Absolutely dead (SOLVED)

406 Views 23 Replies 3 Participants Last post by Obi-1, 3 h ago

Obi-1

Discussion Starter · 14 d ago

Hi ya,just a query (sorry I’m on shifts so only able to reply when I get some space) saw on here a conversation with Moeman and it was about when turning ignition on the bike it totally dead and mine is the same-fuse behind battery is good (and also full charge on battery) however I did also have headlight trouble if this is at all related 🤷‍♂️(but seems trivial),and suggestions greatly appreciated-but sorry I’m only able to chat sporadically

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dannoxyz

· #2 · 13 d ago (Edited)

4

What's background on this bike?
When was last time it worked perfectly?
What happened between then and now?

Do you have multimeter and know how to measure voltage and resistance (ohms)? This is 5-minute fix with multimeter... or less even... Leave everything connected and measure...

1. measure battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ???
2. measure battery voltage with key ON, volts = ???
3. measure battery voltage at B-terminal of starter-solenoid, volts = ????
4. measure battery voltage at M-terminal of starer-solenoid, volts = ???

Look closely at solenoid body for B and M lettering. It varies from model to model.

5. pull 30a main fuse and measure resistance across legs. I'd be trillionaire if I had penny for every time I heard, "Fuse looks OK!", but actually didn't conduct electricity at all!

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Obi-1

Discussion Starter · #3 · 13 d ago

dannoxyz said:
What's background on this bike?
When was last time it worked perfectly?
What happened between then and now?

Do you have multimeter and know how to measure voltage and resistance (ohms)? This is 5-minute fix with multimeter... or less even... Leave everything connected and measure...

1. measure battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ???
2. measure battery voltage with key ON, volts = ???
3. measure battery voltage at B-terminal of starter-solenoid, volts = ????
4. measure battery voltage at M-terminal of starer-solenoid, volts = ???

Look closely at solenoid body for B and M lettering. It varies from model to model.

5. pull 30a main fuse and measure resistance across legs. I'd be trillionaire if I had penny for every time I heard, "Fuse looks OK!", but actually didn't conduct electricity at all!

Great,thanks for that -I’ll try and get hold of a ‘multimeter’ over the weekend and try that-fingers crossed its as you say!! But,yes I did look at the fuse and think ‘that’s okay’!!

Obi-1

Discussion Starter · #4 · 13 d ago

Never any issues before at all and bike worked perfectly last weekend,cleaned and put her away,then went to go for a quick evening run out and then just nothing🤷‍♂️ which makes me think/hope it’s something simple🤞

dannoxyz

· #5 · 13 d ago

Yeah, most likely something simple. Some basic measurements will track down where problem area is.

How to Use a Multimeter - SparkFun Learn

NewRedRider

· #6 · 12 d ago

What is a "full charge" on the battery to you? 12.0v? You should have 13.0v on a freshly charged battery. The bike may not crank if it drops below 12.4v.

Reactions: 1

Obi-1

Discussion Starter · #7 · 11 d ago

Got a multimeter and all good from the battery,30amp fuse onwards (really wished it was from this for my sake and yours-re trillionaire) managed to get a Haynes manual with wiring diagram so going to try fuses on left hand side of fairing as that seems like next in line-it does seem so trivial,but can it have something at all to do with the front light bulb at all??

dannoxyz

· #8 · 11 d ago

What voltage did you measure for:

1. measure battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ???

2. measure battery voltage with key ON, volts = ???

3. measure battery voltage at B-terminal of starter-solenoid, volts = ????

4. measure battery voltage at M-terminal of starter-solenoid, volts = ???

Headlight shouldn't cause any issues when key ON.

NewRedRider

· #9 · 11 d ago

Has someone been installing aftermarket headlights? Did they cut up the wiring harness?

Reactions: 1

Obi-1

Discussion Starter · #10 · 10 d ago

Only an aftermarket bulb mate,but there was a short in the yellow connector block under the rear seat a year ago-but no issues since

Reactions: 1

Obi-1

Discussion Starter · #11 · 10 d ago

Voltage was at 12 from the battery and also full coming through the 30amp fuse-so thinking it must be after that,gonna try the fuses on the left hand side behind the fairing and wiring diagram looks to point from there to the ignition🤞

NewRedRider

· #12 · 10 d ago

Obi-1 said:
Voltage was at 12 from the battery and also full coming through the 30amp fuse-so thinking it must be after that,gonna try the fuses on the left hand side behind the fairing and wiring diagram looks to point from there to the ignition🤞

Your battery voltage is way too low at 12.0v. You need 12.6-13.0v.

Reactions: 1

NewRedRider

· #13 · 10 d ago

With lithium based batteries now on the market I keep forgetting to point out that lithium batteries require a much higher voltage, 13.4-14.4v.

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dannoxyz

· #14 · 10 d ago

Lithium tend to be undercharged by charging systems designed for lead-acid cells. But still sufficiently charged to operate bike. At least should light up clocks. There's break in wiring somewhere that's cutting power completely.

Although 12v is way, way too low. Put on trickle-charger for 24-hrs before doing further testing. Want at least 13.0v to be useful. Otherwise, you need new battery. Then measure:

input wire to ignition-switch, red wire volts = ???
key ON, ign switch ouput wire, red/blu volts = ????
ign switch output wire, pink volts = ???

Reactions: 1

NewRedRider

· #15 · 10 d ago

dannoxyz said:
Lithium tend to be undercharged by charging systems designed for lead-acid cells.

I didn't even think about that. The R/R only puts out about 13.5-14.5v on a good day so it would never fully charge a lithium battery without a trickle charger. Me personally, I don't trust lithium batteries in my bike. I'm scarred by all the videos out of Asian countries where their scooters are exploding. In the elevator, in the garage, in the living room.

Nope. I'll stick with AGM for now thank you very much!

Reactions: 2

dannoxyz

· #16 · 9 d ago

Not sure which batteries those are, must be lithium-cobalt like used in laptops. Lithium-iron LiFePO4 batteries cannot overheat. Chemistry is super inert. You can put one on top of fire and when case melts and spills guts out, it will actually put out fire!

I've been using lithium batteries on all my bikes for past 10-yrs without any problems.

Reactions: 3

NewRedRider

· #17 · 8 d ago

dannoxyz said:
Not sure which batteries those are, must be lithium-cobalt like used in laptops. Lithium-iron LiFePO4 batteries cannot overheat. Chemistry is super inert. You can put one on top of fire and when case melts and spills guts out, it will actually put out fire!

I've been using lithium batteries on all my bikes for past 10-yrs without any problems.

Good to know! I don't know what that was all about. I'm thinking it was some kind of new lithium battery chemistry China was trying out that caused all of these issues. Is that why they were confiscating and destroying scooters by the thousands? I don't know.

Reactions: 1

Obi-1

Discussion Starter · #18 · 7 d ago

My mate uses AMG batteries and tried that but still no luck (he all so said the same about lithium ones too) but l gonna now try to see if the wires were cut when the ‘short’ was fixed and see if that throws any light-just the long game due to time😔 -but cheers guys👊👍

Reactions: 1

dannoxyz

· #19 · 7 d ago

Problem is in here somewhere at beginning of chain. Please measure and put some numbers down:

1. measure battery voltage with everything OFF, volts = ???

2. measure battery voltage with key ON, volts = ???

3. measure battery voltage at B-terminal of starter-solenoid, volts = ????

4. measure battery voltage at M-terminal of starter-solenoid, volts = ???

5. input wire to ignition-switch, red wire volts = ???

6. key ON, ign switch ouput wire, red/blu volts = ????

7. ign switch output wire, pink volts = ???

This is less than 5-minute fix with meter readings

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dannoxyz

· #20 · 6 d ago

Embedded in series of tests are some "trick questions" that shows whether you've measured properly or not. And it's obvious that you haven't. That's Ok, it's your choice to get this fixed in 5-minutes or not. Simple really...

Reactions: 2

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