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Old 11-08-2012, 03:20 PM   #331
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Obama won the popular vote and electoral college. I am confused, what should change? Should the loser be given the office out of pity?
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:46 PM   #332
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Electorals need done away with. Comes down to the same 4 states every 4 years. POP vote is the winner. I am not complaining. You guys got who you wanted. Let's see how it pans out. I hear he is going to visit a couple of countries this week. Let's worry about everyone else instead of this country. Makes sense right? Let's keep that debt calculator going. Does Bush still get the blame for everything or does Obama get some blame on this go around? You can't spend your way out of debt, it doesn't work that way.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:19 PM   #333
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I agree. Pop vote makes the most sense.


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Old 11-08-2012, 05:10 PM   #334
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Obamas agenda; stop automatic spending cuts and stop tax increases. Makes sense to me :screwy:
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:41 PM   #335
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I still like Rick Santorum, even though I am an Atheist. He, along with RP seem like the only one whose in it for the right reasons, to try to fix this country, not for the fame or fortune.
Even though I know Jesus Christ as my savior, I couldn't agree with you more.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #336
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This is why I did not waste my time on the presidential election. Popular vote means nothing, that mean your vote means nothing.

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There is SOME merit to that but it's not completely true.

Besides, I believe Obama won the popular vote as well by almost 3 million. Check the facts.


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Old 11-08-2012, 09:55 PM   #337
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Where were all of you popular vote fans back when Gore won over G.W.?
For the record, I register independent because I prefer to vote for a person rather than a party. I'm not a fan of Obama, but I don't feel he has done nearly as bad as some try to say. Most of what he is blamed for he actually inherited. If McCain (who I voted for) were in office, Republicans would be making excuses for him. Everyone takes up for 'their guy' and blames the 'other guy'.


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Old 11-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #338
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Electorals need done away with. Comes down to the same 4 states every 4 years. POP vote is the winner. I am not complaining. You guys got who you wanted. Let's see how it pans out. I hear he is going to visit a couple of countries this week. Let's worry about everyone else instead of this country. Makes sense right? Let's keep that debt calculator going. Does Bush still get the blame for everything or does Obama get some blame on this go around? You can't spend your way out of debt, it doesn't work that way.
Bush got 2 terms and we see where that got us. Why not give the democrats a second shot at it too?

All bickering aside, the only thing we can do is hope that the House and Senators will be BIPARTISAN and actually work with him this term- this way he doesn't spend the majority of his time simply fighting the House as oppose to getting things done efficiently and effectively.


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Old 11-08-2012, 10:10 PM   #339
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ah so the Kenyan usurper won a 2nd term, i feel sorry for the USA & y'all not well off under Romney as well as they are both tools of the wall st banker scum.

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Old 11-08-2012, 10:47 PM   #340
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Bush got 2 terms and we see where that got us. Why not give the democrats a second shot at it too?

All bickering aside, the only thing we can do is hope that the House and Senators will be BIPARTISAN and actually work with him this term- this way he doesn't spend the majority of his time simply fighting the House as oppose to getting things done efficiently and effectively.


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I am not bickering. He won. Fine
Same result in house/senate. House should just approve everything and let's just see how it all pans out. It's not going to work and probably won't happen but I can Hope.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:56 PM   #341
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #342
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:42 PM   #343
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There is SOME merit to that but it's not completely true.

Besides, I believe Obama won the popular vote as well by almost 3 million. Check the facts.


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I never said he didn't. I just said that electoral vote needs to go. I know Obama still would have won.


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Old 11-09-2012, 09:34 AM   #344
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....y'all not well off under Romney as well as they are both tools of the wall st banker scum.

End. Of. F*cking. Thread.

Best post in here, by far!
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:18 AM   #345
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I disagree with putting an end to the electoral college. And it has to do with why it was instituted in the first place.

Lets say you have a disaster like we had in NJ with the hurricane. Those people endured a hell of a condition, they may not have the time or means to go and vote. Therefore their vote would not be reflected under the "popular vote", but under to electoral vote, their vote is still represented.

I understand and agree with the electoral college.

The format of the vote isn't the problem. It's the LIES and dependency on government that is the issue we face as a nation.

Don't change the system, share the facts, educate the voters and help them see and understand. That's how you fix the system.

If you an educate a person, and they understand, then they can make an accurate decision. It's the uninformed, or wrongly informed decisions that are the problem in this country.

With that said, it seems the nation is ok with losing liberties and have been ok with losing more and more every year. So I guess we will continue down this path until there is nothing left and we are rioting in the streets against the very things we KNEW we couldn't promise.

ie, GREECE!
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:55 AM   #346
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Sorry, but this I have to completely disagree with you. Even in the case of the hurricane hit places, those ppl's votes are only represented if their state's votes goes towards who they wanted it to. For everyone that wanted the other person, there vote doesn't count anymore. Every vote is counted anyways, so what is so hard about just going off of the number of votes? FACT is that there would be alotttttt more people voting if this was the case. I know many ppl that won't vote, b/c as they say "why waste my time, my vote doesn't count when I voted for Mr. X and Mr. Y won the state.
The current system is why certain areas get better treatment, funds, and attention b/c they are the "deciding batteground"
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:19 AM   #347
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Sorry, but this I have to completely disagree with you. Even in the case of the hurricane hit places, those ppl's votes are only represented if their state's votes goes towards who they wanted it to. For everyone that wanted the other person, there vote doesn't count anymore. Every vote is counted anyways, so what is so hard about just going off of the number of votes? FACT is that there would be alotttttt more people voting if this was the case. I know many ppl that won't vote, b/c as they say "why waste my time, my vote doesn't count when I voted for Mr. X and Mr. Y won the state.
The current system is why certain areas get better treatment, funds, and attention b/c they are the "deciding batteground"
Well you have to assume that when a disaster hits that it would affect both parties by the same % as the make up of a given district.

For example:

Lets say that NJ casts 3.378 million votes, of that 58% of them voted for Obama, 41% for Romney.

We have to assume that the storm didn't single out one particular voting group, but instead it affected a WIDE majority of the state. Therefore it would affect APPROXIMATELY 58% +/- Obama supporters and APPROXIMATELY 41% +/- Romney supporters.

Of course this would vary slightly in one direction or the other, but it should be somewhat close.

Now, with the electoral college system, the votes may not be counted but they ARE represented.

Now, lets say that you abolish the electoral system and you go with the majority vote, because you make the claim that one party had been hit harder than the other and as a result the electoral count was slanted in the wrong direction.

Well those same people who didn't vote, still won't vote. The difference is that now they aren't be represented at all even though it was a result of something beyond their doing or control.

We aren't a democracy, we are a republic.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:00 PM   #348
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You are going off numbers that have no validity though. If we are looking at it that way though, I would still disagree. If you look at it logistically with some socialology areas of a town/city are normally the same class being from the same class, tend to have the same views and will vote for the same parties. the storm hit certain areas of the states....not the whole state. So there is a potential for a storm only hitting richer communites that will tend to be repubs or poorer areas that will tend to be more democrats. End the end its all chance and tbh, the only way you would effective way to resolve that problem would to be to extend the voting deadline for those areas. If we got rid of the electoral college and ppl didn't vote...well thats there issue and frankly there choice should not count...period. If you can't take the time to vote than you have to right to complain. Fact is I don't want my state's votes to be determined by the mass majority b/c the mass majority of ppl these days are idiots and have no mind of their own to make a WISE decision. And if you think thats false then why is Obama still in office? Some ppl may have made a honest decision to vote for him but the majority of ppl acted as if they were voting for Prom King and Queen. The way ppl acted you would of though Obama was a part of the Backstreet boys, just a bunch of ppl groupies that want to be cool since there friends voted for him... I mean come on he was on MTV he must be cool
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:09 PM   #349
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You are going off numbers that have no validity though.
Why do they have no validity? The point is proven by the results of the popular vote.



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If we are looking at it that way though, I would still disagree.
fair enough :)



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If you look at it logistically with some socialology areas of a town/city are normally the same class being from the same class, tend to have the same views and will vote for the same parties. the storm hit certain areas of the states....not the whole state.
Guess that is a matter of opinion... Towns and cities have a variety of social make up. NO town votes all the same way.

So what you're trying to say is that republicans were hit worse by the disaster? By more than 600,000 people?

This in a state that hasn't voted a republican into office since Bush in 1988! That was 7 presidential elections ago.



As for higher income, Maryland has the nations highest average income and ALSO hasn't voted republican since 1988. NJ has the 3rd highest average and again hasn't voted a republican in since 1988. Connecticut is 4th which also hasn't voted republican since 1988. 5th highest average income is Mass, which hasn't voted republican into office since 1994.

Sorry but that whole income thing just doesn't hold true. Of the 10 states with the highest average income, only Alaska, NH and Virginia have voted in favor of a republican since 1988. That's 70% voting democrat of the 10 highest income states.



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So there is a potential for a storm only hitting richer communites that will tend to be repubs or poorer areas that will tend to be more democrats.
I would agree that some communities are going to be stronger towards one side. But most storms like this don't affect communities. They affect entire REGIONS. Being in Florida, we deal with hurricanes a LOT and they have a WIDE affect on regions. They don't isolate a community.



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End the end its all chance and tbh, the only way you would effective way to resolve that problem would to be to extend the voting deadline for those areas.
That I would agree with.



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Fact is I don't want my state's votes to be determined by the mass majority b/c the mass majority of ppl these days are idiots and have no mind of their own to make a WISE decision. And if you think thats false then why is Obama still in office?
I agree with this 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might say that they aren't idiots though, but uninformed. BADLY uninformed!


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Some ppl may have made a honest decision to vote for him but the majority of ppl acted as if they were voting for Prom King and Queen. The way ppl acted you would of though Obama was a part of the Backstreet boys, just a bunch of ppl groupies that want to be cool since there friends voted for him... I mean come on he was on MTV he must be cool
LOL again we agree here! HAHAHA

But how would it have been any different without the electoral vote? Obama won the popular vote as well. So what would have been different?



Good conversation though!
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:32 PM   #350
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What I meant about your numbers not being valid is that you just guestimated on those percentages of voters that were hit by the storm, since I don't think there has been a study to see that makeup of the voters that were hit.

Now with the storm hitting certain areas this is what I mean. Lets take where I live for example..AL. We have the main city "Huntsville" which is broken up into different sections and we have alot of connecting counties that might as well be apart of it. North Huntsville is generally lower income, South Huntsville higher income. Harvest is middle income, toney is lower to middle income and so on. Although there will be some variance in the voting trend, normally these areas have trends of who those community ppl will vote for. They know each other, kids go to school, church and the fact is that ppl go to the extreme to fit it and be accepted so they want to do what everyone else does so its not always income based but income is a good factor to look at since the richer older (and just older in general) vote republican. Guy down the street buys a RV, you buy an RV to fit in...He tells you he is voting for Mr. X and you say you know what I think I will too. When we got hit by the tornadoes 2 years ago, it only hit certain parts of the counties and certain parts of the city...not the wholeeeeee area. So my point is that storms generally hit the hardest in more specific areas...obviously everyone in those states that got hit didn't get flooded. So it is hard to say what party got the worse end of the stick you see what I mean.


Well not all are idiots, but most. I have yet to meet a Obama supporter besides jbeck that can back up there reasons for the way they voted besides by something their friend told them at most.

For this election, yah he won on both terms. But this is one of those things that I think just need to change just because I believe it promotes better equality for voters. On top of that it may help give 3rd party ppl a better chance b/c if right now if you vote for 3rd party your vote definitely doesn't count.

Definitely a good convo. We normally always agree so you got me with your opinion on this but thats cool your still good in my book
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:52 PM   #351
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What I meant about your numbers not being valid is that you just guestimated on those percentages of voters that were hit by the storm, since I don't think there has been a study to see that makeup of the voters that were hit.
And they may never be done.

But the premise of the storm swinging the vote for Obama is just... well... ;) lol

Like I said, that state hasn't voted republican since 1988. But you think it was a disaster that swing it liberal this time?

The thought that the hurricane affected and resulted in 600,000 LESS republican votes than democrat votes is kind of nuts... lol


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Now with the storm hitting certain areas this is what I mean. Lets take where I live for example..AL. We have the main city "Huntsville" which is broken up into different sections and we have alot of connecting counties that might as well be apart of it. North Huntsville is generally lower income, South Huntsville higher income. Harvest is middle income, toney is lower to middle income and so on. Although there will be some variance in the voting trend, normally these areas have trends of who those community ppl will vote for. They know each other, kids go to school, church and the fact is that ppl go to the extreme to fit it and be accepted so they want to do what everyone else does so its not always income based but income is a good factor to look at since the richer older (and just older in general) vote republican. Guy down the street buys a RV, you buy an RV to fit in...He tells you he is voting for Mr. X and you say you know what I think I will too. When we got hit by the tornadoes 2 years ago, it only hit certain parts of the counties and certain parts of the city...not the wholeeeeee area. So my point is that storms generally hit the hardest in more specific areas...obviously everyone in those states that got hit didn't get flooded. So it is hard to say what party got the worse end of the stick you see what I mean.
Again you got into income base, did you see that 9 of the 10 states with the highest average income vote liberal every single time? And 7 out of 10 have voted liberal every time since 1988?


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Well not all are idiots, but most. I have yet to meet a Obama supporter besides jbeck that can back up there reasons for the way they voted besides by something their friend told them at most.
Well I would argue he doesn't have back up. He tend to just post a bunch of nonsense and completely IGNORES facts.

lol but otherwise I agree with ya ;)



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For this election, yah he won on both terms. But this is one of those things that I think just need to change just because I believe it promotes better equality for voters. On top of that it may help give 3rd party ppl a better chance b/c if right now if you vote for 3rd party your vote definitely doesn't count.
Have you ever read the details on the electoral college and why they set it up the way they did? There's some interesting readings. It's Federalist #68

But now I would agree it would change the process of the 3rd party and help them a lot more.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:56 PM   #352
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Oh I highly doubt the storm did helped Obama won, but you were using that as a reason of why the electoral college is good...I was using my example to show that even under a storm I don't think the college helps. I don't keep up with what states favor which parties b/c honestly I think the party system is a joke. I just vote for who I think can do a better job regardless of their party.

Basing party choices off of income isn't always right, but normally overall its a good base to look at things. But not including ppl like myself, factors like where you live, income, race, and education are big factors that can influence anything in a person even party choice or lack there of. I'm looking at it from a sociology mind frame. Now I will admit things are changing, I've never seen so many wealthy ppl support higher taxes on themselves (which I applaud them caring for the overall greater good). But the whole point of all of that was to show ppl in specific areas tend to vote the same and unless the storm hit an ENTIRE city and county equally you can't really say that the electoral college helps in this scenario

Now jbeck may not always have the correct info, but at least he has info that didn't come from facebook or his buddy. I mean I got into it with this girl I knew and she listed off some stuff that was the reason she voted for him, I explained that all that info was either incorrect or inaccurate and the only come back she had was "Well Obama won...4 more years #runtelldat #proudafricanamerican #whyyoumad so get over it......................like I said IDIOTS. I have yet to find one person that can explain why Obama isn't in jail when he released classified info on the Stuxnet virus or on the Seal team six. They act like its no big deal. Or they give credit to him for bin Laden's death even though what did he actually do besides tell them to find him (after bush started the pursuit) and then he said to start the raid. Or how Obamacare has helped them save a few bucks but yet its already causing ppl to not be able to find full time work.

I'm sure I prob read over it somepoint in HS but I def don't remember it...I'll check it out. I don't doubt there are some advantages to doing it that way but I don't agree with just taking the mass majority...feels like it takes away from the smaller groups.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:27 PM   #353
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I am not bickering. He won. Fine
Same result in house/senate. House should just approve everything and let's just see how it all pans out. It's not going to work and probably won't happen but I can Hope.
It is going to pan out so bad, I'm trying to figure out where to put my savings.

Realestate seems good, but give obama three years to declare private property ownership illegal!
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:34 PM   #354
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It is going to pan out so bad, I'm trying to figure out where to put my savings.

Realestate seems good, but give obama three years to declare private property ownership illegal!

I'd say buy stock in Remington and Smith and Weason, I bet their stocks are blowing up right now
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:08 PM   #355
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I'd say buy stock in Remington and Smith and Weason, I bet their stocks are blowing up right now
Using foreign brokers through a foreign address...
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