hand turns tend to give new riders problems bc they arent able to maintain smooth throttle inputs bc of the clearance between the tank and the bars so when you know your going to make a slow right hand turn you can either put your wrist higher up on the throttle (as if you were going to give it alot of throttle), or you can slide your hand off the end of the throttle as if your holding a screwdriver. both of these will help you maintain good throttle control which in turn makes slow turns smoother.

i think your starting to get what people are saying though its the unknown and constantly changing variables on the street that make it dangerous, and at excessive speeds there is absolutely nothing you can do to react to many situations except hope for the best. thats why you see everyone posting what they have been.

best of luck to you
nope..i am not in the states ... just had a quick look at the pdf.. i think i'll read it again.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:20 AM   #51
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i am not in the states..there aren't any over here..there's just the standard traffic authorities courses on the 100-125cc bikes .. i didn't do it and passed the test with one JUST ONE hour 'private' training on the figure of eight, which tells a lot about the quality of the course. There's an intensive course given by a chopper dealership that costs almost half of what i payed for the bike.
ok that's fair. I guess you can only work with what you're given. the figure of eight is a good training tool. it should teach you to move your head/vision as well as proper throttle/brake/clutch control.

also work on supporting yourself with your legs & core muscles under braking, this will allow you to keep your arms bent & most importantly no weight on the bars, this will let you turn the bike easier, even in slow turns. you're probably holding yourself on the bars & constantly fighting yourself to turn the bike.

tight slow turns aren't easy on these bikes because the turning circle is so wide. there will be lots of training exercises online to show what else you can work on. check youtube. here in the UK we do a CBT (compulsory basic training) look for info & vids on that, lots of slow maneuvers in that
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:45 PM   #52
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:33 PM   #53
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:46 PM   #54
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:54 AM   #55
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okay .. im not still stuck with the basics either ...i can easily do figure-8 and u turns @ 10 ft turning circle at good speed ..i just think 6-8 feet should be more like it
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:57 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by underoath1122 View Post
Honestly I think all he cares about is go fast go fast go fast


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looks that way,

although I find that being able to do a nice tight figure of eight has got me out of all kinds of bad situations

sometimes it's good to go back to basics, but since OP is so super cool awesome I guess he can't be seen to practice at anything less than 100+, cos the cool kids don't do that $hit yo!

I'm done
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:32 AM   #57
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:11 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh90 View Post

as to your advice if its basically MSF stuff no thanks and if its twist of the wrist II stuff i've seen it all and i know i'm not quite there yet...if you have tips for the following please do share it:
Then why are you already trying to get there? Brother, as a fellow motorcyclist I am pleading with you to take things easy unless you plan on getting on a racetrack. Think about the big picture here for a moment with me.

As a former racer myself, the thing I remember the most is the fact that I was able to have an average crash of less than one a season where most of my friends at the time were going to the hospital for something every other race weekend. This does not mean I was slow by any means, I won my fair share of races, however, I also do not have a limp or loss of memory at all from all those days. In the grand scheme of things, is it really worth really messing yourself up (broken back, neck, head injuries, etc.) in order to go 2mph faster through a turn?

Now onto the practical stuff since you asked:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh90 View Post
parking lot speeds during full lock banked turns..i feel kinda crippled mostly during right hand turns and a bit with lefties..i know its a bit of the handlebar positions fault (i only have this problem with my cbr) but i'm not sure about risers in terms of looks and tucked in position / aero mode. I kinda learned that during lefties holding the bar from a more vertical position gives you slightly more control on throttle but .. still feels much harder than it should be especially with the clutch..any ideas?
As another poster has already mentioned, you have to figure out how to get comfortable throttle control. This may be as simple as adjusting your levers for easier reach or adjusting how you grip the throttle. For most people who see and/or ride my bike, they think the levers are positioned too far downward, but they work for me in all situations, even low speed parking lot maneuvers. About the bold, think big picture, who really gives a damn about going into "aero mode" on the street? Another thing that might help you here is trying to keep your arms perpendicular to the bars. This will give you more leverage but will put you into a slight tucked in position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh90 View Post
- 1st or 2nd for the above situation?
Depends on the speed and your own choice. Look, I am not trying to pick on you, seriously, but this is the kind of question that shows just how green you are. You need to build your experience portfolio big time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh90 View Post
- shifting body position during braking..i just seem to keep pushing on those bars...
You need to learn to grip the tank with your knees. One of the keys to control is being able to do everything you need to do while holding the handlebars with the same force you would use for gripping baby chickens/chicks. Not so tight to crush them, but not so loose as for them to fall out. One of the ways to 'train' yourself to do this is to do a wrist or elbow check. Simply put, you should be able to move your wrists or do the funky chicken while riding. If you can't, you're holding the bars too tightly.

The best book I have seen for new riders on sport bikes is "Sport Riding Techniques" by Nick Ienatsch. It is oriented towards street riding on supersports so for the most part so it will be very relevant.

Damian

Last edited by TeamPrecisionIT; 12-29-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:13 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamPrecisionIT View Post
Then why are you already trying to get there? Brother, as a fellow motorcyclist I am pleading with you to take things easy unless you plan on getting on a racetrack. Think about the big picture here for a moment with me.

As a former racer myself, the thing I remember the most is the fact that I was able to have an average crash of less than one a season where most of my friends at the time were going to the hospital for something every other race weekend. This does not mean I was slow by any means, I won my fair share of races, however, I also do not have a limp or loss of memory at all from all those days. In the grand scheme of things, is it really worth really messing yourself up (broken back, neck, head injuries, etc.) in order to go 2mph faster through a turn?

Now onto the practical stuff since you asked:



As another poster has already mentioned, you have to figure out how to get comfortable throttle control. This may be as simple as adjusting your levers for easier reach or adjusting how you grip the throttle. For most people who see and/or ride my bike, they think the levers are positioned too far downward, but they work for me in all situations, even low speed parking lot maneuvers. About the bold, think big picture, who really gives a damn about going into "aero mode" on the street? Another thing that might help you here is trying to keep your arms perpendicular to the bars. This will give you more leverage but will put you into a slight tucked in position.



Depends on the speed and your own choice. Look, I am not trying to pick on you, seriously, but this is the kind of question that shows just how green you are. You need to build your experience portfolio big time.


You need to learn to grip the tank with your knees. One of the keys to control is being able to do everything you need to do while holding the handlebars with the same force you would use for gripping baby chickens/chicks. Not so tight to crush them, but not so loose as for them to fall out. One of the ways to 'train' yourself to do this is to do a wrist or elbow check. Simply put, you should be able to move your wrists or do the funky chicken while riding. If you can't, you're holding the bars too tightly.

The best book I have seen for new riders on sport bikes is "Sport Riding Techniques" by Nick Ienatsch. It is oriented towards street riding on supersports so for the most part so it will be very relevant.

Damian
Read it twice and reading it for a third time.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:26 PM   #60
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I am really surprised that this person hasn't even responded, I guess I wasted my time trying to help someone new learn the error of their ways. Good luck with life.

Damian

Last edited by TeamPrecisionIT; 01-04-2013 at 01:41 AM.
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