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Old 12-18-2012, 05:55 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Inkslingerxx View Post
I would just like to point out once again that using the argument that knives will not inflict as much damage as guns is a completley ridiculous argument. A bomb will be the psychos next choice and are far more devastating than any gun used in any of these tragedies.
Yes, guns DO cause more damage then knives. Don't kid yourself by saying otherwise. Unarmed, would you rather fight a person who has a knife or a gun? Thank you.

Bombs are not as easily to contruct as you make it sound to be. You would need to be very knowledgable in chemical compounds to even know where to begin. Throwing stuff together from Walmart is a very nice try as an argument, but it makes very little sense. If there are so many ways to kill people, why do we see a prevalence in gun deaths?

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-spoons and forks: can be used to kill directly or indirectly
-All insecticides and cleaning materials
-Stairs
-Doctors
-All vehicles
-Rocks, tree branches
-Water
-everything on "1000 ways to die"

So lets play this scenario out. First we ban guns. Then ppl still die. Ppl's response "oh wow that didn't work, lets ban something else, it must be all those video games". Next ban video games. More ppl die. Lets ban something else. and so on and so on. Why b/c everyone doesn't want to get down to the truth.
Once again. Missing the point. My point is how easily guns are accessible as murder weapons....not how many ways a person can die. People don't go into a mall throwing water, rocks, and tree branches to kill a person. I agree with you that we need to look at the individual. But If his mother didn't have those guns, I'd doubt that kid would get very far.


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material of war? You also know that they are used for hunting as well right? recreation? Self defense?

What's an assault rifle?

Disarming the public won't prevent the murderer from murdering, it'll only ensure that the patrons won't have the means to stop the murderer!
Yes! Guns were created for war! Not hunting or recreation.
Hunting = fun. Recreation = fun. Self denfense = very rarely the case.
Would you put entertainment over safety?
What is an assualt riffle? You tell me, you seem to be an expert.

Disarming the public won't prevent the murderer from murdering? How would you know? In over 236 years of American Independence, we've never tried! Would it hurt to give it a chance?
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:30 PM   #302
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That would be a step in the right direction, but lets take it a step further.

There are more than 100,000 public schools in this nation. Plus public Pre-k schools, state universities and community colleges that are all public. So that's now WELL over 100,000 schools you would have to do this for.

Next, how many armed guards? 1 per school? 1 per door? a % of the students? so many per square feet?

Look at the size of some of the community colleges or high schools here in Florida. It can take you 15 minutes to walk from one side to another. those 206 people were gone before a cop could have walked from one side of our typical school to the other.

So how many would we need? And what kind of a shift rotation? Our schools are open longer than 8 hours. So you'd be looking at 2 shifts per day, per station.

Just for 2 cops, working 1 shift per K-12, not including pre-k and higher education you're talking more than 7 billion dollars, just in salary. I hate to say it because it's for the safety of our children, but realistically, we still have to pay for it.

How? We can't even pay for our current obligations... So what are we going to give up? I know, it's for our kids, we'd be willing to give up everything, that's what we would all say, right?

Until the time comes to make the cuts, then it's well you give up that, this is too important. Then the battle begins over what to give up. It's the endless battle.

It'll never happen.

Lets now say for a second it did, we said screw it, borrow it from China, it's a worthy cause! DONE!

Now what? People a murder at the public park, the grocery store, the movie theater, now what? Armed guards EVERYWHERE???

Is that really the answer? is that even a realistic conversation?
Oh I get your point, just saying it works here and has stopped incidents.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:43 PM   #303
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In the case of the school shooting.

No guns would more than likely not have stopped the incident bun an armed teacher would have. The more armed teachers the faster the suspect would have been stopped and the less loss.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:51 PM   #304
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Yes, guns DO cause more damage then knives. Don't kid yourself by saying otherwise. Unarmed, would you rather fight a person who has a knife or a gun? Thank you.

Bombs are not as easily to contruct as you make it sound to be. You would need to be very knowledgable in chemical compounds to even know where to begin. Throwing stuff together from Walmart is a very nice try as an argument, but it makes very little sense. If there are so many ways to kill people, why do we see a prevalence in gun deaths?



Once again. Missing the point. My point is how easily guns are accessible as murder weapons....not how many ways a person can die. People don't go into a mall throwing water, rocks, and tree branches to kill a person. I agree with you that we need to look at the individual. But If his mother didn't have those guns, I'd doubt that kid would get very far.




Yes! Guns were created for war! Not hunting or recreation.
Hunting = fun. Recreation = fun. Self denfense = very rarely the case.
Would you put entertainment over safety?
What is an assualt riffle? You tell me, you seem to be an expert.

Disarming the public won't prevent the murderer from murdering? How would you know? In over 236 years of American Independence, we've never tried! Would it hurt to give it a chance?

Have you done any research into anything you said? So gun vs knife. Knife has unlimited ammo, no chance for it to jam (preventing further death aka theater shooting). Next lets compare one bullet shot vs one knife cut. How many seconds do you think it takes to slit someones throat? How many seconds do you think it would have taken that kid to slice 28 kids throats seeing as they have no chance to defend themselves? Next a bullet norm goes in and out and is small so more compact injury. Average knife blade is what inch wide by 3-4 long. So the injury is going to be more spread out b/c more body parts are hit (in a chest strike for instance). Also, how many major arteries are in the body? How small of a cut do you think it takes for someone to bled to death?

Battle: gun vs knife. Are we talking close combat? if so I will take fighting someone with a gun. Why? Look at vids of disarming a man with a gun compared to a knife. I can grab the gun anywway I want to disarm, cant do that with a knife. He has to aim directly at you to shoot you.. but a blade can cut you from many angles.

Next making bombs. I know you have no knowledge of this by your response. So back 15 years ago while I was in middle school they came out with a website called "Anarchy's Cookbook" If you have ever heard of that you wouldn't say bombs are hard to make....we aren't talking about someone making a bomb big enough to take out a city. How many components are in a pipe bomb? Heck, you know what Napalm essentially is? Kerosene and styrofoam that are left to dissolve and mix. He could of easily burned that many ppl alive. But lets say bombs are hard to make....look at the ppl doing this. They may be crazy but they are not idiots. We have kids hacking gov't networks, kids are smarter these days then we were as kids.

You mention the mother but you lost the point. If she was responsible, A)she would not have bought a $1000 gun for her crazy kid that was already showing issues. B) had the guns in a gun safe C)gotten the kid some mental help D) not spent all her time at the bar

Kids can't normally afford $1000 guns. Heck I'm single no kids, good job and still cant afford one. So once again bad parents.

I'm a realist , if i thought it WOULD help I wold be all for it. But a slight knowledge of history and common sense will tell you it won't. Plus for alot of ppl it gets down to the gov't trying to take away our right. think thats funny or I'm crazy? Why did New York make soft drinks bigger than 32oz illegal? I mean really, how many things are we going to let the gov't take away from us or do for us. I'm adult if I want a cookie before dinner its my choice, if I want a 125oz Redbull then its my choice. The gov't is supposed to be here to serve the public but yet no elected official is doing what the ppl that voted for them want...they are doing their own agenda. Gov of Washington is trying to make pot illegal again even though the citizens said they wanted it legal.....see where I'm going? you let them take one thing away and its a downward spiral. I'm sorry but I don't feel that millions of intelligent and educated adults should have to pay for some DA parents that should have never had kids. And we have tried it. Look at new york. Look at the murders they still have and then look at the increase in knife murders too. If people are head strong on doing these things, they are going to do them
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:09 PM   #305
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Firearms, shooting, and collecting are a way of life for me. Just as much as riding and racing motorcycles are. How would some of you feel if a flaming liberal tried to take away your right to own and ride your motorcycles? So quick to trample on others rights, wait till one of your passions is at stake.

I'm disgusted with some of you.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:11 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzle View Post
Yes, guns DO cause more damage then knives. Don't kid yourself by saying otherwise. Unarmed, would you rather fight a person who has a knife or a gun? Thank you.

Bombs are not as easily to contruct as you make it sound to be. You would need to be very knowledgable in chemical compounds to even know where to begin. Throwing stuff together from Walmart is a very nice try as an argument, but it makes very little sense. If there are so many ways to kill people, why do we see a prevalence in gun deaths?



Once again. Missing the point. My point is how easily guns are accessible as murder weapons....not how many ways a person can die. People don't go into a mall throwing water, rocks, and tree branches to kill a person. I agree with you that we need to look at the individual. But If his mother didn't have those guns, I'd doubt that kid would get very far.




Yes! Guns were created for war! Not hunting or recreation.
Hunting = fun. Recreation = fun. Self denfense = very rarely the case.
Would you put entertainment over safety?
What is an assualt riffle? You tell me, you seem to be an expert.

Disarming the public won't prevent the murderer from murdering? How would you know? In over 236 years of American Independence, we've never tried! Would it hurt to give it a chance?
Just because they were created for war, doesn't automatically make them bad things. Perhaps we should also ban slinkys and silly putty? they were created as a result or war.

Banning all guns isn't a good idea. Looking critically at the use of certain types of weapon and deciding if it's actually useful for that purpose is.

Hell, even just forcing people to lock up guns (with the exception of hand guns for home defence, whilst they are home) would be a step in the right direction...
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:50 PM   #307
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To the people saying 99% of people will not use a gun as self defense,
Its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
That's all I'm Going to say

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Old 12-18-2012, 09:08 PM   #308
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Everyone keeps saying modern society but human nature has not changed. Every generation believes they are more civilized than the last but this is a fallacy. Those that do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #309
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I will not rely on others to protect myself and my family. I will have just as much of an opportunity to defend myself as someone else does to try and take my personal property or my life or threaten my wife/children. There isn't a way to abolish all weapons/violence. It's not going to happen. I don't have a weapon inviting others to come in and take what they want. It's my stuff, not theirs. I will protect what is mine.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:10 PM   #310
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Have you done any research into anything you said? So gun vs knife. Knife has unlimited ammo, no chance for it to jam (preventing further death aka theater shooting). Next lets compare one bullet shot vs one knife cut. How many seconds do you think it takes to slit someones throat? How many seconds do you think it would have taken that kid to slice 28 kids throats seeing as they have no chance to defend themselves? Next a bullet norm goes in and out and is small so more compact injury. Average knife blade is what inch wide by 3-4 long. So the injury is going to be more spread out b/c more body parts are hit (in a chest strike for instance). Also, how many major arteries are in the body? How small of a cut do you think it takes for someone to bled to death?

Battle: gun vs knife. Are we talking close combat? if so I will take fighting someone with a gun. Why? Look at vids of disarming a man with a gun compared to a knife. I can grab the gun anywway I want to disarm, cant do that with a knife. He has to aim directly at you to shoot you.. but a blade can cut you from many angles.
If knives are soooo dangerous and bombs are sooo much more devasting, why didn't he use it? why didn't he make a pipe bomb if it's so easy and effective? Why did he go with an AR15? Why did all the other mass killings involves guns rather than anything else? You failed to answer this while going on to make the same argument that guns are less lethal.

The argument that knives are just as lethal and effective as guns is a bunch of BS that you guys throw out there as an argument.
Why don't you carry knives instead of guns then?
Why don't police also carry knives.
Why don't our entire military drop all our guns and carry some big ass knives?
Why? Because guns are some lethal sh*t. That's why. All of you who has a gun knows that. That's why you have one!! Because it can kill quicky and effectively by any means. That's why you have it for self defense. So please "the knives are just as dangerous" BS. I don't buy it.


Let's not take this out of context where people "battle" each other as you described. This is not a war zone. It was a classroom. It was a movie theather. It was a mall. This was sudden and it was very violent, and very unexpected. It's the element of suprise that catch people off gaurd. Either you watch way too many videos or play too many games, but disarming people with guns don't happen very much. If you hear an AR15 going off in the hallway, let's be honest, you're not gonna jump out to do "battle". You're gonna run and hide.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:15 PM   #311
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To the people saying 99% of people will not use a gun as self defense,
Its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
That's all I'm Going to say
The mom had those guns for self defense. She never needed it. Her son did, to take 26 innocent lives. Is it better?
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:21 PM   #312
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In the case of the school shooting.

No guns would more than likely not have stopped the incident bun an armed teacher would have. The more armed teachers the faster the suspect would have been stopped and the less loss.
Are you really suggesting teachers carry guns to school? Really????
High school teachers deal with 150+ students a day running in and out of their classrooms. A loaded gun in the desk drawer in EVERY SINGLE classroom is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. You take the violence out of school, not bring it in.

The day a teacher carries to school, is the day i'm pulling my kids out.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:26 PM   #313
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Are you really suggesting teachers carry guns to school? Really????
High school teachers deal with 150+ students a day running in and out of their classrooms. A loaded gun in the desk drawer in EVERY SINGLE classroom is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. You take the violence out of school, not bring it in.

The day a teacher carries to school, is the day i'm pulling my kids out.
In the state of TN, legislation will be written and proposed after the start of the new year to do just that. I personally think that is one of the better suggestions on how to curb school violence.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:33 PM   #314
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Are you really suggesting teachers carry guns to school? Really????
High school teachers deal with 150+ students a day running in and out of their classrooms. A loaded gun in the desk drawer in EVERY SINGLE classroom is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. You take the violence out of school, not bring it in.

The day a teacher carries to school, is the day i'm pulling my kids out.
And how do you know the kid next to your kid at school doesn't have a gun on him at school tomorrow? Gun free zone my ass.

People like you are the reason we are in situations like this.

Florida is also proposing to allow teachers to carry firearms.

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Old 12-18-2012, 09:38 PM   #315
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Are you really suggesting teachers carry guns to school? Really????
High school teachers deal with 150+ students a day running in and out of their classrooms. A loaded gun in the desk drawer in EVERY SINGLE classroom is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. You take the violence out of school, not bring it in.

The day a teacher carries to school, is the day i'm pulling my kids out.
A loaded weapon in the desk drawer is useless. I loaded weapon being warn is more useful. Also not all teachers will carry, only one is better than none!!!!

How many people everyday that you walk by have a CCW and you don't even know it? You don't know it because we aren't supposed to let you know. Now if all of us CCW owners were open carrying would that change your mind on anything? Not if you are obeying the law but if you were breaking the law or about to you would probably have a second thought.

Answer this question. Why are these happening in places that are gun free zones? It's a simple question, is it a coincidence? I don't believe it is, that is why as soon as they are confronted their life is taken.

The best way to survive a situation like these is to run/hide/fight. You don't just start fighting you have to know what is going on and how to react. Many CCW holders when in a place know where the exits are and entrances and are usually seeing what is going on around them. They aren't just focused on the task. Think of it as riding your motorcycle without actually doing it. You see what is going and not just riding around not looking at anything but the road in front of you.

Where are you from Bizzle? U.S.? What state. Are you familiar with guns have you ever shot one?
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:40 PM   #316
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Yes, guns DO cause more damage then knives. Don't kid yourself by saying otherwise. Unarmed, would you rather fight a person who has a knife or a gun? Thank you.

Bombs are not as easily to contruct as you make it sound to be. You would need to be very knowledgable in chemical compounds to even know where to begin. Throwing stuff together from Walmart is a very nice try as an argument, but it makes very little sense. If there are so many ways to kill people, why do we see a prevalence in gun deaths?



Once again. Missing the point. My point is how easily guns are accessible as murder weapons....not how many ways a person can die. People don't go into a mall throwing water, rocks, and tree branches to kill a person. I agree with you that we need to look at the individual. But If his mother didn't have those guns, I'd doubt that kid would get very far.




Yes! Guns were created for war! Not hunting or recreation.
Hunting = fun. Recreation = fun. Self denfense = very rarely the case.
Would you put entertainment over safety?
What is an assualt riffle? You tell me, you seem to be an expert.

Disarming the public won't prevent the murderer from murdering? How would you know? In over 236 years of American Independence, we've never tried! Would it hurt to give it a chance?
First, since you want them off the streets, why dont YOU tell us what an assault rifle is.

And then explain the difference between a fully automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon.


"Dis-arming the public" as you call it needs to be called what it is. Dis-arming law abiding citizens. That is the one topic that every person for banning guns continually avoids.

Do you honestly believe that if you make owning a semi automatic rifle illegal that gangs and evil doers will not be able to acquire them any more? Because the last time I checked having a fully automatic Mac-10 or an Uzi is pretty much illegal anywhere in the US (that I am aware of, I know here in NJ it is.)


That is the reason why I NEED a semi-automatic rifle. That is why I NEED a high caliber hand gun. That is why I NEED 10 round magazines. THAT is why we NEED the second amendment.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:47 PM   #317
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Are you really suggesting teachers carry guns to school? Really????
High school teachers deal with 150+ students a day running in and out of their classrooms. A loaded gun in the desk drawer in EVERY SINGLE classroom is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. You take the violence out of school, not bring it in.

The day a teacher carries to school, is the day i'm pulling my kids out.
How does bringing a gun into a school to protect the occupants bringing violence in??

A gun is not violence. It is an item, just like a baseball bat or towel. Yet when used violently all three of them can be deadly weapons. I know this has been covered before.

If an armed police officer was to walk into the local grade school would you pull your children out of that school? What about if the president was to show up at your kids school, would you remove your kids because the CIA was carrying assault weapons? What about on a plane? Do you feel threatened that any one of the people around you can easily be a US air marshal and can be very well armed, to protect the occupants of that plane? What is the difference between a police officer, a CIA agent, a US marshal or a school teacher? What if that school teacher is ex US military? I know a few of my teachers in school have served in the armed forces, are they not worthy of carrying a firearm to protect the occupants of that school? Why not? Because he doesn't have the uniform on any more?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:01 AM   #318
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I'm sure we will hear lots of ramblings from the left about it soon. However nothing came out of all the other ones carried out in the past decade. Hard to say for sure what the future holds.

Having said that, Washington needs to figure out how to balance a check book and fix our problems before making knee jerk reactions. Wishful thinking I know...
I wouldn't call this a knee-jerk reaction, but hey maybe you haven't been paying attention. Most the comments I've heard so far are lacking critical/depth of thinking (i.e. ban rocks, motorcycles...). Just mentioning "the Left" says that your making this political; most on this forum are a bit more discrete. How ever it's done, I hope we don't see this again... ever!

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:05 AM   #319
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:05 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by 1/4milecrazy View Post
How does bringing a gun into a school to protect the occupants bringing violence in??

A gun is not violence. It is an item, just like a baseball bat or towel. Yet when used violently all three of them can be deadly weapons. I know this has been covered before.

If an armed police officer was to walk into the local grade school would you pull your children out of that school? What about if the president was to show up at your kids school, would you remove your kids because the CIA was carrying assault weapons? What about on a plane? Do you feel threatened that any one of the people around you can easily be a US air marshal and can be very well armed, to protect the occupants of that plane? What is the difference between a police officer, a CIA agent, a US marshal or a school teacher? What if that school teacher is ex US military? I know a few of my teachers in school have served in the armed forces, are they not worthy of carrying a firearm to protect the occupants of that school? Why not? Because he doesn't have the uniform on any more?
Sorry, I don't want bulles flying around my girls' school for any reason. Gun + guns = fire fight = more death.

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:10 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by Bizzle View Post
Are you really suggesting teachers carry guns to school? Really????
High school teachers deal with 150+ students a day running in and out of their classrooms. A loaded gun in the desk drawer in EVERY SINGLE classroom is the dumbest idea i've ever heard. You take the violence out of school, not bring it in.

The day a teacher carries to school, is the day i'm pulling my kids out.
I agree! We need to make it harder to get guns on school grounds, not make it manditory. There's no place for guns in our schools.

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:16 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by AK600 View Post
Sorry, I don't want bulles flying around my girls' school for any reason. Gun + guns = fire fight = more death.

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NOBODY DOES!!!!


But if some maniac comes in and starts shooting at children, would you want for someone to be trained and able to stop them, or just let them keep going till they run out of bullets?

WTF makes you think that having firearms in a school is going to make bullets start flying?? Arming teachers, or putting a couple of armed security officers in the school is not going to automatically turn the place into a practice range.

You go through life EVERY DAY passing by people who are armed. Did you ever go to a courthouse or a police station? Is there bullets flying around all over the place? NO of course not.


Answer my above question, What is the difference between a properly trained teacher or a military agent or police officer?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:17 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by jskateborders View Post
In the case of the school shooting.

No guns would more than likely not have stopped the incident bun an armed teacher would have. The more armed teachers the faster the suspect would have been stopped and the less loss.
I know a lot of teachers (all great people), but at least half of them would be dangerous armed. I trust law enforcement and millitary personnel to be armed, not joe blow elementary teacher.

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:18 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by 1/4milecrazy View Post
NOBODY DOES!!!!


But if some maniac comes in and starts shooting at children, would you want for someone to be trained and able to stop them, or just let them keep going till they run out of bullets?

WTF makes you think that having firearms in a school is going to make bullets start flying?? Arming teachers, or putting a couple of armed security officers in the school is not going to automatically turn the place into a practice range.

You go through life EVERY DAY passing by people who are armed. Did you ever go to a courthouse or a police station? Is there bullets flying around all over the place? NO of course not.


Answer my above question, What is the difference between a properly trained teacher or a military agent or police officer?
Two words: metal detector.

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:21 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1/4milecrazy View Post
NOBODY DOES!!!!


But if some maniac comes in and starts shooting at children, would you want for someone to be trained and able to stop them, or just let them keep going till they run out of bullets?

WTF makes you think that having firearms in a school is going to make bullets start flying?? Arming teachers, or putting a couple of armed security officers in the school is not going to automatically turn the place into a practice range.

You go through life EVERY DAY passing by people who are armed. Did you ever go to a courthouse or a police station? Is there bullets flying around all over the place? NO of course not.


Answer my above question, What is the difference between a properly trained teacher or a military agent or police officer?
To your last comment: it's their trade. There's a huge difference.

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:28 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Bizzle View Post
If knives are soooo dangerous and bombs are sooo much more devasting, why didn't he use it? why didn't he make a pipe bomb if it's so easy and effective? Why did he go with an AR15? Why did all the other mass killings involves guns rather than anything else? You failed to answer this while going on to make the same argument that guns are less lethal.

The argument that knives are just as lethal and effective as guns is a bunch of BS that you guys throw out there as an argument.
Why don't you carry knives instead of guns then?
Why don't police also carry knives.
Why don't our entire military drop all our guns and carry some big ass knives?
Why? Because guns are some lethal sh*t. That's why. All of you who has a gun knows that. That's why you have one!! Because it can kill quicky and effectively by any means. That's why you have it for self defense. So please "the knives are just as dangerous" BS. I don't buy it.
IMO, why criminals don't use bombs is because the criminals for lack of better terms "enjoy hunting." They don't necessarily get that same satisfaction sitting a mile away setting off a detonator. At the moment no one news org can confirm or deny he used the AR, just that it was there at the scene.

Also for the record, I do carry knives and they are my main line of defense for anything within spitting distance. Knives are more effective than guns in normal sized rooms, just ask anyone who has formal training and they'll tell you the same. Why is that? Because unless your Wild Bill Hickok, you'll never unholster the weapon in time and even if you could unholster the weapon, you'll most likely have it disarmed from you.

So why do I carry a gun? Because not all conflicts occur within spitting distance, sometimes when things go your way, you have distance between you and the bad guy and having a firearm is the better weapon of choice.

So you ask, why don't our soldiers stop carrying guns and go strictly to blades? Do you even have a clue what the modern battlefield is like? Most of the battles that go on today are 100 yards or more, it's tough to effectively kill a bad guy when he's that far away using a knife. Those distances are better covered with guns and explosives, which surprise-surprise, that's what soldiers use. If you move the battlefield to the confines of a room and you can bet they'll stop using long guns. The cops don't carry knives because of lawsuits. Can you imagine someone like Al Sharpton raising hell if a department used a knives on someone?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:40 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by AK600 View Post
I know a lot of teachers (all great people), but at least half of them would be dangerous armed. I trust law enforcement and millitary personnel to be armed, not joe blow elementary teacher.
It's sad to say, but I know some LEOs that would do more harm than good with a firearm. Can't hit a 6" steel plate at 7 yards unless you use a whole magazine? Yeah, I trust them defending me .

Also, metal detectors only work if the bad guy walks through the main entrances. If they break through the back doors or windows like this nutjob did, it won't do crap to detect a firearm.

I agree with you that arming teachers isn't the answer but there has to be some allowance of self defense, we simply just don't have enough qualified cops to put in every school.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:42 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by AK600 View Post
Two words: metal detector.

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I invite you to come to where I grew up. It is Hillside, NJ. Right next to Newark, NJ as well as Irvington, NJ. Feel free to look up the crime rates for each town.

The metal detectors were introduced when I was in school there. 18+ years ago. I am sure they have been improved since then, but I can easily show you how useless they are. I carried a knife with me every day in school.

I am not saying to give every teachers a weapon and let them do what they want. Find the ones that want to be armed and train them. Or, put armed security guards in there. We had them where I went to school. There was security guards in the halls and police in the parking lots and on the streets near the school in the AM and when school got out. It wasn't to protect the school kids from outsiders, but the school kids from each other as well as the outsiders from the school kids, but the theory is the same.

So are you saying that you can not send a teacher through the same training that a cop goes through? Do you think that a teacher does not love their students enough to go through the proper training to be able to protect them?
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:45 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by orientexpress11 View Post
IMO, why criminals don't use bombs is because the criminals for lack of better terms "enjoy hunting." They don't necessarily get that same satisfaction sitting a mile away setting off a detonator. At the moment no one news org can confirm or deny he used the AR, just that it was there at the scene.

Also for the record, I do carry knives and they are my main line of defense for anything within spitting distance. Knives are more effective than guns in normal sized rooms, just ask anyone who has formal training and they'll tell you the same. Why is that? Because unless your Wild Bill Hickok, you'll never unholster the weapon in time and even if you could unholster the weapon, you'll most likely have it disarmed from you.

So why do I carry a gun? Because not all conflicts occur within spitting distance, sometimes when things go your way, you have distance between you and the bad guy and having a firearm is the better weapon of choice.

So you ask, why don't our soldiers stop carrying guns and go strictly to blades? Do you even have a clue what the modern battlefield is like? Most of the battles that go on today are 100 yards or more, it's tough to effectively kill a bad guy when he's that far away using a knife. Those distances are better covered with guns and explosives, which surprise-surprise, that's what soldiers use. If you move the battlefield to the confines of a room and you can bet they'll stop using long guns. The cops don't carry knives because of lawsuits. Can you imagine someone like Al Sharpton raising hell if a department used a knives on someone?
Right. Knives are not even close. Each kill involves personal engagement and each additional person involved increases the complexity and likelyhood that the assalent will be overwhelmed (even by unarmed teachers). Don't get me started on rocks...

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Old 12-19-2012, 12:46 AM   #330
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Two words: metal detector.

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I went to inner city schools in WDC that had metal detectors. They had them from k-12 and it didn't stop anything. We saw knives, guns and baseball bats every week. You put in a metal detector, the kids find a way around it.
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