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Old 11-02-2012, 10:15 AM   #1
VT733
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Understanding maps...please help

I have a pc5 with autotune and plan on running a map off dynojet's website and using the autotune to customize it.

08 600rr track bike with Oem air filter, akrapovic slip on, and modified oem headers. The headers are ceramic coated with the cat and servo removed and an O2 bung welded in.

Can anyone recommend which map to start with along with reasoning and/or personal experience?
I thought the akra full or leo full system maps would be good, but they have alot of "data points" that seem pretty lean (like -10% to -25%). Can anyone explain the reason for this?
I currently have the yosh full system map because it is the one with the fewest negative values and i'm paranoid about running too lean and damaging engine parts. However, I can definately tell it is running rich, by smell/smoke/sound. Am I being too paranoid?

Also, can someone give a quick run down of noticeable symptoms and damage that can result from being either too rich or too lean?

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Old 11-02-2012, 10:55 AM   #2
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I thought the whole point of the auto tune module was to adjust your map on the fly as you're riding your bike, so it shouldn't really matter what "base" map you're using. I could be wrong though. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about this can chime in.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:40 PM   #3
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It can make recommended adjustments based on a target a/f but u have to accept them. It doesn't do them automatically. It can make adjustments up to 25% so the more appropriate your base map is the less runs it will take to reach a good map.

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Old 11-02-2012, 06:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VT733 View Post
I have a pc5 with autotune and plan on running a map off dynojet's website and using the autotune to customize it.

08 600rr track bike with Oem air filter, akrapovic slip on, and modified oem headers. The headers are ceramic coated with the cat and servo removed and an O2 bung welded in.

Can anyone recommend which map to start with along with reasoning and/or personal experience?
I thought the akra full or leo full system maps would be good, but they have alot of "data points" that seem pretty lean (like -10% to -25%). Can anyone explain the reason for this?
I currently have the yosh full system map because it is the one with the fewest negative values and i'm paranoid about running too lean and damaging engine parts. However, I can definately tell it is running rich, by smell/smoke/sound. Am I being too paranoid?

Also, can someone give a quick run down of noticeable symptoms and damage that can result from being either too rich or too lean?

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If you have a `Povic with basically a full system, why are you running a Yoshi map? The good people at DynoJet have taken the time to create a map for your setup (or close to it), why not start with that and let the Autotune go from there?

Not all exhausts are created the same, the internals of the mufflers vary depending on what the manufactures have designed in order to create various sounds and performance gains. The amount of packing and the arrangement of the packing can make a difference as well. The inside of a `Povic will be different than a Yoshi. As the exhaust becomes less restrictive the exhaust gasses will be able to flow more freely from the cylinder. The concern that manufactures have is that as they open up the exhaust, the noise increases as well and there are legal limits as to how loud the exhausts are allowed to be.

Also, at what engine speed are you noticing that it's running rich? I looked up the maps for both the Yoshi Full system and the Povic Full system and made a difference map (Yoshi - Povic) so see which map has the higher fuel settings. The green indicates that the Yoshi is putting more fuel into the cylinders than the Povic and the orange is the Povic putting more fuel into the cylinders. So if you're letting it sit idle and notice that it's running rich, you can see that at low engine speeds and no throttle demand that the Yoshi map tends to put more fuel into the cylinders.

One more thing, what are you using to monitor the AFR? Going back to the fact that different exhausts create different effects on the AFR from the variations in restrictions and packing, adding an exhaust (slip-on or full) will change the effect that the preset settings will have on trying to stay near 14.7:1 AFR. Hence, why a PCV or equal is needed to adjust the settings. If you're just going off of your buttdyno, you're doing it wrong IMO. Dyno shops monitor the AFR and adjust the settings so that 14.7:1 is maintained for the majority of the engine speeds and throttle demands. slight deviations from 14.7:1 are acceptable and sometimes needed to ensure that knocking is avoided.

Load the Povic map and let the Autotune work it's magic.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:16 PM   #5
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Yea I was originally gonna do the akra map until I saw all the points that were leaned out. Being an engineer, I would just like to understand WHY certain points in the akra map are much leaner than the the yosh before I upload it trusting that it won't damage anything. I wouldn't think that the two systems would be that much different. I'm assuming it has something to do with the lack of EGCV and the fact that maybe more time/effort/collaboration has gone in to it because akra has more research and experience through racing teams it sponsors...?

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Old 11-02-2012, 10:20 PM   #6
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Also, others on the forum have said 13.1 or 13.2 is a good target ratio. Is that too lean in your opinion?

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Old 11-02-2012, 11:28 PM   #7
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Honestly, I don't have enough experience to make that call. Maybe some else can chime in about that.

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Old 11-03-2012, 12:30 AM   #8
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I have a 07 600rr full yoshi, oem filter. Was running the full yoshi map for a week before I got a custom map done and it was really rich. If you want you can take a look at my custom map and try it if ya want. It seems to still run alittle rich. Let me know. I would like to hear how you like and user friendly the autotune is. I'm thinkn about getting it too maybe. I like to tinker with everything, and its killing me that I can't see my afr.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:45 AM   #9
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Thanks man! That should be really helpful. Sending a pm. I'll keep u updated; i'm at the track all weekend! Also if anyone else has a good map with a setup similar to mine and don't mind sharing it, let me know.

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Old 11-03-2012, 11:01 AM   #10
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I sent it to ya. After comparing the two maps(m16-001-017 and custom map). Mine seems to be leaner. This is why I want that autotune. I still smell fuel like crazy and my exhaust tip turns black.

Last edited by Bwalton; 11-03-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:24 PM   #11
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It doesn't matter where you start with the auto tuner. It can make live adjustments. Instead of doing say +5 it may do +20, but the end result is the same. There is no need to put any thought into where you're starting from as you'll end at the same place. Your settings in the auto tuner will dictate what your end map is regardless of where you start from. Just set the auto tuner up and let it do it's thing :)
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