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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A 2003 honda cbr600rr, performing valve clearance measurement, the circle window in my clutch cover gets stuck, so i cannot access the pulse generator bolt to manually cycle the engine to be able to get to each cylinders camshaft...with me? ok... so without thinking about it i removed the entire clutch cover, along with the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR, DOHH!! but it doesnt register in my mind because im focused on the valve clearance. so with entire clutch cover AND crankshaft position sensor completly unplugged and removed from the bike i proceed to cycle to motor manually with the pulse generator bolt...

QUESTION: did i completly ruin the timing by cycleling the motor manually without the crankshaft position sensor installed??????

the reason i ask is because after reassembling the motor would crank and fuel pump was there but i got no combustion whatsoever. like no boom at all. so i dripped some fuel down into throttle body and tried and it definetly did more than before. i coughed and sounded like it was trying and wanted to start but couldnt quite get there...

so definetly lack of fuel in cylinder at the right time is what im thinking the issue must be, but i dont know jack about timing or camshafty position sensors besides the basic idea of what they are...


any help would be so appreciated, ive been at it for weeks now and am stumped.

oh ya and so i ran the codes cuz the FI light was on and this is what popped up the first time....
code 1 map sensor - replaced that
code 23 oxygen sensor left side - replaced that
code 9 intake air temp sensor - replaced that...

after replacing these 3 parts plus the starter relay and battery it still wont start and now is still showing 3 codes. this time they are:
code - 9 intake air temp sensor? replaced this (bought a used one so it may be bad) still showing code
code - 23 - same oxygen sensor? weird cuz i bought a brand new one
code - 19 - crankshaft position sensor.. the only new code

i know thats a lot of reading im sorry i just wanted to provide as much detail as possible and thankyuou in advance for anyone who tries to contribute! if you have anyu ideas even if your not sure please let me hear them cuz im completly stumped at this point........
 

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No you didn't ruin your timing. The crank position sensor has nothing to do with the physical timing of the engine. It's all locked in with gears and chains. The sensor is just watching the position of the crank shaft.


Your codes are likely circuit (wiring) issues, as opposed to actual sensor issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
update 7-11-21.still cant get it to start, i inspected and fixed the entire wiring harness, cuz i too thought it was probasbly wirting issues. but it doesnt seem to have changed anything. it just doesnt make sense i sprayed starter fluid into throttle body, verified spark by pulling a plug and it still wont start. ive replaced half the parts, inspected, cleaned and serviced the rest, i just put fresh gas in,batterys brand new start switch is brand new and its still just cranking, no combustion whatso ever. its so frustrating. test engine cut relay, thats good. tested fuel cut relays thats good tested bank angle senmsor thats good. WHAT AM I MISSING??????

IM ABOUT TO PUSH IT DOWN THE STREET PUT THE KICKSTAND DOWN AND JUST WALK AWAY FROM THIS THING IVE TRIED EVERYTHING I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO
 

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Does it have compression

All this screwing around you did it's entirely possible you just washed all the cylinders with fuel. It may have just been flooded initially. Could have fouled all the plugs as well
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i dont have a leak down tester, when i turn the pulse generator it is very tough and i can hear air escaping different pathways throughout the block, and it ran perfecly fine before i started maintenance on it.

ok so say i "washed the cylinders with fuel, cuz yes that pump has cycled a hundrted times at least, how do i expel the fuel in the clinder? and what i assume to be residue of some kind leftover from it jusgt sitting for months? when i pulled the plug it looked good it was still brand new cuz thats one of the thin gs i did was cbange plugs. there was slight blacking on one side of electrode so theres evidence that at least partial combustustion is happening...
 

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If you pulled the clutch cover and crank position sensor, did you remove the sensor from the cover? If so it’s VERY easy to reinstall it upside down on the cover and it looks “right” to be that way but it’s of course not. If you see how they meet up once the cover is installed you’ll see it’s not correct in one orientation.

Just a thought…..

You have a crap ton of other errors, and I’m not sure what you mean by “fixing the wiring harness” so I have no idea what else could be wrong. But it will not run if the crank sensor isn’t in right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i dont understand ive heard thius before but to me it seems like there is literally only one way the sensor could possibly fit on the cover. so mayb e mine is backwards and im not seeing it. i just cannot figure out another way to bolt in this sensor while still having the rubber gromet fit into the hole thats precut for the wire to exit housing, i dont think its wrong ill try and take a pic of its orientation and post it here thankyou
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
also another update i cleared all the MIL light codes again. tried starting several times and the code has not returned, but it still wont start. and itll still cough and sputter and sound like its trying to start only with the flooded start procedure, i still have no combustion whatsoever if i dont twist throttle. new pulse generator gets here friday so im waiting for that right now.

thanks for the help hopefully this will be over soon.
i have tomorow off so im just guna start at square 1 first thing in the morning and try to rediagnose from the very beginning checking spark again and fuel and BAS and fuel cut realy ETC...
 

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i dont understand ive heard thius before but to me it seems like there is literally only one way the sensor could possibly fit on the cover. so mayb e mine is backwards and im not seeing it. i just cannot figure out another way to bolt in this sensor while still having the rubber gromet fit into the hole thats precut for the wire to exit housing, i dont think its wrong ill try and take a pic of its orientation and post it here thankyou
It can, trust me, lots of people have done it and continue to do it. The way it seems “correct” is the incorrect way from what I remember. If you look at the sensor in/on the cover and where its picking up on the engine you’ll see how the correct orientation is. Download the service manual for a view of it and directions on how it is supposed to go.

I‘m not there, and have zero idea what else your bike has had done to it by you if anyone else in its life. I’m just saying if you’ve done everything you’ve said you’ve done, and everything else is fine, it ran before you started and now doesn’t, and you removed the sensor from the clutch cover, it’s very easy to put back incorrectly. And you’ll have the exact same symptoms you’re describing.
 

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if it sputters on WOT then it has spark, if it has spark then it has crank position.


i have a feeling you just flooded the ever living bejesus out of it.

pull the plugs and torch them. put a teeny bit of oil in each cylinder (down the plug holes), with the plugs still out turn the engine by hand a few times


reinstall the plugs and do the WOT start procedure till it doesn't sputter


then attempt to start normally.



you honestly may have flooded it super bad and just made it worse and worse in all your attempted starting. so clear all that up and see if it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
roger ill give it a go in the morning thankyou. i just put some octane booster in with the gas to help it go boom.

what i ment by fixing the wiring harness is that i disconnected each connector, checked it for shorts or corossion and cleaned each terminal with solutiuon and a q tip. ive just heard on a video that connecting and disconnecting the ECM many times will cause that terminals to lose contact potentially, i didnt realize this and ive disconnected that thing many times, always carefully tho. so i tried my best to close the gaps on the female terminals as to achieve full contact.
 

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Just a squirt from an oil can. A few ml

It'll smoke a bunch if it lights but who cares if it's running
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
so the new pulse generator arrived today, put it in and same thing as before so i did what wibbly said and squirted some engine oil into cylinder, and it actually started to fire and rough idled for about 2 seconds, so im assuming it has to be not enough fuel is reaching the cylinder right? also i did try to burn out the cylinders and start it normally and it still wouldnt fire so i dont think its flooded, the lack of fuel im receiving actually saved me i believe from a massively flooded cylinder.

i tested the pump again using the manual for procedure it told me to connect positive voltmeter lead to the brown wire on the harness side and the negative to the green, then turn on ignition switch. my manual gets kinda confusing at this point because it says that it should read battery voltage for a few seconds, but then the very next step it says if reading battery voltage, replace the pump.....so it should read voltage but if it does then replace it? im using the clymer manual, there have been several instances in which their procedures werent exacvtly logical sounding.

so ive got a new fuel pump and filter on the way and im guna get some new fuel feed lines also.
 

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If you get power to it and it doesn't run, it says replace it. If you get power to it and it DOES run, there's no reason to replace it


You should not be buying parts.


You had a running bike, you messed with it, and now it doesn't run. No parts on the bike are going to break spontaneously you're just wasting your money.



Does the bike have a fuel controller like a power commander or anything

It might not hurt trying to bump start it. Do it in 2nd gear. The starter turns the engine pretty slowly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ya I read that wrong my fault. Anyway ya I haven't received the fuel pump yet I think I might just have too low of fuel pressure. When I disconnect the feed hose it doesnt really spray out it just kinda drips

Man this part is really tripping me out. I took off air box lod and sprayed starter fluid down throttle body and got nothing....so I again tried to put some engine oil into the cylinder and it started and ran (rough) but it ran for a few seconds...what does that mean?
 
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