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Old 12-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #481
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That is EXACTLY my point! You just about made my point for me! And YES that is the problem!

These people want to ban things that they know nothing about, they want to ban things and call for things that they aren't actually going to get. But they think they are.

People are standing up talking about how they want the "semi-automatic assault rifle" banned, thinking it was used in CT. But it wasn't! The AR-15 used in CT isn't an assault rifle under the SAW ban. So what they are calling for will only provide them some false sense of security, it won't change anything, it wouldn't have prevented what happened!

I understand that and I also understand something needs to be done. The difference is I know enough about the topic to know that THIS BAN won't do it. And you guys rely on that, what is going to happen when the next one happens? YOU'RE BANNING THE WRONG THINGS!

We should be having a REAL conversation with REAL solutions.

My bait was to help show these people how much there is to know, and yea... how much they don't know. Not to try and make them look foolish, but to try and get them to learn more about it. It's critical that they do in order to prevent these events in the future!
In that case, there is a fair chance that I know a bit more about a 600RR than you do, therefore you know nothing and your opinion is worthless. You might as well just leave the forum as nothing you have to say on the subject of a 600RR has any weight. Still seem like a legitimate argument? The answer to that would be no, everyone's opinion and knowledge is welcome here, regardless of how much they actually have to offer.

I also made no mention of the SAW ban. The specific term I used was semi-automatic weapon, not semi-automatic assault rifle as defined by the AWB act. At no time did I mention the definition of a SAW weapon, neither did AK600, so your assertion that what we suggest (being a ban on semi-automatic weapons) would have no effect on that particular rifle you posted the picture of is simply incorrect.

Perhaps you would like to go back and read what was written before making further assumptions?
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:59 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
In that case, there is a fair chance that I know a bit more about a 600RR than you do, therefore you know nothing and your opinion is worthless. You might as well just leave the forum as nothing you have to say on the subject of a 600RR has any weight. Still seem like a legitimate argument? The answer to that would be no, everyone's opinion and knowledge is welcome here, regardless of how much they actually have to offer.

I also made no mention of the SAW ban. The specific term I used was semi-automatic weapon, not semi-automatic assault rifle as defined by the AWB act. At no time did I mention the definition of a SAW weapon, neither did AK600, so your assertion that what we suggest (being a ban on semi-automatic weapons) would have no effect on that particular rifle you posted the picture of is simply incorrect.

Perhaps you would like to go back and read what was written before making further assumptions?
Wait, what makes you think you know more about a 600RR???

LMAO!!

I never said that people shouldn't be involved in the conversation, what I said was that people should LEARN about what it is they think they want. You're welcome to go back and re-read it again.

And I used the SAW ban as an example of this. I never said you were for it, it was an example.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:24 AM   #483
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Sources: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../violent-crime

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-...ort-story.html

Numbers: United States Population: 314,960,029
Violent Crimes: 1,203,564

United Kingdom Population: 62,698,362
Violent Crimes: 2,090,000

As you can see the UK crime rate comes as a pie chart with percentages... however they note that there were a total of 9.5 million crimes total... so one simply takes the "all violence" section's percentages and then multiply .22 by 9.5 million.. which is how I got that number.

UK has more total rapes and sexual assaults in raw number then the US, putting Rape/Sexual assault at around 6x higher per capita.

US violent crime rate- 382 per 100,000
UK violent crime rate- 3,333 per 100,000

And most of the U.S' crime is in our major cities which have serious gun restrictions (The City of Chicago and urban Southern California alone, both have draconian anti-gun laws, make up 1/5 of all U.S. murders) http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-5

Conversely, Alaska and Vermont, both allow the concealed carry of firearms by any adult over the age of 21 without a license had 37 murders total. 4 per 100,000 and 1.3 per 100,000 respectively. California and Illinois are 4.8 per 100k and 5.6 per 100k, respectively.

On top of that, the Crime Bill/Assault Weapon's ban expired in 2004. Here are the violent crime total numbers in the USA since 2007




Rebuttals?





And we still haven't stopped a single murder... one guy with a gun is going to ******* own all of that **** and still kill dozens of people. Try again.

Oh, by the way: How are you going to ban firearms? Do you know the type of shenanigans that would ensue when 640,000 law enforcement officers try to collect 310,000,000 firearms from private possession? Cops would rather quit their jobs then risk going door to door taking GUNS from gun owners. Ask them.

I'll just keep quoting it until someone tells me why violent crime is so high in the U.K. in spite of them not having any guns.

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Old 12-20-2012, 11:49 AM   #484
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^^^ lmao!!!!
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:05 PM   #485
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I still laugh when people who post these charts or figures when they don't realize those are college projects in one county or estimated... Taken and paid by and for by anti gun groups in select areas with select numbers to help the chart... Not included the city upped its LEO office by 50% that year or a major gang orginazation was just busted and 90% of their ILLEGAL weapons were taken off the street... Those are so flawed its stupid..

And they yet to see the actual reports on armed civilians who have stopped actual shootings being armed.. But of course they'd rather google a blind study to show their point based off a "hypothosis" than actual real live people and events...


Ohh what it must be like to have rainbow and long dreams... Wish I could just see that and not realistic views of the sick fu**s we have in America...


I really wish it wasn't against the rules here to post snuff videos I've seen of some disgusting sh** I wish I hadn't...

But if you really want to open your eyes fellas google 2 guys 1 hammer.. Please and go from there if you can even finish that sick video... And that's the people who make us gunners own and want to keep out guns.. And sadly they are obviously more common than we want to believe...
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:16 PM   #486
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I'll just keep quoting it until someone tells me why violent crime is so high in the U.K. in spite of them not having any guns.
LOL, did you even read your own "research? The following data comes from your stuff.

US murders (2011): 14, 612
UK murders (2011): 550

Some more data comparing crime by country from your research:



Yeah, keep quoting it. Admittedly, some other crimes are at similar levels, but you also need to read how they define and categorize crimes. The FBI report has a very limited definition of violence that only seems to include extreme cases.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #487
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If you guys are so interested in numbers they why don't you support every 15 normal Americans to be armed or own guns to 1 psycho?? I'm not getting the logic but instead ban guns so 1 psycho will find a way to a "banned" gun while we sit to fend helplessly...

Also say we ban guns... Ok your point of it being able to be so easy to kill someone and less personal... So no guns anymore no one has them... He comes in with a knife... Your telling me you will actually grab a bat and crack his skull into mush and feel it go soft under the wood or metal or grab a knife and slide it thought his gun face to face while you feel his flesh split..?

Again sorry if I'm killin your rainbow pretty dreams and bringing it a little too real and close to home but PLEASE explain to me how with out guns you plan on defending your self against someone looking to inflict harm..? Even now for the non gun owners what do you plan to do..?

Because I sure as hell am not going to call and pull a taken (movie) and hide under the bed till they find me helplessly and sure as hell don't feel like having nightmares and flashbacks of smashing a guys skill in all over my floor covered in his blood standing over his/her body...

Again sorry if too graphic for this forum but this is real life guys open your eyes... Again I highly request you google the video in the comment above and please tell me you can do that and are not bother AT all.. I literally had 2 dreams about that video for 2 weeks its so twisted and real and literally made me double look at everyone I walked by for a month...

So come on you want to be so personal and defenseless please watch... I'm sure if will open your eyes weather you admit it on the forum or not you will think twice about your views...
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:09 PM   #488
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LOL, did you even read your own "research? The following data comes from your stuff.

US murders (2011): 14, 612
UK murders (2011): 550

Some more data comparing crime by country from your research:



Yeah, keep quoting it. Admittedly, some other crimes are at similar levels, but you also need to read how they define and categorize crimes. The FBI report has a very limited definition of violence that only seems to include extreme cases.
Silly.

Of course I did.

It makes sense a country with 20% of the population the U.S. has would have less murders. That's common sense.

And when firearms are removed from the equation completely our murder rate is still higher than the U.K. are you going to say guns are responsible for murders committed with knives? :sly:

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:18 PM   #489
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Silly.

Of course I did.

It makes sense a country with 20% of the population the U.S. has would have less murders. That's common sense.

And when firearms are removed from the equation completely our murder rate is still higher than the U.K. are you going to say guns are responsible for murders committed with knives? :sly:

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Yes they have 20% the population. So if they were to have the population of the states they would have 1500-2000 homicides. But america has 14500 which even per million people is 10x the amount of the UK

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Old 12-20-2012, 04:32 PM   #490
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Yes they have 20% the population. So if they were to have the population of the states they would have 1500-2000 homicides. But america has 14500 which even per million people is 10x the amount of the UK

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And tell me how banning guns will stop the u.s. from having a higher murder rate?

Its amazing how the gun grabbers hide their heads in the sand when numbers come out.

Its not about guns. Its about control.

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Old 12-20-2012, 04:50 PM   #491
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Been watching less of the news b/c all the BS but caught some this morning before work. In just a matter of days since the shooting, there has been quite a few "CopyCats" calling in threats to schools. Two days before they interviewed a child shrink that stated that the news coverage is making this worse and will produce copycats like the one guy that is I think in the netherlands. The reporter was shocked and what the Doctor said and just kind of blew it off, welllllll here you go.

Some ppl go to Hollywood to become famous, others go on a shooting rampage. So who's to blame the gun or the ppl giving the shooters the publicity they are wanting. How many mass murders do you know the name of that were around before you were even born. And then they put these guys in history books etc.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #492
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It makes sense a country with 20% of the population the U.S. has would have less murders. That's common sense.
That's not the point. The point is the per capita risk or the rate per 100 000 people. Obviously it's a LOT lower in the UK; in fact, the murder rate is 5x higher in the USA. Is that easier for you to understand? Sorry if the other numbers were confusing.

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And when firearms are removed from the equation completely our murder rate is still higher than the U.K. are you going to say guns are responsible for murders committed with knives? :sly:
I don't have any idea what you're trying to say here. The point is that societies that limit violence by having laws that work have less murders. Other crimes are not so easily linked to guns as the gun helps, but is indirectly related to the crime in order to intimidate (robbery, etc), which makes it equal to most other weapons.


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And tell me how banning guns will stop the u.s. from having a higher murder rate?

Its not about guns. Its about control.
The point is to reduce the murder rate, not bring to zero. That would only happen in a utopian society.

It's not about guns. It's not about control. It's about gun control. Simple.

As I said, I'm not totally against guns, but there need to be regulations or every nut has access. As for those who are mentally stable, that can change over time so controls are needed to make sure the right people have guns at the right time.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:31 PM   #493
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:42 PM   #494
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Since no one can deny that Obama wants to be one big group under the UN, i'd like to highlight something outta TheX link just so no one will miss it.




Remember, the first step in establishing a dictatorship is to disarm the citizens


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Old 12-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #495
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Since no one can deny that Obama wants to be one big group under the UN, i'd like to highlight something outta TheX link just so no one will miss it.




Remember, the first step in establishing a dictatorship is to disarm the citizens


I hope people read this and actually take the time to research exactly where he's trying to take us. When we are in economic ruin, and the rest of the world wants us to repay all that debt, I plan on defending my family and my property with force. Things are going to get really bad.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:03 PM   #496
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You know I think since banning guns will make everyone safer then Obama should disband the secret service. Must be nice being the person doing this knowing that tax payers are paying for him to have security for life. Do we not have the same right to be safe and protect our families as him?

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Old 12-20-2012, 06:10 PM   #497
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Maybe we should also just take them away from the military too while we're at it...

"the number of soldiers who have committed suicide between January 1 and September 30 is 247, while the number killed in combat is 222"

http://www.businessinsider.com/suici...combat-2012-10
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:20 PM   #498
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adding fuel to the fire... one of my engineering friends posted this on facebook:
Quote:


Alright, all you data heads: I was getting tired of farcical claims with supposed factual bases, so I found the data (from a non-conservative source outside the US), graphed it in Excel, and ran the numbers for the extremities. Check me if you want, here's the data: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...hip-world-list
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #499
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That's not the point. The point is the per capita risk or the rate per 100 000 people. Obviously it's a LOT lower in the UK; in fact, the murder rate is 5x higher in the USA. Is that easier for you to understand? Sorry if the other numbers were confusing.



I don't have any idea what you're trying to say here. The point is that societies that limit violence by having laws that work have less murders. Other crimes are not so easily linked to guns as the gun helps, but is indirectly related to the crime in order to intimidate (robbery, etc), which makes it equal to most other weapons.




The point is to reduce the murder rate, not bring to zero. That would only happen in a utopian society.

It's not about guns. It's not about control. It's about gun control. Simple.

As I said, I'm not totally against guns, but there need to be regulations or every nut has access. As for those who are mentally stable, that can change over time so controls are needed to make sure the right people have guns at the right time.
How do you not understand that the US has a higher murder rate than in the UK even if every murder committed with a firearm never happened?


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Old 12-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #500
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I hope people read this and actually take the time to research exactly where he's trying to take us. When we are in economic ruin, and the rest of the world wants us to repay all that debt, I plan on defending my family and my property with force. Things are going to get really bad.
Bah you're just paranoid. Give me your weapons. You don't NEED them. There were never any race riots or looting after hurricanes...let alone massive civil unrest due to economic crises.

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Old 12-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #501
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Evidently Indiana law already allows teachers to carry guns...

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-a...dae45e591.html
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:51 PM   #502
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@ Summone

That is pretty much what you have to do these days. I was told by my college Stats teacher to NEVER fully trust any graph or stat even after fully reading it. His words were "Any stat can be exploited or displayed in a way that will allow it to show any result you want". For example is I wanted to make that chart seem to favor the other opposition you could simply stretch it so that the downward line is more linear. Or if I wanted to make it seem a harsher drop I could make it shorter so the line drops more drastically as it gets to the end point.

@Maaku
I've never been that side of the world, but just by interacting and knowing ppl from other countries...the cultural difference are sharp. Italy for example is more family oriented then the avg US household. I live in the South which is known for our hospitality and helping anyone. But when we had a tornado come through and destroyed all kinds of stuff, cut off power for over a week......the true side of ppl come out and ppl act stupid. I have never seen so many ppl looting houses that were hit, combing the cotton fields to steal other ppl's belongings. The U.S. is a country of "ME ME ME". Over the last 10 years this country as a society is going down the drain quick. Its gotten to the point that even a simple act of kindness can bring a tear to my eye b/c they are so rare to see. Its really sad honestly. Humans have been hurting each other since are beginning, and our culture is the prime example of why it will never go away.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:07 PM   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post

Sources: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr.../violent-crime

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-...ort-story.html

Numbers: United States Population: 314,960,029
Violent Crimes: 1,203,564

United Kingdom Population: 62,698,362
Violent Crimes: 2,090,000

As you can see the UK crime rate comes as a pie chart with percentages... however they note that there were a total of 9.5 million crimes total... so one simply takes the "all violence" section's percentages and then multiply .22 by 9.5 million.. which is how I got that number.

UK has more total rapes and sexual assaults in raw number then the US, putting Rape/Sexual assault at around 6x higher per capita.

US violent crime rate- 382 per 100,000
UK violent crime rate- 3,333 per 100,000

And most of the U.S' crime is in our major cities which have serious gun restrictions (The City of Chicago and urban Southern California alone, both have draconian anti-gun laws, make up 1/5 of all U.S. murders) http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-5

Conversely, Alaska and Vermont, both allow the concealed carry of firearms by any adult over the age of 21 without a license had 37 murders total. 4 per 100,000 and 1.3 per 100,000 respectively. California and Illinois are 4.8 per 100k and 5.6 per 100k, respectively.

On top of that, the Crime Bill/Assault Weapon's ban expired in 2004. Here are the violent crime total numbers in the USA since 2007




Rebuttals?





And we still haven't stopped a single murder... one guy with a gun is going to ******* own all of that **** and still kill dozens of people. Try again.

Oh, by the way: How are you going to ban firearms? Do you know the type of shenanigans that would ensue when 640,000 law enforcement officers try to collect 310,000,000 firearms from private possession? Cops would rather quit their jobs then risk going door to door taking GUNS from gun owners. Ask them.
Oh comeon... Crack for guns. I know you'd be on board.

Come one come all hicks rednecks and robots; free crack when you surreder your ***** ass guns.

You wish you could live up to your fore fathers. They'ed be discusted and kick your ass for even associating with them.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:55 PM   #504
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Oh comeon... Crack for guns. I know you'd be on board.

Come one come all hicks rednecks and robots; free crack when you surreder your ***** ass guns.

You wish you could live up to your fore fathers. They'ed be discusted and kick your ass for even associating with them.

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How about instead of acting like a child and ignoring the numbers many are posting up, you either grow up, or stop posting in this thread. All you are posting is nonsense and calling people names.

Pathetic, but what we have come to expect from many on your side.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:05 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by MXRider View Post
How about instead of acting like a child and ignoring the numbers many are posting up, you either grow up, or stop posting in this thread. All you are posting is nonsense and calling people names.

Pathetic, but what we have come to expect from many on your side.
Yes of course. State your cherry picked information. I believe it was your side that started the childish beligerant crap. But that's okay, I know you have a short memory.
Why don't you attempt to suggest any measures that don't involve guns... You can't. Neither can your friends. It's almost like your addicted to guns. You can't see a future w/o them. You have a sad little life where you stick your nose in the asd of the dog in front of you. Your are as close to the mindless Natiz as they come.
I stick to my "guns" though it isn't popular [in here]. You are the one that buys into the neverending NRA propaganda.
Goood day... ****

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Old 12-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by AK600 View Post
Yes of course. State your cherry picked information. I believe it was your side that started the childish beligerant crap. But that's okay, I know you have a short memory.
Why don't you attempt to suggest any measures that don't involve guns... You can't. Neither can your friends. It's almost like your addicted to guns. You can't see a future w/o them. You have a sad little life where you stick your nose in the asd of the dog in front of you. Your are as close to the mindless Natiz as they come.
I stick to my "guns" though it isn't popular [in here]. You are the one that buys into the neverending NRA propaganda.
Goood day... ****

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Old 12-20-2012, 09:37 PM   #507
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Why don't you attempt to suggest any measures that don't involve guns...
Why don't we state more measures? Because we already have lots of measures in place, what good will more measure do if no one abides by them?
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:53 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by AK600 View Post
Yes of course. State your cherry picked information. I believe it was your side that started the childish beligerant crap. But that's okay, I know you have a short memory.
Why don't you attempt to suggest any measures that don't involve guns... You can't. Neither can your friends. It's almost like your addicted to guns. You can't see a future w/o them. You have a sad little life where you stick your nose in the asd of the dog in front of you. Your are as close to the mindless Natiz as they come.
I stick to my "guns" though it isn't popular [in here]. You are the one that buys into the neverending NRA propaganda.
Goood day... ****

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Told you to knock off the childish behavior and name calling. Enjoy your vacation.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #509
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Told you to knock off the childish behavior and name calling. Enjoy your vacation.
Beaten with the ban stick. You have a permit for that? :P

Or should I say, shot with the ban gun? To stay with the thread.

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Old 12-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by AK600 View Post
Yes of course. State your cherry picked information. I believe it was your side that started the childish beligerant crap. But that's okay, I know you have a short memory.
Why don't you attempt to suggest any measures that don't involve guns... You can't. Neither can your friends. It's almost like your addicted to guns. You can't see a future w/o them. You have a sad little life where you stick your nose in the asd of the dog in front of you. Your are as close to the mindless Natiz as they come.
I stick to my "guns" though it isn't popular [in here]. You are the one that buys into the neverending NRA propaganda.
Goood day... ****

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This literally had NO point but insults... Your argument was in same to argue it wasn't against or foreigner side with any valid points to anything........


Glad your on the other side.. But we would love to not have guns to depend on Saftey.. But guess what there is lunatics out there like what started this whole thread to begin with why we keep our guns....
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