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Old 11-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #31
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Dude you really are an ignorant know it all arent you.
Cool, I'm a paradox... I think I'm noticing a trend here. Anyone that doesn't conform to the "right"/neoconservatives perspective on things is somehow an idiot...

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What is your line of work since you know so much?
What does my line of work have to do with anything? I doubt you're anything but a small cog in the military industrial complex, so I doubt your job provides you with any meaningful perspective on the geopolitics that have been occurring for ages, you only see the results of a failed foreign policy. You almost certainly know as much as you're being told to know.

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Lead by fear? Lmao, no I just pay attention to what's happening.
Hahahaha yea! Fear! LMAOROFL#@. Right on cue you talk about how scary China is and how the US needs to spend 4 times more than them to stay ahead or else! Then you insinuate that the middle east is some hotbed for military innovation. All this to support the age old "we need to stay ahead, so give us unlimited budget" mantra. You're ruled by fear and you don't even know it, don't worry most humans are... You're not special.

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No point in explaining myself to someone like you. +1 for ignorance
Good, I really have better things to do than to correct your distortion field of bullsh*t.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:43 AM   #32
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I'm messed up because I don't subscribe to the same ideology that you do? That's a sound argument if I ever heard one!
No sir, you got that all wrong. This is where I said you were messed up.

You tried to make a case for "I think it's better to be pissing away money on figuring out how to become self sufficient than to piss it away finding better and better ways to destroy your neighbor."

So you're making a valid case for using tax payer funds to invest in US industry INSTEAD of wars.

Now, I disagree with tax payer funds being used to BET on unproven industries. But I understand your comment and respect it. That's something we can simply just not be on the same page. And it's ok.

But where you failed was that you don't recognize the fact that the one isn't being done OVER another. It's in addition too!

If you were to say, hey stop spending money on Iraq and invest it here INSTEAD, that's one thing. But that's not what's happening.

They just want to take MORE money from tax payers to fund BOTH!

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You make it sound like running government is such a simple thing. Spend money on A or B. The reality is FAR from that.
And why is that? Think about the core of that question. So instead of making it MORE complex, lets simplify it!

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So because so much money gets spent on military R&D... that means you can't spend anything on energy R&D? Hell, a big enough breakthrough and/or mass production of stuff could actually help the military.
If it's part of the Military budget, fine. That's on them. But to just take tax payer dollars and GIVE it to these companies, even AFTER YOU WERE WARNED NOT TO because they were going to fail, then have them fail. That is unacceptable.

The government is outright GAMBLING with our money. That is NOT their job!


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Although you may disagree with it, one of the governments jobs is to invest into the economy in times like these, to try and keeps things moving along. You can debate economic theory all you like, but many respected people far smarter than both of us agree with that.
And many respected people disagree with that.

If government spending was the answer we should have the best economy in HISTORY right now! As we've spent more in the last 4 years and EVER!

FAIL! lol


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Well, they've been doing it for literally hundreds of years... Anytime you "invest" money, you're taking a chance that it will fail, in essence you're gambling. How is an investment in R&D/factories for renewable energy any different than say the Hoover Dam? There was a chance the Hoover Dam could fail or that things could go drastically wrong, was the government overstepping its responsibility when it used public funds on that project?
You're trying to compare a couple individual projects against BILLIONS spent on an unproven industry.

At what point do you say, ok this isn't going to work?

If the hoover damn proved to be a failure, would you build 5 more?

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More importantly, I can't remember the last time the government actually cared about adhering to the spirit of that document. Government sees it as a mere inconvenience... something they just work around by making secret interpretation of laws and all kinds of other bullsh*t.
Agreed and we must DEMAND BETTER!
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:47 AM   #33
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Hahahaha yea! Fear! LMAOROFL#@. Right on cue you talk about how scary China is and how the US needs to spend 4 times more than them to stay ahead or else! Then you insinuate that the middle east is some hotbed for military innovation. All this to support the age old "we need to stay ahead, so give us unlimited budget" mantra. You're ruled by fear and you don't even know it, don't worry most humans are... You're not special.
You're once again going from one extreme to another.

Saying we shouldn't deplete our military isn't saying we should evaluate our budgets and spending.

But it's also not saying we should completely eliminate our about to invoke FEAR on our enemies.

Publicly announcing that we want to be a nuclear free nation while other nations are striving for building MORE nuclear weapons is ridiculous!

You must have a supreme threat of power over those whom oppose you. Doesn't mean you have to attack them, but they must second guess their intentions to attack you through your ability to respond.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #34
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Cool, I'm a paradox... I think I'm noticing a trend here. Anyone that doesn't conform to the "right"/neoconservatives perspective on things is somehow an idiot...

The trend is that ppl don't respond well to smart***es that do nothing put throw out uninformed, rude, ignorant comments with nothing to back it up. Ppl in these threads have adult convos and debates. While you are just acting like an upset kid that throws a fit because he can't back up anything he says. Are you hungry? Eat a snicker's man, no one likes you when you act like a prick

What does my line of work have to do with anything? I doubt you're anything but a small cog in the military industrial complex, so I doubt your job provides you with any meaningful perspective on the geopolitics that have been occurring for ages, you only see the results of a failed foreign policy. You almost certainly know as much as you're being told to know.

Making alot of assumptions I see. Well lets see, I'm a reg citizen that works doing Network/Computer Security. Small Cog? I'm the boss, but good try. I asked for a reason, because if you have no knowledge of computers other than facebook and email than you would not know anything about the types of worms, viruses, hacks, etc that come out of these countries or how these countries have gov't funded groups that do nothing but hack the U.S. systems to try to steal gov't secrets or how a worm could wipe out the power system, and anything else. You also wouldn't know that when Obama decided he wanted some election bragging and disclosed that we made the Stuxnet worm that not only was it illegal (b/c it being classified) but that the stupidest thing he could do.



Hahahaha yea! Fear! LMAOROFL#@. Right on cue you talk about how scary China is and how the US needs to spend 4 times more than them to stay ahead or else! Then you insinuate that the middle east is some hotbed for military innovation. All this to support the age old "we need to stay ahead, so give us unlimited budget" mantra. You're ruled by fear and you don't even know it, don't worry most humans are... You're not special.

Glad that if nothing else, you at least accomplished being good at trolling. Please explain to me how I am afraid. and use that actual definition of fear. Being prepared or aware is not being afraid.

Good, I really have better things to do than to correct your distortion field of bullsh*t.

Once again showing your maturity. Please enlighten me with your wisdom. Seriously, since you obviously know so much tell me what Obama has done right and what needs to happen. And also explain to me how you know so much while you are in Canada

Last edited by lownslo600; 11-05-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:12 PM   #35
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I'm calling it. Electoral College tally will be as such:

Obama - 303
Romney - 235
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:34 PM   #36
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This is a good one. See how you match up to who you should vote for.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:16 AM   #37
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No sir, you got that all wrong. This is where I said you were messed up.
To be fair, you didn't exactly qualify how/why I was "messed up". Now that you've given some context, I can make more sense if it.

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Originally Posted by Niner1000RR View Post
You tried to make a case for "I think it's better to be pissing away money on figuring out how to become self sufficient than to piss it away finding better and better ways to destroy your neighbor."

So you're making a valid case for using tax payer funds to invest in US industry INSTEAD of wars.

Now, I disagree with tax payer funds being used to BET on unproven industries. But I understand your comment and respect it. That's something we can simply just not be on the same page. And it's ok.

But where you failed was that you don't recognize the fact that the one isn't being done OVER another. It's in addition too!

If you were to say, hey stop spending money on Iraq and invest it here INSTEAD, that's one thing. But that's not what's happening.
I largely agree with you... But that's a pretty idealistic scenario considering the political climate of the last few decades. Everyone wants to talk about being fiscal without actually doing the hard (and politically dangerous) work of cutting back.

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They just want to take MORE money from tax payers to fund BOTH!
Yes, it's much easier to get re-elected by borrowing from China and mortgaging the future away than it is to gut the various social programs/military. One way or another things will need to be paid for, it's frustrating that politicians are so spineless and keep pushing that burden on to future generations.

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And why is that? Think about the core of that question. So instead of making it MORE complex, lets simplify it!
Because running a complex economy/advanced country isn't simple. Can things be made "simpler", absolutely... but it's not easy. It's not often that you can please the liberal new yorker and the conservative texan at the same time.


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If it's part of the Military budget, fine. That's on them. But to just take tax payer dollars and GIVE it to these companies, even AFTER YOU WERE WARNED NOT TO because they were going to fail, then have them fail. That is unacceptable.

The government is outright GAMBLING with our money. That is NOT their job!
What exactly is the difference between the military gambling away your money or the department of energy? They're both part of the government, they're both stimulating huge swaths of the private sector in relatively the same way... Is it because you're used to the military gambling with your money?

The renewable energy sector is heavily subsidized in many countries, for the industry to have a chance in the US, it needs to have similar opportunities. No one says anything about the fact that the military needs obscene budgets so that they can "stay ahead", why is the goal of energy independence such a low priority?


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And many respected people disagree with that.

If government spending was the answer we should have the best economy in HISTORY right now! As we've spent more in the last 4 years and EVER!

FAIL! lol
Absolutely... but the people that believe the other theories aren't running the show. At the end of the day, there's no real way to know who's right. Lots of speculation, but no one really knows what would have happened without the stimulus. Or if kicking the economy in the nuts and drastically cutting things would have made the turn around much faster (I suspect not, but I'm no economist)

But had McCain won... Would things really have been that different? Do you honestly think he wouldn't have pushed through pretty much the same kind of stuff?

It didn't matter who was president, the economy was in a nose dive, due to years of abuse, greed and malinvestment. I'm highly skeptical this problem could have been fixed in 4 years with a properly functioning congress, the fact that they were so dysfunctional and hell bent on putting party politics first over the well being of Americans only compounded the issues.

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You're trying to compare a couple individual projects against BILLIONS spent on an unproven industry.

At what point do you say, ok this isn't going to work?

If the hoover damn proved to be a failure, would you build 5 more?
And you're trying to convey that all of those projects are failures. The fact remains that a very small percentage of those projects (and overall dollar figures) are in financial trouble. Most of them are doing alright considering the economic climate and that it's still a relatively new/niche market.

Energy prices aren't going down, it's only a matter of time before it's more cost effective to generate your own. Renewables are here to stay.

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Originally Posted by Niner1000RR View Post
You're once again going from one extreme to another.

Saying we shouldn't deplete our military isn't saying we should evaluate our budgets and spending.

But it's also not saying we should completely eliminate our about to invoke FEAR on our enemies.

Publicly announcing that we want to be a nuclear free nation while other nations are striving for building MORE nuclear weapons is ridiculous!

You must have a supreme threat of power over those whom oppose you. Doesn't mean you have to attack them, but they must second guess their intentions to attack you through your ability to respond.
I thought people loved debating in extremes in the politics section? I never said the military needed to be depleted, but the constant fear-mongering that goes on is disgusting, and truly disappointing that more Americans don't see right through it.

There have been 2 nukes dropped, those will be the last two ever dropped. We're never going to see two major nuclear powers go to war. Might be little conflicts, but there will never be an all out war. The stakes are too high, and everyone including the "crazy" middle east knows this.

China's plans are economic domination, not military domination. They're building the military capability to keep the US out of their backyard.

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Old 11-06-2012, 01:30 AM   #38
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The trend is that ppl don't respond well to smart***es that do nothing put throw out uninformed, rude, ignorant comments with nothing to back it up. Ppl in these threads have adult convos and debates. While you are just acting like an upset kid that throws a fit because he can't back up anything he says. Are you hungry? Eat a snicker's man, no one likes you when you act like a prick
You're the one that started with the condescension, and reminding people how awesome you and the work you do are... If the work you do is truly that important, you shouldn't have to remind people.

What specifically did you want me to back up? What parts were fabricated? Feel free to call me out, I don't have a problem backing up my sh*t. Just don't get your panties in a twist when I return the favor...

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Seriously, since you obviously know so much tell me what Obama has done right and what needs to happen.
What has he done right? Not that much. He has been an exceptionally good Wall Street bitch.

What needs to happen is to get money out of politics, and clean up the house/senate of all the hacks. That way the American people have a chance of not being ruled by the plutocracy. The sad truth is, it doesn't matter who is elected, nothing will change while those in charge are so blatantly corrupted by special interest money.

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And also explain to me how you know so much while you are in Canada
I know so much because I keep up on world affairs, you know that so called research thing you accused me of not doing. It probably doesn't hurt that I live 5 minutes away from the USA and that I can't get away from it if I tried. Then there's the fact that my mother's side of the family is American.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:16 AM   #39
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I largely agree with you... But that's a pretty idealistic scenario considering the political climate of the last few decades. Everyone wants to talk about being fiscal without actually doing the hard (and politically dangerous) work of cutting back.
Agreed, you mean like how Pres. Obama said he was going to fix medicare, and didn't?

And now Romney/Ryan pledge to fix it and social security?



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Yes, it's much easier to get re-elected by borrowing from China and mortgaging the future away than it is to gut the various social programs/military. One way or another things will need to be paid for, it's frustrating that politicians are so spineless and keep pushing that burden on to future generations.
You say that, yet you're not supporting the person who intends to stop it...



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Because running a complex economy/advanced country isn't simple. Can things be made "simpler", absolutely... but it's not easy. It's not often that you can please the liberal new yorker and the conservative texan at the same time.
No one ever said it would be easy!


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What exactly is the difference between the military gambling away your money or the department of energy? They're both part of the government, they're both stimulating huge swaths of the private sector in relatively the same way... Is it because you're used to the military gambling with your money?
One of them is REQUIRED by the constitution, the other is NOT.

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The renewable energy sector is heavily subsidized in many countries, for the industry to have a chance in the US, it needs to have similar opportunities. No one says anything about the fact that the military needs obscene budgets so that they can "stay ahead", why is the goal of energy independence such a low priority?
See the comment above.

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Absolutely... but the people that believe the other theories aren't running the show. At the end of the day, there's no real way to know who's right. Lots of speculation, but no one really knows what would have happened without the stimulus. Or if kicking the economy in the nuts and drastically cutting things would have made the turn around much faster (I suspect not, but I'm no economist)
You may not know what's right, but knowing what is wrong is pretty simple. If something is broke, do you just continue to drive it like that, or do you TRY to fix it?

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But had McCain won... Would things really have been that different? Do you honestly think he wouldn't have pushed through pretty much the same kind of stuff?
I don't think things would have been MUCH different, but I do think they would have been different. And we aren't voting for McCain. Romney will have things different!

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It didn't matter who was president, the economy was in a nose dive, due to years of abuse, greed and malinvestment. I'm highly skeptical this problem could have been fixed in 4 years with a properly functioning congress, the fact that they were so dysfunctional and hell bent on putting party politics first over the well being of Americans only compounded the issues.
So are you saying that you think the president was wrong? Are you saying he wasn't smart enough to know whether or not he could fix it?

As for Congress, have you read the federalist papers? Do you understand the intent of congress? Why it is divided the way it is?

Do you acknowledge the fact that it's the president that is suppose to find middle ground? That it's HIS job to bring people together, just like he said he would do. But instead he publicly criticizes them, SCOTUS, etc... You think that helps? Does that make them want to work with him more?

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And you're trying to convey that all of those projects are failures. The fact remains that a very small percentage of those projects (and overall dollar figures) are in financial trouble. Most of them are doing alright considering the economic climate and that it's still a relatively new/niche market.
Any back up to those claims, I've seen some REALLY high failure rate %'s both in quantity and dollars. Moreso in $$$.

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Energy prices aren't going down, it's only a matter of time before it's more cost effective to generate your own. Renewables are here to stay.
Again, NO PROOF! But you sure hope, huh? You do realize that this could take DECADES to perfect, right?

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I thought people loved debating in extremes in the politics section? I never said the military needed to be depleted, but the constant fear-mongering that goes on is disgusting, and truly disappointing that more Americans don't see right through it.
Cutting our nuclear arsenal, cutting DRASTIC amounts out of their annual budget during a time where the world is becoming more and more hostile towards us isn't depleting it?

Truth is fear mongering? Maybe we should look at some of the liberal adds and see what fear mongering is. Like Romney killing wives, then killing old people, pushing them off cliffs! You MUST be joking!

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There have been 2 nukes dropped, those will be the last two ever dropped. We're never going to see two major nuclear powers go to war. Might be little conflicts, but there will never be an all out war. The stakes are too high, and everyone including the "crazy" middle east knows this.
Really? And what stakes are too high, please explain in your infinite wisdom!
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:23 AM   #40
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OBAMA WINS!!!

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Old 11-07-2012, 12:30 AM   #41
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OBAMA WINS!!!

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Someone make a nation fail thread and put that ^ in it!


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Old 11-07-2012, 01:05 AM   #42
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Someone make a nation fail thread and put that ^ in it!


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Old 11-07-2012, 01:12 AM   #43
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that can only mean one thing... time to stock up on ammo.....
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:29 AM   #44
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Someone make a nation fail thread and put that ^ in it!


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Old 11-07-2012, 01:33 AM   #45
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Woooooooooooo!!!! Four more years, four more years!!!! Hahahaha, make the call romney, make the call hahahaha!!!!!
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:52 AM   #46
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Yeah 4 more years of an economy taking more of a ****, 4more years of more debt, and 4more years to more towards a socialist country. Great cant wait. I'm stocking up on ammo bc that's one of the first things that restrictions are going to hit. Maybe people are right 2012 might actually be happening.


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Old 11-07-2012, 01:52 AM   #47
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I'm guessing none of the probamas are planning on being independently wealthy.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:57 AM   #48
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Totally jelly I didn't get elected


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Old 11-07-2012, 01:58 AM   #49
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Yeah 4 more years of an economy taking more of a ****, 4more years of more debt, and 4more years to more towards a socialist country. Great cant wait. I'm stocking up on ammo bc that's one of the first things that restrictions are going to hit. Maybe people are right 2012 might actually be happening.


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You mad bro?? Haa haa!!!
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:05 AM   #50
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You keep laughing. You helped this.


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Old 11-07-2012, 02:08 AM   #51
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And I bet you made your decision based on the spoon fed news just like most of the others. That is if you even follow what's going on.


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Old 11-07-2012, 02:22 AM   #52
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^^ jeez, chill out bro. Your so mad you posted twice in a row.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:24 AM   #53
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:39 AM   #54
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Honda ftw!!!
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:06 AM   #55
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Certain things should not be discussed POLITICS is one of them kill this thread...
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:07 PM   #56
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Certain things should not be discussed POLITICS is one of them kill this thread...
Okay, what do you suggest we talk about in the "politics" section from now on?? Puppies, rainbows, unicorns, glitter, myspace.com????
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:47 PM   #57
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I think Obama won again
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:44 PM   #58
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Sad time for America. I hope we pull through these next 4 years


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Old 11-08-2012, 10:28 AM   #59
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Elections Have Consequences:

http://cbslasvegas.files.wordpress.c...owner.mp3?dl=1

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11...-22-employees/
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #60
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EAST CARBON, Carbon County A Utah coal company owned by a vocal critic of President Barack Obama has laid off 102 miners.

The layoffs at the West Ridge Mine are effective immediately, according to UtahAmerican Energy Inc., a subsidiary of Murray Energy Corp. They were announced in a short statement made public Thursday, two days after Obama won re-election.

The layoffs are necessary because of the president's "war on coal," the statement said. The slogan is one used frequently during the election by Murray Energy CEO Robert Murray, who was an ardent supporter of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

In its statement, UtahAmerican Energy blames the Obama administration for instituting policies that will close down "204 American coal-fired power plants by 2014" and for drastically reducing the market for coal.

In its statement, UtahAmerican Energy blames the Obama administration for instituting policies that will close down "204 American coal-fired power plants by 2014."
"There is nowhere to sell our coal, and when we can, the market prices are far lower," the statement said. "Without markets, there can be no coal mines and no coal jobs."

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=22890041&nid...cid=featured-4
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