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Old 11-07-2012, 03:57 AM   #1
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Accusations thrown out against Marc Marquez

http://motomatters.com/news/2012/11/...omething_.html

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The Moto2 paddock in Phillip Island was awash with rumors of cheating, and not for the first time. There have been accusations of cheating by Marc Marquez' Monlau Competicion team running around the paddock for most of the two years the young Spaniard has been racing in Moto2, accusations which MotoMatters.com has been reporting on since early this year.
The rumors in Australia centered round illegal manipulation of the spec HRC ECU fitted to all Moto2 machines. The German magazine Speedweek suggested that Marquez' team had been able to load an illegal map on to the ECU, capable of overriding the quickshifter function and preventing fuel from being cut when the quickshifter was used. This, Speedweek claimed citing an unnamed technician, is what the Monlau team had been doing, and this explained his superior acceleration. The advantage offered was that by not cutting the fuel injection, the air/fuel mixture was much better directly after a gear change, improving throttle pickup and helping to explain some of Marquez' advantage in acceleration. The fuel map, Speedweek alleged, would be loaded onto the ECU before the start of a race, and would then automatically erase itself when the engine was switched off.
MotoMatters.com contacted MotoGP Race Director Mike Webb for a response to these allegations. Webb prefaced his remarks saying that he had not read the allegations made in Speedweek, as he was not a German speaker, but was aware of the contents of the Speedweek report after being approached by the magazine's editor, Günther Wiesinger. The allegations, Webb told MotoMatters.com, were in part incorrect and in part irrelevant. The accusations that the software of the ECU was being overwritten and then wiped when the engine was switched off were wrong, Webb said. "I am confident in the information from my technical experts (including the ECU suppliers) that the alleged rewriting of the ECU software, and then magically wiping it again is not occurring," he told MotoMatters.com.
As to the quickshifter strategy Marquez' team is accused of employing, Webb said that it was not necessary to hack the ECU to achieve this. "Quick-shifters are 'free' [not defined as a spec part in the regulations - MM], they are deliberately not included in the official definition of the Moto2 engine, so the team is free to choose their own solution. Whether they choose to use the quick-shift strategies included in the ECU is up to them," Webb said. "In fact no manipulation of ECU software is necessary in order to use a non-Honda quick-shifter, which may or may not use the fuel cut strategies available in the ECU." The quickshifter used by Marquez' team had been submitted for approval to the Technical Director, HRC and engine supplier Geo Tech for inspection at the beginning of the season, as had the systems used by all the other teams. No irregularities had been found in any of the systems.
The accusations being leveled against Marquez and his team appear to consist of doing something that is completely legal. The Monlau team maintain that they prepare Marquez' bike completely within the Moto2 rulebook. When asked about the allegations, a spokesperson for the team told MotoMatters.com "the best they can do is to open the bike". No doubt Marquez' Catalunya CX Suter machine will be subject to a full inspection at the last race of the year this weekend at Valencia.
Source:
http://www.speedweek.ch/Moto2/news/29432/Schwerer-Verdacht-gegen-Marquez...

http://www.racing4fun.at/beitrag-detailansicht/datum/2012/10/31/marc-mar...


Seems a bit of a stretch to me.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:52 AM   #2
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It would tie in with that last corner surge he had at Philip Island, but could be a coincidence. The thing is, if it turns out to be legal, it still doesnt make Marquez the 'deserving' champion, he won because of the technical prowess of his team's mechanics not his pure riding ability. Not that he would be stripped of the title obviously since no rules were broken but in the eyes of many racing fans, he would not be seen as the true champion. Interesting to see how this turns out.......
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:09 AM   #3
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he won because of the technical prowess of his team's mechanics not his pure riding ability. Not that he would be stripped of the title obviously since no rules were broken but in the eyes of many racing fans, he would not be seen as the true champion. Interesting to see how this turns out.......
you could say that about a lot of champions though couldn't you?

take the moto gp this year, the factory yamaha is clearly a great bike, but it still takes a skilled rider to put it at the front. even vettel in F1, critics are always saying its the car winning the races, not him & he can't overtake, but look at the race last weekend. he started in the pits & still ended up 3rd.

good equipment still needs good pilots IMO
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:29 AM   #4
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you could say that about a lot of champions though couldn't you?

take the moto gp this year, the factory yamaha is clearly a great bike, but it still takes a skilled rider to put it at the front. even vettel in F1, critics are always saying its the car winning the races, not him & he can't overtake, but look at the race last weekend. he started in the pits & still ended up 3rd.

good equipment still needs good pilots IMO
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, the pilots are a huge part of the package. I mean in MotoGP/elite racing, the slightest technical difference can have subtstantial results. If your throttle pickup out of corners is 0.1 secs faster (because of a mechanical advantage), what do you think the net effect would be through an entire lap, and then 28 laps or so whilst keeping every other variable constant?
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Last edited by Rad Rage; 11-07-2012 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:37 AM   #5
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I think it is definitely a bit of both.

Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo, are some of the best skilled riders in the world capable of winning on many different brands, of various classes.

They also however have a fk tonne of money behind them to pay for the best pit teams, best gear, best equipment etc.

To say they win only because of this, or only because of that, is crazy talk.

I would love to see just once, a MotoGP race ridden on a 100% factory-stock and without a pit team screaming in the riders ears.

Also, nice find Sin, but I call bs... biaches just be jelly
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Rage View Post
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, the pilots are a huge part of the package. I mean in MotoGP/elite racing, the slightest technical difference can have subtstantial results. If your throttle pickup out of corners is 0.1 secs faster (because of a mechanical advantage), what do you think the net effect would be through an entire lap, and then 28 laps or so whilst keeping every other variable constant?
I know what you mean, we saw it with the seamless shift gearbox on the honda last year. I think a lot of people are willing to cry "cheat" as soon as anyone else has an advantage that they themselves haven't thought of first, this is where development comes from, competition from all of the manufacturers. there are so many variables in these things, some advantages can be a disadvantage too, like pedrosas weight for example.

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I think it is definitely a bit of both.

Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo, are some of the best skilled riders in the world capable of winning on many different brands, of various classes.

They also however have a fk tonne of money behind them to pay for the best pit teams, best gear, best equipment etc.

To say they win only because of this, or only because of that, is crazy talk.

I would love to see just once, a MotoGP race ridden on a 100% factory-stock and without a pit team screaming in the riders ears.

Also, nice find Sin, but I call bs... biaches just be jelly
a race with them all on the same equipment would be cool, but even then theres the weight factor (among other things), they don't all weigh the same so that would affect different aspects of the bike. I guess we'll never really know who's the best, unless some scientist can find a way of bringing all the greats back to their prime for one mega race lol
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:59 AM   #7
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The winning team is just that, a team.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:38 AM   #8
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Doesn't sound like he cheated at all to me, but had the right interpretation of the rules and the right team to take advantage of everything.

What's more interesting to me is Dorna's proposal for a standard ECU next year for all bikes and the fact that Honda was the first to refuse this. Makes me wonder if something else wasn't going on, even if this was all legit.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:29 AM   #9
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Doesn't sound like he cheated at all to me, but had the right interpretation of the rules and the right team to take advantage of everything.

What's more interesting to me is Dorna's proposal for a standard ECU next year for all bikes and the fact that Honda was the first to refuse this. Makes me wonder if something else wasn't going on, even if this was all legit.
None of the big manufacturers should want a standardized ECU. That means all of the testing they do for the championships will be pretty much useless. Honda isn't retarded. They know that a lot of R&D comes from and is provided by their racing programs. To cut that out of the mix could be devastating for any of the larger manufacturers.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #10
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The winning team is just that, a team.
I don't think I could have said it any better. Instead of complaining the other teams should realize they didn't bring their A game. There is no asterix on Marquez's championship.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:43 PM   #11
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None of the big manufacturers should want a standardized ECU. That means all of the testing they do for the championships will be pretty much useless. Honda isn't retarded. They know that a lot of R&D comes from and is provided by their racing programs. To cut that out of the mix could be devastating for any of the larger manufacturers.
Yeah, sure, I agree with you - I don't think there should be one ECU. It's just odd Honda was the first to shout about it and then this story comes out.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:23 PM   #12
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Yeah, sure, I agree with you - I don't think there should be one ECU. It's just odd Honda was the first to shout about it and then this story comes out.
I think there is a bit of confusion here. Moto2 has always had a standard ECU that was implemented from the beginning. Part of the transition from 250 to Moto2 was the lowering of costs and standardization of equipment through a fixed ECU that Dorna can control and monitor.

MotoGP currently doesn't have a fixed ECU and the Manufactures are fighting implementing a standard ECU on the MotoGP bikes.

There is not cooralation between the situation in Moto2 and the situation in MotoGP.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:23 AM   #13
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I know what you mean, we saw it with the seamless shift gearbox on the honda last year. I think a lot of people are willing to cry "cheat" as soon as anyone else has an advantage that they themselves haven't thought of first, this is where development comes from, competition from all of the manufacturers. there are so many variables in these things, some advantages can be a disadvantage too, like pedrosas weight for example.



a race with them all on the same equipment would be cool, but even then theres the weight factor (among other things), they don't all weigh the same so that would affect different aspects of the bike. I guess we'll never really know who's the best, unless some scientist can find a way of bringing all the greats back to their prime for one mega race lol
Yup, that would be great! Also the team aspect of the sport is commonly overlooked.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #14
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If the bike passed inspections and they found nothing then he's clean Imo, if they find ecu manipulation and not just a quick shifter adjustment then it is cheating, Good luck proving that now lol. Sounds like bs.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:27 PM   #15
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Just the description of the system being used sounds incredulous

" The fuel map, Speedweek alleged, would be loaded onto the ECU before the start of a race, and would then automatically erase itself when the engine was switched off."

I mean if the guys in the pits can write that kind of code they could be making a hell of a lot more money working elsewhere. I mean not only does the suggested code create new maps it also is controlling memory allocation on the ECU on both the initial write and re-write. Cause I'm sure the guys that designed the ECU didn't decide to double the amount of memory they needed for no apparent reason other than to have twice the memory!
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:16 PM   #16
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i always questioned how marquez was so much faster then EVERYONE on the straights when they all have the same engine. i understand he is small but there are guys just as small as him and he still manages to pass everyone quickly on the straights. how the hell did makeup like 15 spots in 3-4 corners at motegi????
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:03 PM   #17
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Just the description of the system being used sounds incredulous

" The fuel map, Speedweek alleged, would be loaded onto the ECU before the start of a race, and would then automatically erase itself when the engine was switched off."

I mean if the guys in the pits can write that kind of code they could be making a hell of a lot more money working elsewhere. I mean not only does the suggested code create new maps it also is controlling memory allocation on the ECU on both the initial write and re-write. Cause I'm sure the guys that designed the ECU didn't decide to double the amount of memory they needed for no apparent reason other than to have twice the memory!
I got a good laugh when I read it for the first time as well. They do all that from a sealed unit with out tampering with the current maps. These guys must be magicians.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:20 PM   #18
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i always questioned how marquez was so much faster then EVERYONE on the straights when they all have the same engine. i understand he is small but there are guys just as small as him and he still manages to pass everyone quickly on the straights. how the hell did makeup like 15 spots in 3-4 corners at motegi????
Confidence on not fully warmed tires. Everyone else is just tip-toeing around and also trying not to start a big crash in the first turn or two. So Marquez exploited that.
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