This is a straight copy paste from the fireblades.org forum, what do you guys think?
I caught this while surfing another board and decided to pose the question to Fireblades. The question will be evident by the time you read the paragraph.
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Why one would want a stiffer brake feel on a road bike? I know that I like the stiff feel that my steel braided hoses provide on my track bike, but I use it only on the track and thus I do frequent high-effort braking and I seldom encounter "emergency" braking situations. On my road bike, however, from time to time I encounter situations where I quickly and unexpectedly apply a lot of brake. In these situations, I have a tendency to stab the brake (because I wasn't planning, for example, to have that elk run out into the road ahead of me). For me, the additional compliance provided by the OEM lines compared to steel-braided lines is a safety mechanism -- it helps buffer the shock of brake application so I get a smoother, more controlled application of the brake. I can still get all the brake power I could ever want, because even at full-effort I cannot pull the brake lever all the way to the grip. I just get that initial application in a smoother, more controlled fashion even when I'm panicked.
I think the OEM lines are safer than aftermarket steel braided lines on a street bike.
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Any thoughts on this? Bunk? Sensible? Somewhere in between?
I've now run my bike on a track. I will never race it competitively, thus the trackday duty my brake system saw was as extreme as it will ever see ... and I didn't long for a different lever feel, nor did my brakes ever fade despite sessions that lasted as many as a dozen fairly brisk laps in a row.
So for me, maybe SS lines are frivolous but for the way they look?
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I think that's stupid. It's not the bike, it's the rider that cannot safely roll on his brakes with better brake lines. You don't slam on the brakes in an emergency situation anyways unless you feel like locking up the brakes or diving over the front end. I think this is like saying, "a cruiser is more comfortable, because it's not as sporty or as much like a race bike". Basically what it comes down to is it's a performance modification on a race bike, not designed to help riders avoid emergencies on the street, it's designed to avoid expansion over excessive temperatures with more breaking power over higher stress to reduce fade while retaining the same feel. This is yet another person overlooking the fact he has a race bike on the road...
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I think that's stupid. It's not the bike, it's the rider that cannot safely roll on his brakes with better brake lines. You don't slam on the brakes in an emergency situation anyways unless you feel like locking up the brakes or diving over the front end. I think this is like saying, "a cruiser is more comfortable, because it's not as sporty or as much like a race bike". Basically what it comes down to is it's a performance modification on a race bike, not designed to help riders avoid emergencies on the street, it's designed to avoid expansion over excessive temperatures with more breaking power over higher stress to reduce fade while retaining the same feel. This is yet another person overlooking the fact he has a race bike on the road...
Did you have to so abruptly kill the thread ?
I like they way you put it, there is complacency in that OP's reasoning. That is why you are always encouraged to practice emergency braking so that it is second nature to you and you end up applying the brakes properly rather than stabbing at them. Hell if you practice a little bit you will notice that real braking power kicks in not as soon as you squeeze the lever (And the pads make contact with the rotors) but a split second after that. It is during that time you need to modulate the lever, and maintaining good feel provided by steel lines will help you achieve that rather than trying to compensate for the rubber lines expanding. So in essence once you get over the hurdle of stabbing at the brakes in an emergency, using steel line makes it easier and more efficient.
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Brake fade is more an issue with fluid. The stock brake components work VERY well if properly setup. Use a good fluid and bleed them properly. I flush my brake systems at least twice a year, and more depending on mileage.
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the reason being is that youre pushing too hard....im not the best rider but i can put down 20 fast paced laps at the track and i dont get too much brake fade to be honest
I honestly think its more of a looks thing for the street and people over exaggerate the difference they feel like X said.
I used to frequent mustang forums because im a Mustang guy (even more so than I am a bike guy, I just ride for fun) and for awhile about 3-4 years ago. Underdrive pullies where kind of like that. They offered a slight horsepower gain but when I bought them I didn't notice the difference at all. And some people will say. "Oh yeah I definitely felt a difference, not much of a difference but you could tell there was an increase" I think its the same concept. People imagine they feel something that isn't really there to justify the money they spent on something
That said, I'm still buying braided brake lines. They look cool! Lol
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Honda has always had great brakes,from the Dirt bikes up to the Gold wing,the components they use seem to be better then most other companies,the master cylinders,fluid,lines etc,Honda never seemed to shy away from spending a little extra coin on brakes.
I honestly think its more of a looks thing for the street and people over exaggerate the difference they feel like X said.
I used to frequent mustang forums because im a Mustang guy (even more so than I am a bike guy, I just ride for fun) and for awhile about 3-4 years ago. Underdrive pullies where kind of like that. They offered a slight horsepower gain but when I bought them I didn't notice the difference at all. And some people will say. "Oh yeah I definitely felt a difference, not much of a difference but you could tell there was an increase" I think its the same concept. People imagine they feel something that isn't really there to justify the money they spent on something
That said, I'm still buying braided brake lines. They look cool! Lol
Car forums are the worst.
"All I got is a CHIP and a PULLEY and now I run LOW 10's while getting 89MPG, anyone else that drives any other sports car is STUPID"
Honda has always had great brakes,from the Dirt bikes up to the Gold wing,the components they use seem to be better then most other companies,the master cylinders,fluid,lines etc,Honda never seemed to shy away from spending a little extra coin on brakes.
This is true - Honda OEM suppliers are higher tier, more often, than other makes. It's the extra 10% MSRP in their products.
"All I got is a CHIP and a PULLEY and now I run LOW 10's while getting 89MPG, anyone else that drives any other sports car is STUPID"
For sure. About a week later there was some "lightly used under drive pullys" on eBay for sale lol
The ones I've been on aren't to bad with the brand loyalty. But if you go on Ls1 tech (suck btw :D haha) those are some mean SOBs over there. If it doesn't have an lS1 in it then its worthless......even if the mustang they hate so much stomped them 10 times over they always have an excuse as to why they still suck lol
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For me, honda's motorcycle are already equipped with capable brake system. . . . at least compare to yamaha's oem brake system, honda's are way better!
the reason being is that youre pushing too hard....im not the best rider but i can put down 20 fast paced laps at the track and i dont get too much brake fade to be honest
Sometimes you live in a country without a single track, sometimes you learn to ride in a disciplined manner after you accustom yourself to certain roads to pursue your passion, and sometimes you are willing to accept the risk. As a result I do experience brake feed, especially when I practice emergency braking and ride hard in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don'03
For me, honda's motorcycle are already equipped with capable brake system. . . . at least compare to yamaha's oem brake system, honda's are way better!
Interesting, so in what way are Yamaha's brake systems inferior to the rest?
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Most people over exaggerate the difference they feel with aftermarket lines when discussing them.
OH MY GOD BUT IT FEELS SO DIFFERENT!!!!!!!!!
Seriosly though, I only ride with braided lines...took a blade for a test ride almost went into the back of a car, it's not the one or the other is worse, i was just used to braided lines, just like i would feel a difference had i been riding oem lines everyday and test rode a bike with braided lines
In my opinion it takes less pressure with braided lines to do the same thing, a bonus to some, maybe not to others.
P.S. OEM lines need to be replaced more often that braided lines ;)
Most people over exaggerate the difference they feel with aftermarket lines when discussing them.
Not this little black duck... to be perfectly honest I can't feel any difference at all. I did however buy braided lines when I replaced mine because they look good, they were cheaper than OEM in Australia and because I just wanted to...
I also haven't been to the track so that may account for my lack of noticing the difference...
I posted this last month about braided brake lines. The common misconception with braided brake lines is that they offer better braking performance. What they do offer is better feel and consistency as they are not prone to fade. OEM rubber lines expand under heat and bulge resulting in a loss of brake fluid pressure which translates to a sensation of brake fade and a 'sponginess' felt at the lever after prolonged use. Hence you feel like you need to apply more and more pressure at the brake lever for the same amount of braking performance over time. Braided lines alleviate this problem as they do not expand and therefore maintain strong braking performance and offer a more progressive and consistent feel at the lever particularly when the brakes are being used extensively for example on track. They are an extremely worthwhile upgrade particularly if you intend to ride on track. However, on the road where you are highly unlikely to be exerting the same amount of braking force, and therefore generating as much heat, so you are unlikely to feel any difference to a well maintained set of OEM lines. For road only use you will feel more benefit simply changing the fluid periodically and thoroughly bleeding the system.
Sometimes you live in a country without a single track, sometimes you learn to ride in a disciplined manner after you accustom yourself to certain roads to pursue your passion, and sometimes you are willing to accept the risk. As a result I do experience brake feed, especially when I practice emergency braking and ride hard in general.
Braided lines have no use on the street other than looks.
The OEM setup is enough to flip your bike on the street, or the track.
You get brake fade on the street?
I guarantee you I can ride the street a lot faster than you, and I find your statement ridiculous. You either have a fluid or mechanical problem with your brakes, or you're embellishing the truth.
If you want braided lines get them. It's your money.
To say that they will help you in an emergency braking situation more than OEM is false.
...oh, and OEM Honda brake lines are steel reinforced...so, whatcha gotta say now?
i posted this last month about braided brake lines. The common misconception with braided brake lines is that they offer better braking performance. What they do offer is better feel and consistency as they are not prone to fade. Oem rubber lines expand under heat and bulge resulting in a loss of brake fluid pressure which translates to a sensation of brake fade and a 'sponginess' felt at the lever after prolonged use. Hence you feel like you need to apply more and more pressure at the brake lever for the same amount of braking performance over time. Braided lines alleviate this problem as they do not expand and therefore maintain strong braking performance and offer a more progressive and consistent feel at the lever particularly when the brakes are being used extensively for example on track. They are an extremely worthwhile upgrade particularly if you intend to ride on track. However, on the road where you are highly unlikely to be exerting the same amount of braking force, and therefore generating as much heat, so you are unlikely to feel any difference to a well maintained set of oem lines. For road only use you will feel more benefit simply changing the fluid periodically and thoroughly bleeding the system.
Interesting, so in what way are Yamaha's brake systems inferior to the rest?
In the past, I heard the same (though I have never ridden a Yamaha) - that their bikes had 'wooden' feeling brakes. No clue why reviewers would seem to mention this, I do know that Yamaha used some slightly different caliper style than anyone else for a while. I know that R6's now have a Brembo master cylinder which is cool (it's off-angle and cast, so it's probably comparable to any modern Nissin OEM, but still.)
He is right, they are steel reinforced and most brake lines are steel reinforced. The ones on my car are as well, it rare to not find a line thats steal reinforced, and he is right about them being over rated for street use.
Braided lines have no use on the street other than looks.
The OEM setup is enough to flip your bike on the street, or the track.
You get brake fade on the street?
I guarantee you I can ride the street a lot faster than you, and I find your statement ridiculous. You either have a fluid or mechanical problem with your brakes, or you're embellishing the truth.
If you want braided lines get them. It's your money.
To say that they will help you in an emergency braking situation more than OEM is false.
...oh, and OEM Honda brake lines are steel reinforced...so, whatcha gotta say now?
Firstly, didn't know OEM lines were reinforced.
Secondly, you guarantee me you can ride the street a lot faster than me because......this is a pissing contest now? I know when I feel brake fade, it might be my fluid, nontheless braided lines are still better. It was an assumption that they would perform better in an emergency braking situation because of the improved feedback you would be getting. One I still hold; the fact that you can flip your bike with OEM lines is irrelevant. I am not talking about braking power as Ry6rr posts illustrates, I am talking about the braking experience as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance
In the past, I heard the same (though I have never ridden a Yamaha) - that their bikes had 'wooden' feeling brakes. No clue why reviewers would seem to mention this, I do know that Yamaha used some slightly different caliper style than anyone else for a while. I know that R6's now have a Brembo master cylinder which is cool (it's off-angle and cast, so it's probably comparable to any modern Nissin OEM, but still.)
By in the past, do you mean 10 or 3 years ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyP
Never heard that before either. Isn't a common mod to use an R6 MC on other bikes?
I have heard of this and that is why I am wondering what's with the ripping on Yamaha's brakes.
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