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Old 12-17-2012, 11:40 AM   #1
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Why isn't this a tragedy?

Obama runs to a school and promises to do everything in hos power to stop this kind of thing from happening again. Empty promises from a puppet figure head.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/...tml?hpt=hp_bn2

We allow so many other things to happen. I agree that we need to ban some weapons, and help clean up the mess that WE left behind. Kids are being killed and dismembered every single day by mines.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:51 AM   #2
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Unfortunate situation indeed but the world does not care
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:54 AM   #3
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People have been killing people since we came into existence. Weapons just makes it easier.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:58 AM   #4
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Simple. Because it didn't happen in the US. The shootings here just help Obama's gun control agenda. First it's semi auto's then it's all guns in public hands. If that doesn't work then it's all ammo bigger than what's required for a pump action air pistol.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:02 PM   #5
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It's unfortunate but honestly that's not OUR country.. So I hate to say but that is their governments problem.. They have their own government which should handle that..

We shouldn't be there in the first place. And it states that its not our mines.. If it was different story but again IMO out country needs to take care of us once all of our issues are fixed then we can focus on others but our place is heading down the sh**ter so fast I feel that will be us in 30 years.. And trust me watching some show about a jail on Porto Rico last night where its so bad the inmates literally run the lots as authority and they don't even get water or food to feed everyone on top of there being lots where if you steal or harm an inmate you literally get left to no food unless which they don't due to who ever helps being thrown out of the cells that feed you and they live off of the jails trash..
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:35 PM   #6
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I understand your theory but the sad part is older US governments got involved in so many calamity across the universe and when they left such countries to take care of themselves they left them is worse shape than when they got involved in the first place

Do you think Iraq is in a better situation today than it was in the 90's before the Gulf war
Look at how much the world's economy simply fell apart after the Gulf war ended thanks to Bush and the lies of so called weapons of mass destruction even though such weapons were used against the Kurds while the world stood watching at the time the mass killings and nothing was done .

if the high powers iof this world let every country take care of its own problems and not supply them with weapons left and right the world might be a more peaceful place to live in .
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:01 PM   #7
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It's unfortunate but honestly that's not OUR country.. So I hate to say but that is their governments problem.. They have their own government which should handle that..
Who set up their government? Who blew the hell out of their country for revenge? Who helped put the Taliban in place before that in order to push its own foreign policy?
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:01 PM   #8
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But Moe if they don't start all these proxie wars than where are the weapons manufactures going to make there money. Also how else do you bankrupt and pillage a strong wealthy countie if there were no wars.

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Old 12-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #9
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Again its sad I know but what about the kid down the street from me who was stabbed and bled to death in a park by 2 gangsters reppin their turf (when their turf was in another county) just to move up in a gang when none of these kids had ties to any gang but wouldn't stand and give up their wallets and pushed around... All he got was a link in link in link local news only...


Or my buddy what was jumped and nearly beat to death because his family couldn't afford it and had to move to a "rougher" part of the neighbor hood and they beat him on his way to school because he had his head phones in and ignored or didn't hear them and they took it as disrespect and beat him and took his **** and left him for dead.. 5 25 to 30 year olds on a 17 year old scronny kid in HS...

And I life in a "nice" part of OC... So take into account Detroit or NYC and other places..

If you have a failing marriage and on the brink of devorce and bankrupsy and there is the same goin on with someone down the street you going to fix their marriage before yours so "their kids" don't suffer a devorce before fixing your own failing marriage

Or to help a guy getting his a** beat on the corner before and while your friend or family member is getting the same thing done in front of you.. But your logic is well I have that guy the bag beating the other so I'm obligated to fix that first...

Your justyfying one mistake from another yea I agree none of that should be going on and we shouldn't be or have done any of that in the first place but commuting one mistake to fix another or save face while neglecting internal issues at hand isn't going to solve anything but turn the tables and then but us the "helpers" into the in need for help.

And the only reason this topic came up and what GS complaining about being not recognized is exactly what its doing it was recognized just not to the degree of in our boarders but this is still being seen and reported on what about Africa villages bein pillaged and raped as we speak where is there quick news letter or neighboring countries with the same issues at hand since before we got there??


It's good we're wanting to help but you need to fix your problems before you fix others because if you have your hands in too many pots and give 5% here and there than 100% then 100% you end up fixing nothing but making a small dent in a huge problem than any actual solutions to anything.

Almost like saying doing 10 of 900 problems of your math homework every night or not doing it at all and only doing your science home work will get you an A in math class.. It doesn't work that way.. It's sad I agree but skipping one problem to adress another especially when it doesn't effect you is going to creat more issues..

Especially when it becomes your problem and you get your wish and that becomes local news and the mass murder of your family doesn't get covered... Then what are you going to rant and rave about how your family gets no dignity and how some random children if god knows where are on the news but your US citizen family are swept under the rug.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:52 PM   #10
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But Moe if they don't start all these proxie wars than where are the weapons manufactures going to make there money. Also how else do you bankrupt and pillage a strong wealthy countie if there were no wars.

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I approve this theory as well the sad part is even in Goverments Karma is a bitch when he comes to collect BUT the governments do not pay we the people are the ones that have to deal with a bounced check
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:05 PM   #11
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You are correct they have to work on fixing their own inner society problems first that is common sense but you know what there is not one government on this planet that operates with the simple bases of that word why cause they simply do not give a rats buttocks

If everything is hunky Dora people will riot against them when their simple demands of Freedom , Peace , justice are not met so they create all this havoc to make you think they are working hard to fix them & such havoc also will stop you in your tracks from taking action against them why cause the common man is simply worried about his daily meal and the source of income to feed and fend for his family

Find me one world leader that was raised in poverty but died in poverty there is none every single one of those bastards died richer than ever and his people lived like dirt during his term and still living like dirt after his death hell some of them do not eve have enough dirt to eat
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:08 PM   #12
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It's unfortunate but honestly that's not OUR country.. So I hate to say but that is their governments problem.. They have their own government which should handle that..
Really, we put them there, we should clean them up. This is a people problem, not a country problem.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:10 PM   #13
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Oh I agree 100% politics is simplistic greed and self wellness. It has nothing to do with or for its people its all personal gain. I don't nor will ever support politics. The idea works but the people don't.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:15 PM   #14
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Really, we put them there, we should clean them up. This is a people problem, not a country problem.
We put what there? We tried to make allies and squash a beef so we have them materials they chose to be irresponsible. And what else do you think we do over there we expose of IED and are trying to run out failing miserably might I add and they keep setting and planting them.. Every 2 mines we take out they add 5 more.

If you give me a bat for Christmas and I go kill a neighborhood with it you should be held responsible for that event..? And the clean up and grief?

You guys are raising hell and only seeing a corner of the picture.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:42 PM   #15
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This subject makes me play this song (Brothers in Arms ) a classic by Dire Straits

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Old 12-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #16
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These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
Your valleys and your farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arm

Through these fields of destruction
Baptism of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line on your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:37 PM   #17
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Look at how much the world's economy simply fell apart after the Gulf war ended thanks to Bush and the lies of so called weapons of mass destruction even though such weapons were used against the Kurds while the world stood watching at the time the mass killings and nothing was done .
Really? We are still blaming Bush?

Probably shouldn't get into this here, but I am YET to see anyone explain what it was that Bush did to destroy our economy... Maybe you could help?

On the war, lets not forget that Bush requested and received congressional approval via the War Powers Act. And both parties were briefed of the same intelligence that the president received. And BOTH parties stood up and demanded action against Saddam.

Lets not also forget that they HAVE determined that WMD were in Iraq. Some of this was discovered after the wikileaks release.

But I guess we shouldn't bring any of that up, huh? ;)

lol
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #18
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Bush was the first president to start two wars and lower taxes. Also the everyone should own a home policy drove the housing market to collapse. Banks giving sub prime mortgages to people who can't afford them. With that chemistry you get a recession.

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Old 12-17-2012, 04:04 PM   #19
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Saddam never did anything without asking the Americans first. So he was no threat to America no country really is. But now a days a small group of terrorists are a bigger threat to a nation than other countries.

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Old 12-17-2012, 04:07 PM   #20
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Bush was the first president to start two wars and lower taxes. Also the everyone should own a home policy drove the housing market to collapse. Banks giving sub prime mortgages to people who can't afford them. With that chemistry you get a recession.

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Lets think about this.

How many wars has Obama started? Oh wait he doesn't call them wars. Well if that applies to republicans like it applies to democrats then Bush didn't either.

Lower taxes, yea and? It increased revenue, is that a bad thing?

Banks and sub-prime mortgage, do you know who's fault that is and where that came about? Hint: July 1999 and Bush wasn't the one who repealed that law...

funny how in the 20's we allowed banks and investments to co-mingle which led us to the great depression, so legislators passed laws to prevent that from ever happening again. Then in 1999 a president repeals that law (Glass-Steagall Act) and less than 8 years later we have a the worst collapse since the law was passed and passed to prevent that very thing from happening...

Should we not have expected it to happen? Guess what... We should have listened when Bush appealed to congress to do something, and for some 4-6 years they refused.

oops...
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #21
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Saddam never did anything without asking the Americans first. So he was no threat to America no country really is. But now a days a small group of terrorists are a bigger threat to a nation than other countries.

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I don't disagree with that one bit, I don't disagree with the argument that should shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq. Just stating the fact that BOTH parties approved the war. Both parties were briefed and stood up for it, until it wasn't popular anymore, then they ran for the woods.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:12 PM   #22
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Really? We are still blaming Bush?

Probably shouldn't get into this here, but I am YET to see anyone explain what it was that Bush did to destroy our economy... Maybe you could help?

On the war, lets not forget that Bush requested and received congressional approval via the War Powers Act. And both parties were briefed of the same intelligence that the president received. And BOTH parties stood up and demanded action against Saddam.

Lets not also forget that they HAVE determined that WMD were in Iraq. Some of this was discovered after the wikileaks release.

But I guess we shouldn't bring any of that up, huh? ;)

lol
Let me start by saying we have to agree to disagree ok

I got a question for you how come no WMD were found and if any of it was found how come we did not see any reports of that what so ever & if Iraq had any who supplied them with it to begin is and why ( war against Iran is why )

If the president is not the one to blame who is to blame the intelligence agencies
Who supplied wrong reports or who you tell me the commander in chief is the one responsible he is the big boss so to speak Bush JR had to finish what his dad count not accomplish are the Iraqis any better today I am sure you will say yes

Was the whole war worth it and if that is the case might as well invade every country that has a dictator in power in order to provide them with what they call Democrcy even though those countries do not want any of it and want to do things their own way but NO they do not know what is good for them this government does apparently thanks for your time and your comments
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:12 PM   #23
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Now, my issue... Ok, so I just defended Bush because he was granted the declaration of war on Iraq, only defending the law. Not the reasoning or the cause. Just the facts.

But many argue, I might even... that the war in Afghanistan was the just war. However, I believe Bush should be criticized for THIS war, whether I approve of it or not. Because he did NOT request a declaration of war for this military action. Just or not it was illegal!

Which is the same thing Obama has done what 5 times now?

Bush deserves criticism (as well as Obama) but lets get things straight.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:16 PM   #24
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I know the house and the senate approved the war you now why cause they had no choice if any one of them would have voted against it he would have lost his seat when it was due for elections it's that simple and you like you stated when crap hit the wall they took running like they had nothing to do with the decision of war
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:19 PM   #25
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Let me start by saying we have to agree to disagree ok
lol Agreed! :)


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I got a question for you how come no WMD were found and if any of it was found how come we did not see any reports of that what so ever & if Iraq had any who supplied them with it to begin is and why ( war against Iran is why )
It was found, the question is why wasn't it ever publicly announced. I have read reports from 2009 and 2010 that came from the wikileaks dump about rockets found with chemicals in that. Some nerve gas, dust, all kinds of sick stuff. Even read a testimony of a soldier.

I haven't read them in a long time, but I'm sure if you really wanted to know, a simple google search would turn some of these up probably pretty simply...

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If the president is not the one to blame who is to blame the intelligence agencies
I'm not saying he doesn't deserve blame, the question is blame for what?

The evidence has shown WMD were found. I ask you, is that the determining factor? So what, we found them. Who cares! What did that have to do with us? We were supposed to be retaliating for 9/11. Or so I thought...

So if I prove to you that government reports show that we did in fact find WMD's, do you say, "oh ok, I won't blame Bush now" (?)

I think not, so my issue is with WHAT we are placing blame for. If it was for the fact that we were going to war with someone for some OTHER reason, the the president deserves blame for the request, but congress deserves blame (both parties) for granting the request!!!

No one has clean hands in this.

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Who supplied wrong reports or who you tell me the commander in chief is the one responsible he is the big boss so to speak Bush JR had to finish what his dad count not accomplish are the Iraqis any better today I am sure you will say yes
Not saying I don't agree with this, but read my comment above.

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Was the whole war worth it and if that is the case might as well invade every country that has a dictator in power in order to provide them with what they call Democrcy even though those countries do not want any of it and want to do things their own way but NO they do not know what is good for them this government does apparently thanks for your time and your comments
Again, read above.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #26
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I know the house and the senate approved the war you now why cause they had no choice if any one of them would have voted against it he would have lost his seat when it was due for elections it's that simple and you like you stated when crap hit the wall they took running like they had nothing to do with the decision of war
I'm sorry but you're completely wrong there, that is a scapegoat excuse!

They HAD to? Really! C'mon! then that's all the more reason that they deserve just as much blame as the rest of them.

Lets say for a moment that you're right, um... Do you remember the congressional make up when the declaration of war was granted? Do you remember the next election cycle and what happened?
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #27
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I got this question for you do you think supporting an aggressor to do what ever he wants to his country & people is ok ? But as soon as that so called aggressor turns his back on you all bets are off . Then when a new regime comes to the surface guess what hanky lanky business occurs behind doors and a price is paid right off that bat otherwise that new regime got no prayer in the mean time the people of such country are the ones that continue to suffer wether it's before the aggressor or after .
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:39 PM   #28
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I got this question for you do you think supporting an aggressor to do what ever he wants to his country & people is ok ? But as soon as that so called aggressor turns his back on you all bets are off . Then when a new regime comes to the surface guess what hanky lanky business occurs behind doors and a price is paid right off that bat otherwise that new regime got no prayer in the mean time the people of such country are the ones that continue to suffer wether it's before the aggressor or after .
I would have thought by my previous responses you could have guessed my answer on a question like this.

No, I don't! I don't think it's our place to CHOSE what is right for another nation. Especially not publicly, regardless of their actions.

Do I think that we should allow another Hilter? No... But, I think we have the means and the ability to handle things like this without doing so in the manner that we have in recent history.

It is NOT our duty to dictate to anyone how to live their lives!
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:03 PM   #29
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I really wish that the politicians and the decision makers in this country would follow your
Logical thinking but I guess world strategy dictates the path of the decision making and it's final outcome regardless .
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #30
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I really wish that the politicians and the decision makers in this country would follow your
Logical thinking but I guess world strategy dictates the path of the decision making and it's final outcome regardless .
Politicians decisions are influenced my media. If the media isn't doing a story on something, the public doesn't know, therefore the politicians and decision makers need not take a stand on it.


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