Is a Power Commander Necessary if you buy a slip-on?
I was riding with my friend today he has a 1000RR...SEXY bike. He has a arrows exhaust, and I was asking him if he had a power commander. He didn't he said beccause of it the bike runs rich. His 954RR (? I think thats what its called) has a power commander, he said "it isn't mapped right, and it too runs rich"
So Im wondering is a power commander necessary? Both his bikes, two different exhausts one with power commander, one without run rich. So is it necessary?
If so I might buy the exhaust, sit on it for a minute then buy the commander. Then install them myself. Doing it yourself is so much more fun!
Also this is such a noob question im sure : What does running "Rich" mean?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
some will argue that you do/don't need the PC with a slip-on. changing the exhaust will change the air/fuel ratio & make the bike run rich/lean, (rich being to much fuel being burned).
so if you want the bike to run at its best then I think a properly mapped PC is necessary, I did it with mine & it runs great, before the PC was mapped it was sluggish in certain areas of the rev range, the PC smoothed it all out.
thats just my opinion though
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some will argue that you do/don't need the PC with a slip-on. changing the exhaust will change the air/fuel ratio & make the bike run rich/lean, (rich being to much fuel being burned).
so if you want the bike to run at its best then I think a properly mapped PC is necessary, I did it with mine & it runs great, before the PC was mapped it was sluggish in certain areas of the rev range, the PC smoothed it all out.
thats just my opinion though
and your opinion in greatly appreciated! Im thinking about buying a jardine RT-1 Slip On and a DynoJet PC...I think the hardest part would be installing the PC
I got a list of Stuff for my bike!
-New Tires (bought already need to get em on)
-New Battery
-Battery Tender
-Slip-on Exhaust
-Power Commander
-HID Kit (my highbeam was HID but the bulb blew, old owner didn't/doesn't know what lumens it was 6k-7k-8k?)
-Steering Damper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
I was told that adding a slip on would make it run leaner and that it comes lean from the factory for emissions. I have a jardine on my bike and I love it. It isn't to loud and it isn't quiet.
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I was told that adding a slip on would make it run leaner and that it comes lean from the factory for emissions. I have a jardine on my bike and I love it. It isn't to loud and it isn't quiet.
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That's what I always been told and makes sense. You're letting air flow more freely not fuel. Air makes leaner ratio which could cause your engine to be hotter and could cause eventual damage to valves and heads. Will this happen with just a slip on? Doubt it but it's just an example. In modern cars, an O2 sensor would read the leaner ratio, pulse the injectors to increase the fuel flow to keep that 14.7:1 ratio but I have no idea how these bikes run (I'm still a noob to modern FI bikes) I'm definately tagging this thread as I'm waiting for my competition werkes to come in the mail and dont want to suffer issues due to a lean mixture.
I'm restoring an old CB. Pods plus exhaust makes it run so lean it falls flat in third gear so I needed to jet it... before the wiring harness fried lol.
*edit* I guess an oldie but goodie thing to do would be change your plugs when you put your exhaust on. After riding for some distance, take them out and inspect. If they are bleached and a really really flat colored then you're way to lean. Dark and sooty then you're way too Rich.
Last edited by Maddog5150; 09-20-2012 at 05:43 AM.
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That's what I always been told and makes sense. You're letting air flow more freely not fuel. Air makes leaner ratio which could cause your engine to be hotter and could cause eventual damage to valves and heads. Will this happen with just a slip on? Doubt it but it's just an example. In modern cars, an O2 sensor would read the leaner ratio, pulse the injectors to increase the fuel flow to keep that 14.7:1 ratio but I have no idea how these bikes run (I'm still a noob to modern FI bikes) I'm definately tagging this thread as I'm waiting for my competition werkes to come in the mail and dont want to suffer issues due to a lean mixture.
I'm restoring an old CB. Pods plus exhaust makes it run so lean it falls flat in third gear so I needed to jet it... before the wiring harness fried lol.
*edit* I guess an oldie but goodie thing to do would be change your plugs when you put your exhaust on. After riding for some distance, take them out and inspect. If they are bleached and a really really flat colored then you're way to lean. Dark and sooty then you're way too Rich.
Good call sir. Im no mechanic, but im a firm believe in "better safe then sorry" so it seems, a car has an 02 sensor to sense leam/rich mixtures. That is basically what a power commander does (i believe). So I think I'll get a power commander along with it then. Dang, its about to be like 600$ after im done... WORTH IT!
edit: another thing to do to my bike
-Oil change (bought a 4.9 tub of Repsol :D )
- Spark Plug change
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
-HID Kit (my highbeam was HID but the bulb blew, old owner didn't/doesn't know what lumens it was 6k-7k-8k?)
Just buy replacement hid bulb. Ddm tuning sells them $15 plus shipping for a pair. Just get 4500k for Max visibility, anything higher will make it look blue and harder to see.
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Last edited by nahrah; 09-20-2012 at 06:29 AM.
Reason: DDM carries 4500k..not 4300k
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In comparison to the older race bikes. Rule of thumb was been to raise your jetting "5" per mod. I believe the original was 15. So exhaust would be 20. Pods would be 20. Pods plus exhaust 25. Pods, cam, exhaust 30-35. I cant remember, I've been avoiding it like the plague all summer.
Anyways. I KNOW apples and oranges comparing a bike from the 70s to modern FI super sports but in the old bikes, its generally headers plus exhaust when they're changed. Slip on would be like the muffler on them and they never needed to be rejetted for that.
I'm hoping someone puts a good perspective how these modern bikes handle them since I cant really afford a PC right now :D
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In comparison to the older race bikes. Rule of thumb was been to raise your jetting "5" per mod. I believe the original was 15. So exhaust would be 20. Pods would be 20. Pods plus exhaust 25. Pods, cam, exhaust 30-35. I cant remember, I've been avoiding it like the plague all summer.
Anyways. I KNOW apples and oranges comparing a bike from the 70s to modern FI super sports but in the old bikes, its generally headers plus exhaust when they're changed. Slip on would be like the muffler on them and they never needed to be rejetted for that.
I'm hoping someone puts a good perspective how these modern bikes handle them since I cant really afford a PC right now :D
Yeah I hear you, That is why if I get any PC Im getting an autotune, Cause i dunno how to tune or map everything correctly I would mess everything up! haha...
I will be able to afford all of this in october...but not right now!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
I asked the same question a week or so back and everybody said no you don't need a PC for a slip-on. I called a Honda tech to make sure and he said no you don't really need a PC either. I have a two bros black series slip-on and my bike runs great and I average 43 mpg so far since I bought the bike (Came with slip-on). The tech guy said your bike will adjust to the slip-on. Conclusion: Forget the PC for the slip-on.
Last edited by CountryCruza; 09-20-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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are there no places close to you that do dynotuning?
I've never used an "autotune" so I can't really comment on them but I'd have thought a properly tuned custom map would be more accurate?
I get paid friday, and Im going to go get my tires put on at this shop. Im gonna ask them if they do dyno and what their thoughts on exhaust and dyno vs power commander is. I better not need a PC AND an autotune, cause I don't have a laptop to bring down to my bike and test/check/remap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
if you got a PC properly tuned at a dyno then you won't need a laptop because the dyno will program the map into the PC. I mean you can connect it to a laptop, but you don't have to do it regularly, I've never connected mine to a laptop since I had it tuned. an "autotune" just means that you don't have to get it dynoed (I think)
rc cycles is close to san mateo, they do dynotuning, is that any help to you?
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if you got a PC properly tuned at a dyno then you won't need a laptop because the dyno will program the map into the PC. I mean you can connect it to a laptop, but you don't have to do it regularly, I've never connected mine to a laptop since I had it tuned. an "autotune" just means that you don't have to get it dynoed (I think)
rc cycles is close to san mateo, they do dynotuning, is that any help to you?
Yeah thats a big help! thank you swan! I gotta look this over. One guy said your bike will adjust, Meh. Maybe it will. My bike I bought used with 17k on it. He says he kept up with maintenance, but Im gonna wait till I get my
-tires
-plugs
-oil
-Highbeam
before I do any exhaust mods. I'll buy the exhaust and the autotune but I think I want my bike checked out again, and make sure everything is running good. Cause im like 400-500 miles away from my 20k check up. scared but exciting!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
good idea, new plugs & oil will freshen up the engine before you get any tuning done, make it more accurate.
if you do get a PC & get it tuned remember to post the results
Of course! I Should make a thread on it! haha.. Dunno if anyone would subscribe though.
I thought you lived in california, cause you knew san mateo ( its also under my name I know) But thought you lived out here I was about to be like "Let's RIDE :D"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
I'd love to ride around sunny california, it would beat the hell out of UK weather (maybe not the twisties though lol)
I just google mapped san mateo & searched dynotuning. as I keep telling my girlfriend, google is your friend lol
Google is The ****!
I Would love to go to the UK haha it would beat here for me, somewhere new and exciting! california is OLD and BORING
But now that I have this bike, stuff that was old and boring beofre is new fresh and lively :D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
I had a PCIII on my first CBR, all it did for me was provide a few horsepower that I couldn't feel and smooth out the powerband a little. The trade-off was going from 40mpg average to 35mpg average. Not worth it to me since the benefits were not really noticeable. I like filling up less frequently and taking long rides with buddies who are always shocked at the range my bike has (country rides it will get 45-50mpg
I know we don't buy RRs for gas mileage but it is nice...
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there is no need for a pc if you are just running a slip-on,if you are going to do a full exaust with headers then yes you will need it. i have an akra slip-on on mine and it runs just the same and i get the same mileage as i did with the stk exaust, it just sounds way better
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How much do power commanders typically sell for anyway? It would suck if I had to spend several hundred dollars on top of the slip on.
Yoshimura slip on -380-450$
PCIII-PCV 250-300$
total -550-800$$ More depending on slip on vs full and carbonfiber or non carbon fiber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
I had a PCIII on my first CBR, all it did for me was provide a few horsepower that I couldn't feel and smooth out the powerband a little. The trade-off was going from 40mpg average to 35mpg average. Not worth it to me since the benefits were not really noticeable. I like filling up less frequently and taking long rides with buddies who are always shocked at the range my bike has (country rides it will get 45-50mpg
I know we don't buy RRs for gas mileage but it is nice...
Yeah the Honda tech told me the PC will significantly reduce your mpg as where the just the slip-on will hardly reduce your mpg, my best tank so far after 3 fill-ups is 44 mpg and my average is 42 mpg so far and I ride 70% city/30% highway..
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Running rich means that not all of the fuel is being burned. too much enters the combustion chamber but not all of it burns. I have a 2Bros slip on and my bike runs rich (thats why I always smell like gas when I'm done riding) I was thinking about getting a PCV this winter with the hopes that some places will put them on sale during the winter
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Running rich means that not all of the fuel is being burned. too much enters the combustion chamber but not all of it burns. I have a 2Bros slip on and my bike runs rich (thats why I always smell like gas when I'm done riding) I was thinking about getting a PCV this winter with the hopes that some places will put them on sale during the winter
I smell gas while my bike warms up, coming FROM the gas tank? should I be alarmed?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonrrpilot
Here in Philly very few ride alone (mostly small crews) but even if they are alone and get run off the road, 20 other riders are just a phone call away. it wont be long before these idiots are over run by a Squid-Squad that'll leave those Tonka cars smoldering!!
For most bikes, you'll run quite lean if you go to after market pipe from a stock muffler. When running lean, you'll be down somewhat on power from stock, and you'll be exposing your valves to excessive heat. If you have a carb, you need to re-jet it. If you have fuel injection, re-map it. The cool thing about using a power commander when you have EFI is that there are quite a lot of maps out there that might fit your combination bike and pipe. I put a full Arrows system on my '07 600RR, and found a map on the Dyno site specifically for that combination.
Then, you can go the next step and install the quick shifter. I don't know if it makes me faster on the track, but it is loads of fun to do the full throttle up shifts.
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Actually, the most power is achieved when running ever so slightly lean but that is tuned in and not achieved just by throwing on a pipe.
Anything that you do that changes the way the engine runs be it before (intake), after (exhaust), or inside the engine, should be changed in the fuel map as the factory map does not cover most of the rev range.
There is a feedback loop for idle to keep that within spec, but it does not autotune for the entire RPM range.
It is true that you will see hotter temperatures and CAN damage your valves/head in extreme cases but that requires significant changes to the engine without tuning to cause damage.
Running a slip-on with stock ECU is workable, but I don't recommend it.
I rebuild carbs for a living, granted, off older motorcycles but the tuning aspects are still the same, it's better to be slightly rich rather than lean.
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Just like CountryCruzer, I have a 2Bro slip on and a bazzaz ZBomb
to deal with the 09 and up ecu leaner maps. Runs great and 43.5 mpg
mixed and saw 49mpg average on trip to Cali.
Really happy with the 2Bros, also have their license plate bracket/led brake light. Biggest improvement was in the balance of the bike, 10+lbs gone from up high.
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ahh the imortal PWc question
is it worth getting one ? in short yes
i have a 07 600rr
first i ran a slipon micron nice about 6hp difference noticeable and nice noise
95 to 101 but as mentioned fuel/air ratios all wrong
then fitted pwc flapper mod and good air filter dyno 110rwhp better more noticeable
then scored a full titanium race system micron again dyno 121rwhp holy crap
what a difference it made
the exhaust came into its own once the pwc was dynoed
in short definately a good investment better and lower power delivery
power comes in at 4500 rpm realy hard on at 8 then more again at 10
all the dyno figures are for 92 ron stick in avgas or 100 ron and hold on
just my 2 cent worth
cheers from downunder
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