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Old 12-17-2010, 11:46 PM   #1
KuiperDaSniper
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04 600rr Won't start when hot, starts fine when cold...

I have an 04 600rr and can't seem to get my head around what could possibly be the problem. It has about 26000 miles on it, I use it almost daily because my girlfriend usually has my car and I live in Florida so it really doesn't bother me. If I make a pit stop somewhere for under 20 minutes or so, it won't start. However sometimes if I stop and start it again within a minute or so it will, but it seems that I have to be quick, but that's definitely not guaranteed either. If it doesn't want to start I just let it sit for a while and then it starts right up. Once it is started it will run indefinitely and will not die. I can drive in the city light to light, hot day with the fan on and won't have to worry about it dying, but if I turn it off, its a whole other story. I am thinking that it is not the battery or the charging system for that matter since it will not eventually die once its running, only when attempting to start it hot. I have checked the battery voltage and it checks out. I have also read a lot about the regulator/rectifier but mine has a heat shield so I am pretty sure its not one of the faulty ones. If anyone knows anything that I don't, please let me know. Oh, and one more bit of info is that if its hot and doesn't want to start I can push start it very easily every time, and once its running its running. Personally I am thinking the starter motor itself, but I know that I am no expert so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:39 PM   #2
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I just got finished with a voltage reading at the battery when its running. Its at about 13.8 or so at idle, and at 14.1 with rpm's above 4k. so I am pretty sure that is the charging system doing what its supposed to be doing. I also did this after I took it out for a spin and got it really warm with the fan kicking on. With the fan on idling the voltage was at about 13.5 and at 4k rpms it was at 13.8 so the fan was slowing it down, however, i think that is still sufficient considering the fan is on. Once I turn it off though, it will not start till cooled down. With the battery disconnected and the bike not on, I am reading 12.4 from the battery so I'm thinking that might be the problem, but I'm not sure. I don't want to buy a new battery and have something like the r/r being bad and just killing it anyways even though I'm 90% sure the charging system is doing its job. Opinions would be appreciated.
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:45 PM   #3
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Here are some links to video of the whole problem. Hopefully this helps out.

Cold Start -

Hot Start -
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:33 PM   #4
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I think it is your starter motor. our car does this when the engine is warm, otherwise when it's cold it will start up no problem. I'm willing to bet if you replace the starter motor it won't have this problem anymore, but I can't be sure. it's not your battery because the voltage is right where it should be above 12 volts when running. I don't believe it's your rectifier either. I'd take a look at your starter.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:33 PM   #5
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Your battery is dead.

Get a new one and you will be set.

If you get the battery hot and have it load tested while it is hot you will see it in the results.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03cbr-rider View Post
I think it is your starter motor. our car does this when the engine is warm, otherwise when it's cold it will start up no problem. I'm willing to bet if you replace the starter motor it won't have this problem anymore, but I can't be sure. it's not your battery because the voltage is right where it should be above 12 volts when running. I don't believe it's your rectifier either. I'd take a look at your starter.
The voltages being correct only say that the battery is not supplying a large load, and that the charging system is functioning as expected.

It doesn't say that the battery is fine.

Starter motor is possible, however IMO the battery is much more likely to be the culprit especially given the large voltage drop upon attempting to start (evident from the gauges resetting)

If you do look at the starter motor, check the brushes.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:44 PM   #7
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Thanks for the input guys, I will buy a new battery since this one is about 2.5 years old it wouldn't be a complete waste of money if it turns out to be something else anyways. I will keep you updated, thanks for responding.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by KuiperDaSniper View Post
Thanks for the input guys, I will buy a new battery since this one is about 2.5 years old it wouldn't be a complete waste of money if it turns out to be something else anyways. I will keep you updated, thanks for responding.
I would reccomend you ride the bike down to the shop and load test it while it's hot before you go shelling out the dollars for a new one, that way your not spending money you don't have to.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:49 PM   #9
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Get the battery tested.. I thought my problem was the battery and it turned out to be the starter.. If it starts up strong all the time when cold and then nothing everytime it's hot is your starter. The brushes get hot in the starter and don't like to work then. T
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:53 PM   #10
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Get the battery tested.. I thought my problem was the battery and it turned out to be the starter.. If it starts up strong all the time when cold and then nothing everytime it's hot is your starter. The brushes get hot in the starter and don't like to work then. T
Was yours resetting the gauges though?

I would normally expect overheating brushes to make the starter sound 'weak' by decreasing the amount of current going through the starter motor, not increase it causing the gauges to reset.

Anything is possible though...
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:44 PM   #11
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The fact that your trip meter resets to 0 and your clock resets to 1:00 is the give away. Your battery voltage is dropping too low. My '03 had exactly the same "hot start" problem. It turned out that the previous owner had installed a cheap aftermarket battery that didn't have enough discharge capacity to turn over the engine when hot. The volts were fine. It just didn't have enough amps. A new yuasa battery (190 cranking amps) cured the problem. I'm not sure why hot starts are problematic on this bike. I guess it may be a combination of higher electrical resistance and a tighter engine when hot.

http://www.batterystuff.com/batterie...le/YTZ10S.html
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:51 PM   #12
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Yes, mine would do that, That why I got a battery at first without even thinking of the starter. Only could get one-three turns out of the starter it was completely die out. Wait 30 minutes and it would start right up. T
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:21 AM   #13
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Yes, mine would do that, That why I got a battery at first without even thinking of the starter. Only could get one-three turns out of the starter it was completely die out. Wait 30 minutes and it would start right up. T
cool, certainly interesting...
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:43 PM   #14
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This is a good read, In for results when OP narrows down the problem, Future reference for myself.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:37 AM   #15
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So I took the battery by a battery shop today and had it load tested. I was kind of skeptical because the instrument didn't look capable of putting a descent load on it. The battery guy said that everything checked out okay and that the battery was in descent shape. Still skeptical I rode the crap out of the bike and got it nice and hot, let it run for a couple more minutes, turned it off and made sure it wouldn't start. I then just hooked some cables from my car battery (with the car off of course) to the bike battery and it fired right up. I would have used my buddies spare battery from his blackbird but he wasn't around. I guess our bikes just require more amperage to turn over when the engine is hot. So I am now just waiting on that new battery and will let everyone know the whole story when it gets here, hopefully this thread will help out others.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
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So I took the battery by a battery shop today and had it load tested. I was kind of skeptical because the instrument didn't look capable of putting a descent load on it. The battery guy said that everything checked out okay and that the battery was in descent shape. Still skeptical I rode the crap out of the bike and got it nice and hot, let it run for a couple more minutes, turned it off and made sure it wouldn't start. I then just hooked some cables from my car battery (with the car off of course) to the bike battery and it fired right up. I would have used my buddies spare battery from his blackbird but he wasn't around. I guess our bikes just require more amperage to turn over when the engine is hot. So I am now just waiting on that new battery and will let everyone know the whole story when it gets here, hopefully this thread will help out others.
You needed him to load test it when the battery was hot...
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:22 AM   #17
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So it was the battery. Luckily my battery wasn't dead it was just dying and didn't have the power to turn it over when hot. I went by my local wally-world and bought a schumaker float charger for like 20 bucks and wired the quick connect to under the passenger seat. Started up like it was on drugs. Went for a nice spirited ride and then let it sit with the fan on for bout 10 minutes or so and started it hot 3 times in a row. I think I just got lucky and was able to save enough of the battery in time, but I should have that new one any day now. So to sum it all up, Won't start when hot, trip and time reset after failed attempt, and will start in the same condition when hooked to another battery = battery. Thank you all so much for the help. Oh, and to anyone reading this, I highly recommend a float charger. A float will not overcharge and will keep the battery in good condition. I thought that I wouldn't need one since I ride almost every day since this is my daily driver, but I was wrong.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:49 PM   #18
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I've got this exact same problem but ive used two batteries when experiencing it, firstly my old battery which got thrown out thinking it was at fault, and secondly with a browningbuck moty li-Po and it still gave the same symptoms. Had it explained to me by a guy who races a 600rr in england had the same issue (hes on here but not sure of his user name) and it turned out that the brushes in the starter motor were worn and when hot the resistance i think he said was increasing (not sure if that makes sense to anyone) and drawing a load from the battery way above normal which is why the clocks reset as they werent seeing enough voltage.......not sure if that makes sense i haven't explained it very wel!! Just to say it's not always the battery even though it may appear to be the problem.
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:03 PM   #19
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its the starter. not the battery. when hot the starter will pull more current to start the bike eventually draining the battery. your new battery will soon be worn out.
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:08 AM   #20
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Hi KuiperDaSniper,

Are you sure you can get 13.5V at battery terminal when the fan is spinning during idling. Mine dropped to 12.9 V during idling when fan is on.

So what is the voltage during idling when fan is not on?

Quote:
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I just got finished with a voltage reading at the battery when its running. Its at about 13.8 or so at idle, and at 14.1 with rpm's above 4k. so I am pretty sure that is the charging system doing what its supposed to be doing. I also did this after I took it out for a spin and got it really warm with the fan kicking on. With the fan on idling the voltage was at about 13.5 and at 4k rpms it was at 13.8 so the fan was slowing it down, however, i think that is still sufficient considering the fan is on. Once I turn it off though, it will not start till cooled down. With the battery disconnected and the bike not on, I am reading 12.4 from the battery so I'm thinking that might be the problem, but I'm not sure. I don't want to buy a new battery and have something like the r/r being bad and just killing it anyways even though I'm 90% sure the charging system is doing its job. Opinions would be appreciated.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:59 PM   #21
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Just an update, I am still using the old battery I just hook it up to a battery tender every now and then and have not a single problem since. Maybe it was the extra drain from my 2-way paging alarm that eventually drained it.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:31 PM   #22
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Kuiper,
Does your float charger / battery tender need to be connected to a power source while charging? Reason I'm asking is that my parking space doesn't have an outlet available nearby.
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Old 02-28-2011, 04:47 PM   #23
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Im 98% sure its Starter motor (replace it)... My buddies 04 had the same
Problem..
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #24
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Update, still working great with a tender charge every sunday for good measure. Bought a ballistic light weight battery because the other one was about 5 years old and it starts up really fast now. http://www.ballisticparts.com/produc...ries/8cell.php

Just thought I would round off the problem in case anyone else ever experiences the same thing. Thanks for the troubleshooting guys.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:21 AM   #25
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Still going strong on the ballistic battery. I've got about 20k more miles on it since then.
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