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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2015 600 with 1800 miles is consuming oil at a rate of 1/3 quart every 700 miles. No black smoke or oil leaks. Took it to the dealer and they called Honda while I stood there. The Honda person said "consumption of a quart every 1000 miles is acceptable":surprise: The dealer did a double take in disbelief with what the Honda rep said. After he hung up he told me what they said, but expressed concerns about that assessment. So he took my suggestion of taking picture of site glass and miles for reference. I will go back to the dealer in a 1000 miles to compare levels.

I never had a bike do this so I am very skeptical about a quart a 1000 miles being acceptable. That is super wasteful and expensive over time. Does the community think this is normal consumption ?
 

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Not normal but i believe it. They prolly decided that after the oil burning issues with the 2008 1krr
 

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According to the Honda Manual you should replace your oil every 8,000 miles after the initial 600 miles. If it is acceptable for 1 quart of oil to be burnt every 1,000 miles than how are you suppose to reach the recommended 8,000 miles? I would argue that.

Unless the manual changed for the 2013+ models, I am assuming our manuals say the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
This is exactly what my dealer mechanic said talking about it to another mechanic. I will take it back in a 1000 and have the dealer confirm the issue and get back to Honda. If Honda sticks by their claim I will most likely seek legal council. I don't have confidence in a machine that does this. If I had known this was an acceptable oil consumption amount I would have went with something else.

According to the Honda Manual you should replace your oil every 8,000 miles after the initial 600 miles. If it is acceptable for 1 quart of oil to be burnt every 1,000 miles than how are you suppose to reach the recommended 8,000 miles? I would argue that.

Unless the manual changed for the 2013+ models, I am assuming our manuals say the same thing.
 

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I remember a time in my youth when I was working at a GM dealership. A very good customer had bought a used car with extended warranty. The problem was it had a rod knock. It did not get worse as fast as it should have. We all knew it was going to go, at some point, but the damn thing wouldn't fail outright. The warranty company would not look after it with a minor 'noise'...

Anyway, the customer is getting nervous because his new (to him) purchase had an engine issue but it was not bad enough for a warranty claim.

So, the service manager looks to me and explains the situation. He explains how the customer is really good and the customer is in the right. We all know there's an issue there - it's just a matter of when. Will it blow up in warranty or out of warranty?

The service manager looks directly at me and says..."it's too bad the situation is not worse so we can help the client". He then looks directly at me and says, "if you want to test drive it to see if the problem gets worse" :)

Well, low and behold, go figure, the problem got worse after work when I test drove it. In fact, it spun a bunch of bearings. As a result, the customer was able to make a warranty claim that met with the warranty company's policies, the client got a new engine, and all was well with the world.

But....that's the way the world worked when I was young. You looked after your customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This is what I am worried about, it fails beyond my 3 year warranty. The dealer is concerned, but Honda seems to be making up a new spec on the fly as a solution. They should put it in the owners manual what they consider normal oil consumption. I will ask them to put it in writing their assessment and what they consider normal. I am sure people would think twice about a motor that uses oil at that rate. if this was in the manual I would not have went with Honda.


I remember a time in my youth when I was working at a GM dealership. A very good customer had bought a used car with extended warranty. The problem was it had a rod knock. It did not get worse as fast as it should have. We all knew it was going to go, at some point, but the damn thing wouldn't fail outright. The warranty company would not look after it with a minor 'noise'...

Anyway, the customer is getting nervous because his new (to him) purchase had an engine issue but it was not bad enough for a warranty claim.

So, the service manager looks to me and explains the situation. He explains how the customer is really good and the customer is in the right. We all know there's an issue there - it's just a matter of when. Will it blow up in warranty or out of warranty?

The service manager looks directly at me and says..."it's too bad the situation is not worse so we can help the client". He then looks directly at me and says, "if you want to test drive it to see if the problem gets worse" :)

Well, low and behold, go figure, the problem got worse after work when I test drove it. In fact, it spun a bunch of bearings. As a result, the customer was able to make a warranty claim that met with the warranty company's policies, the client got a new engine, and all was well with the world.

But....that's the way the world worked when I was young. You looked after your customers.
 

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1qt per 1000miles is an industry standerd in on road vehicles. The owners manual will state it somewhere. There is no recourse to this, nothing you can force them to do about it. Picturing the sight glass after 1000miles with the oil level below minimum will only get your warranty voided.
It sounds to me like the motor wasn't broken in properly the rings never seated all the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Babied it around town for 500 miles. Oil changed by dealer at 300 miles. Oil never dipped below middle of site glass. Dealer took picture after filling to top from mid level for a record. After a 1000 miles it will be mid window. Never had a bike use this much oil between changes.

1qt per 1000miles is an industry standerd in on road vehicles. The owners manual will state it somewhere. There is no recourse to this, nothing you can force them to do about it. Picturing the sight glass after 1000miles with the oil level below minimum will only get your warranty voided.
It sounds to me like the motor wasn't broken in properly the rings never seated all the way.
 

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Babying is not what the rings want. They want cylinder pressure. Lots of throttle at low rpm's. Cylinder pressure helps push the rings againts the cylinder. High rpm's induce ring flutter if they are not seated which doesn't help anything so you stay out of the top half of the rev range.
If after 1000miles the oil is only at the middle of the acceptable range then that is exactly why honda thinks its ok. Thats alot of time and miles to check and top off, which according to the owners manual you are supposed to do every time you ride it [just thinking like a honda rep here to help ya understand, I was a honda/yamaha/suzuki/bombardier/polaris service writer for 2yrs]
 

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This is what I am worried about, it fails beyond my 3 year warranty. The dealer is concerned, but Honda seems to be making up a new spec on the fly as a solution. They should put it in the owners manual what they consider normal oil consumption. I will ask them to put it in writing their assessment and what they consider normal. I am sure people would think twice about a motor that uses oil at that rate. if this was in the manual I would not have went with Honda.
If it were my bike, and it had low miles with time to spare on the warranty, I would ride it and break it in. This kind of issue was common with the Northstar V8 - If I recall correctly they used low tension rings....

Now the problem was this, because it was a very advanced/hot rod engine they didn't take into account the intended audience, which was your typical Cadillac owner.....ie, a non-racing owner....

So the common complaint with the Northstar V8, back in the day, was oil consumption. This went hand in hand (typically) with the age of the owner....

So the solution was, that worked most of the time, to take the thing down the back road in first (manually selected) and wind the piss out of it until it red-line and then let off the throttle and let it coast back to idle (or thereabouts). Then, nail it again, right into red line, and let off and coast down. Rinse and repeat.

This cased a number of the issues in that respect.

I realize this is a bike and not the Northstar V8, but basically the advice we gave to all Northstar owners was to drive it like you stole it. The younger owners were able to do that with enthusiasm and the older ones would look at us funny. As such, on each oil change, for those folks, we took it down the back road and beat it mercilessly. The engine could easily take it, but the problem was the owner never dished it :wink2:

So if it were my bike, and there was time/mileage left on the warranty to experiment, this is what I would do. Wind the living piss out of it and see what it does.

I have little experience on the 600 as it's new to me, but my Honda 125 would not break in fully until about 3K on the clock. I re-built that engine often, have my own hone, and have gone through the break-in process many times with respect to seating rings.

In the case of the Northstar, it was more of a case of cleaning the oil rings. At any rate, I would be interested to hear what you find if you follow that advice. Like the Northstar V8, I'm sure the engine is a sound design, but if they used low tension rings it may well be a case of 'you need to beat it' into submission.

Hope this helps. BTW, do keep an eye on the oil level, what you really don't want to do is run it low. I think you said it had 1800 miles on it? If so, I really wonder if it is even broken in. Put another way, I would try the above before concluding there really is an issue :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Bayby meaning no extended highway riding all different speeds. The oil is definitly being consumed. I did not find it in the owners manual where 1 quart per 1000 miles is ok. A new bike should not do this. Sounds like Honda is making up their own specs as needed. Owned many bikes none did this. I dout it will get better and could get worse over time. Can you provide me an offocial Honda statement about what is acceptable oil consumption, going to need it. If the salse person made customers aware that Honda syas 1 quart per 1000 could happen and is acceptable, think it would sell well?

You yourself said it sounds like a piston ring problem. I agree with you.

Babying is not what the rings want. They want cylinder pressure. Lots of throttle at low rpm's. Cylinder pressure helps push the rings againts the cylinder. High rpm's induce ring flutter if they are not seated which doesn't help anything so you stay out of the top half of the rev range.
If after 1000miles the oil is only at the middle of the acceptable range then that is exactly why honda thinks its ok. Thats alot of time and miles to check and top off, which according to the owners manual you are supposed to do every time you ride it [just thinking like a honda rep here to help ya understand, I was a honda/yamaha/suzuki/bombardier/polaris service writer for 2yrs]
 

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Good news is ebay engines are cheap.. idk shakes head.
 

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You're welcome. I'm 46 and I'm finding the 600 quite a leap (for me) as I've only had my 125 before it. I'd encourage you not to get to down about it as it may well go away (settle down). The mileage on that thing is very low and you have lots of time on warranty so really, for now, it's just an inconvenience and a possible concern.

Like I said if it were mine, I know what I would do and it would not surprise me if there were low tension rings in it and they just needed the snot winded out of them repeatedly with some high RPM engine breaking to seat the rings.

Honda's are really well designed and built bikes. When Mr. Honda first started his first business deal (real one) was not making bikes but....making rings (!) for Toyota. He got a big order from them and...screwed them up. All of the Toyota's with Mr. Honda's rings burned oil and I think they were all recalled. That was his first real business experience. I saw a show on him and he never forgot that lesson - ever. In fact, in the Honda HQ there's a giant piston ring statue as a reminder.

It was a hard and early lesson and I have a hard time believing Honda would have forgotten it. High RPM with lots of high RPM engine braking and I bet they'll seat right in. Let's hope for that anyway but if it's a real problem - it should get worse and given that you have 3 years (!!) of leeway, I think your're golden no matter how it shakes out. I'm betting it's a temporary deal and it will settle down as they bed in.
 

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In your first post you said 1/3 quart in 700 miles (1qt/2,100 mi), which is very different than the 1qt/1,000 mi Honda acceptable-stated ratio discussed later.

What's the number you're experiencing right now?

I do think even your first number is too high, but as has already been suggested above, I'd ride the bike hard(er) rpm blasts up, and hard deceleration down repeatedly (it's fun anyway). See if that helps seat the rings and reduce oil consumption. Things should get better over time. Give it a try.

I know my '11 felt way different after a few miles. Not oil consumption, but MPG. Definitely got better.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I am doing a 1000 mile test monitor right now. The 1000 mile/quart was an acceptable specification by Honda. I think 1/3 quart for 700 miles is excessive, but 1000/quart is crazy consumption. My point is most people I have talked to in the industry would consider 1000/quart excessive and a sign of trouble. Impossible to sell a bike for typical market price with that much consumption.

I am hoping it does not get worse. I can live with 1/3 quart every 1000 miles.

In your first post you said 1/3 quart in 700 miles (1qt/2,100 mi), which is very different than the 1qt/1,000 mi Honda acceptable-stated ratio discussed later.

What's the number you're experiencing right now?

I do think even your first number is too high, but as has already been suggested above, I'd ride the bike hard(er) rpm blasts up, and hard deceleration down repeatedly (it's fun anyway). See if that helps seat the rings and reduce oil consumption. Things should get better over time. Give it a try.

I know my '11 felt way different after a few miles. Not oil consumption, but MPG. Definitely got better.
 

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I am doing a 1000 mile test monitor right now. The 1000 mile/quart was an acceptable specification by Honda. I think 1/3 quart for 700 miles is excessive, but 1000/quart is crazy consumption. My point is most people I have talked to in the industry would consider 1000/quart excessive and a sign of trouble. Impossible to sell a bike for typical market price with that much consumption.

I am hoping it does not get worse. I can live with 1/3 quart every 1000 miles.
I hear ya man, and agree. Good luck with it and hope the situation improves.

Fortunately you have the 3 year warranty in case (hopefully not) things drag on.
 
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