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Old 01-14-2013, 03:24 PM   #1
brmoore
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ECU resets, dyno's etc

While stuck at a honda dealer all day was chatting to the owner and we talked about exhausts etc, he mentioned a few things about the fireblades as im looking at getting one

- stock exhaust is better for midrange and pull off the line due to the flapper etc in the stock exhaust that japan have spent ages developing

- he passes his mate on his stock fireblade out the corners who's got a full exhaust, mapped etc gsxr1000

- when new bikes come in they reset the ECU's and then start the bikes up, wait till the fan kicks in and then run it for 10minutes(strictly without touching the throttle to mess up the settings) for the bike to set itself up so he sees no need for power commanders etc so he doesn't waste his money on them all for just a few bhp(when you have to go all out on full exhaust, PC etc which gets up to £2000)

so essentially is this ECU flashing? so basically the bike sets the fuelling up, i think they did this with my K&N filter as well


so is a dyno still nessesary? better? only better if it blows air into the bike at different speeds to simulate being on the road?

he also mentioned the pitfalls of going to dyno's, they can trick extra bhp out of the readings just by strapping it down lightly for some slight slip in the wheel, then strapping it down harder and it actually shows more bhp without doing anything, i already told him i know to ask for air/fuel ratio's to see they actually did any work rather than just looking at bhp but i didnt know the strapping it down soft then hard trick!

(we also talked about roads in scotland, which he said are good because they put something in the tar which makes the road like sand paper making it like being on rails in terms on grip, which wears out your tyres faster though)
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brmoore View Post
(we also talked about roads in scotland, which he said are good because they put something in the tar which makes the road like sand paper making it like being on rails in terms on grip, which wears out your tyres faster though)
can't say I've ever heard of any special blend of tar in scottish roads, "non-skid" sections sure, but not all roads have that sandpaper effect.

BUT scottish roads will wear out your tyres because they are F**KING AWESOME & you spend more time flicking the bike left/right rather than the straight up crap we have to do down here

disclaimer: not all english roads are bad, but I spend more time avoiding pot holes & taxi drivers than I do enjoying twisties

don't know about all the other stuff about dyno's etc. different people have different opinions, but opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:41 PM   #3
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can't say I've ever heard of any special blend of tar in scottish roads, "non-skid" sections sure, but not all roads have that sandpaper effect.

BUT scottish roads will wear out your tyres because they are F**KING AWESOME & you spend more time flicking the bike left/right rather than the straight up crap we have to do down here

disclaimer: not all english roads are bad, but I spend more time avoiding pot holes & taxi drivers than I do enjoying twisties

don't know about all the other stuff about dyno's etc. different people have different opinions, but opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one
yea he said they wear your tyres faster because of some ground stuff they add in so they grip wet or dry...seems the scottish road workers know a thing or two

i can see where hes coming from with the ecu reset/flash whatever you call it, he says the japanese run the bikes leaner for emissions, so the ecu reset reconfigures it better, which is maybe why you hear ecu flashing being such a big thing on the R1's, but you'd expect yamaha to do that soon as they come in surely...who knows

on what he said im thinking maybe losing weight by turning all the bolts to titanium would add more hp through dropped weight compared to the same spent on an exhaust? anyone know?

a full complete titanium kit from pro bolt is £946.22, is that better spent towards Power commanders and slipons?

the kit replaces:

Rear Axle Nut
Swing Arm Nut
Front and Rear Brake Master Cylinder Banjo bolts
Bleed Nipples for both Front and Rear Calipers
Front and Rear Disc bolts
Front and Rear Caliper Mounting bolts
Front and Rear Caliper Pad Retaining Pins
Chain Adjuster Nut and bolt set
Engine Casing bolt kits
Fairing bolt kit
Front Axle pinch bolts
Handle bar pinch bolt set
Screen kit
Set of 6 sprocket studs and Nuts
Top and Bottom Triple Clamp Pinch bolts.

i read titanium can save 47% weight over most stainless steel but I don't know how much all the bolts on a fireblade weigh together...but i also read a kilo saved on a sportbike can add a bhp as the bike is moving less weight...maybe somebody can be that &nal and try find this out, weigh out all the bolts as you change them

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Old 01-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #4
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With that money you could probably buy a second hand full system & then spending money on another nice gadget


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Old 01-14-2013, 08:04 PM   #5
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reset ECU, run the bike for 10 mins at idle with no throttle so bike can adjust.....

Think the guy was pulling your leg......

Bike has no way of reading realtime AF ratio and adjusting EFI..... no 02 sensor.

Please correct me vigorously if i am full of it.....

ps.... I stand corrected....rNico has informed me that Japanese/Euro spec has O2 sensor (on later Models)

Last edited by tary preisser; 01-14-2013 at 11:08 PM. Reason: learned from another thread I was wrong...
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:11 PM   #6
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rule of thumb is 6-7lbs of weight off the bike is like adding 1hp.

ss bolts are heavy, wish they made ti axles but the cost w/b way high.

( I recall a ti regina bicycle chain being about $400-500 20yrs ago, about 1/2 the weight of the steel $35 chain).

at a cost of about 1000 pounds you are almost halfway to a set of carbon fiber wheels........
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:15 AM   #7
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on the carbon fibre wheels, the difference in handling & acceleration is supposed to huge, instantly noticeable. I'm not sure how much you'd notice if you changed all the bolts to titanium.

CF wheels are expensive, but if I had the cash I'd be all over them like a fat kid on a cheesecake!
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:07 AM   #8
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IMHO, I couldn't justify spending that much on bolts, except for maybe the axle nuts and rotor bolts. No offense, but you probably aren't racing at an AMA level so you wouldn't notice a difference either.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:13 AM   #9
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IMHO, I couldn't justify spending that much on bolts, except for maybe the axle nuts and rotor bolts. No offense, but you probably aren't racing at an AMA level so you wouldn't notice a difference either.

we're not talking about me, we're talking the facts about the bike

Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
reset ECU, run the bike for 10 mins at idle with no throttle so bike can adjust.....



Think the guy was pulling your leg......



Bike has no way of reading realtime AF ratio and adjusting EFI..... no 02 sensor.



Please correct me vigorously if i am full of it.....



ps.... I stand corrected....rNico has informed me that Japanese/Euro spec has O2 sensor (on later Models)
lol actually the bike does more than just sense air/fuel, there are readings taken from the engine itself, you don't just plonk a £12k bike together and hope for the best there are many sensors, the ECU isn't just providing fueling info, there are sensors on the rods etc within the engine too

neutral, kickstand, main beam, engine oil, engine temp, indicators, hazards, brake lever, fan, fuel injections, throttle, tailight, HISS, every single one of these things and more is providing the ECU with information

as for the guy, he's owned a honda dealer all his life i doubt he hasnt picked anything up along the way, he also races a fireblade at oulton park
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:07 AM   #10
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I do not doubt the man has reasons for doing what he is doing........


But, sensors on the connecting rods?

Interesting!
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:00 PM   #11
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Each sensor reads off one another..... So the disconnecting the Ecu is just resetting the monitors... When you ride it will configure to what it sees.. It not going to be able to 100% correct the a/f ratio and correctly adapt fuel to your bike... If that was the case You think for how long bikes have been out power commander along with the rest of the fuel management company's would be looked at as crooks...

Dyno... Is only a computer nd is only as accurate as the person operating it... So that means yes you could take it to a shady place that will screw around with numbers to show that your bike put down 120hp outta a 600rr and the go to another place who only shows 98hp because he entered the correct information yet as long as the person operations the tool knows how to work it a dyno is by far a great tool that will correctly help in adjust your a/f ratio





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Old 01-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #12
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Two things...

1) There are no sensors on conrods, let alone any inside the engine!!! Please... stop listening to idiots and believing everything they say.

2) You'd have to be out of your mind to spend £1k on Ti bolts for your RR. It's not a track bike, isn't stripped, doesn't have other weight saving going on so that should be at the bottom of your to-do list.

IMO of course.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raj24v View Post
2) You'd have to be out of your mind to spend £1k on Ti bolts for your RR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brmoore
we're not talking about me, we're talking the facts about the bike


but I would totally spend £1k on the bolts if I had money to blow! Every little helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raj24v View Post
Two things...



1) There are no sensors on conrods, let alone any inside the engine!!! Please... stop listening to idiots and believing everything they say.
firstly he's not an idiot...it may just be my idiot way of writing things down of course inside the engine combustion is happening i didn't mean there's electronics in there just that alot of the bike has sensors calculation temperature, speed etc so when the bike sets itself up I find it very hard to believe it does nothing at all...honda has made BILLIONS from fireblade sales alone, i think they've learnt how to design a bike that does more than tell itself its on or off, especially when its getting all sorts of information from all over the bike, coolant pressure, oil pressure, kickstands, speeds, temperatures, as mentioned already

in terms of fueling in the blade you have a valve in the stock exhaust and you have o2 sensors, the japanese run them lean for emissions so i do think that part of what the ecu does when reset is to have an effect on the fuel delivery, after all, the fuelling is coming from the ECU, thats what the Power commander piggy backs onto

if you look into ecu flashing you will be amazed how much the ECU is controlling!

07+ 600rr ECU inside:



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