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Okay so we had an interested chat today, granted all the people involved were Army and we are returning from Afghanistan, but still interesting none the less. We were talking about how Obama doesn't know how to ask the military leadership on the ground what they need to win the fight, but instead takes their suggestion, thinks it over for a few months, then comes up with a lower number than what was needed. I'm referring to Gen. McCrystal asking for 65,000 troops to help combat the insurgency in AFG, but instead Obama says "I'll give you 30,000." Bush was better at this as he asked all the leaders in Iraq (not just Gen Petreus) what they needed to win the fight and we would do our damnedest to get that for you. Now it's looking like Obama doesn't want to commit, kinda like back in another time (read: Vietnam), the lack of commitment lost us the fight.
Obama seriously needs to stop worrying about his public image and go with the men on the ground. Not to bash my leadership, but the joint cheifs doesn't know f^ckall about what's going on on the ground in AFG sitting in the Pentagon, they need to listen to the commanders in the field, then work to get them what they want. We don't need naval superiority so they can cancel all these new programs to improve an already strong Navy, what we need is better tactics and training, and give them the troops the leaders need to win.
What do you all think? Is Afghanistan a lost cause? Should we cut our losses and just bail? Or should we stay the course and win this so it doesn't turn into another Anarchist nation like Somalia?
 

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To me, Afghanistan wasn't worth it 8 years ago when everyone went over there. Sure bombing Al Qaeda was a good idea, but trying to stabilize that country is a waste of time. Afghans have been though this charade one too many times, they know the US isn't going to be there forever, they understand that eventually the US will pull out and the Taliban will be back terrorizing all those that betrayed them. Let the extensive history of this region be a lesson...

But most importantly, you can't force freedom/democracy onto those that don't want it/unwilling to sacrifice what's necessary to achieve it themselves. It just doesn't work that way no matter how hard you try. Not saying you don't help them achieve it... but the primary drivers have to be afghans, not the the US military.

In regards to Obama's leadership, it can go both ways... I think it's good that Obama is taking a hard serious look into this, that he's not just sending people needlessly into harms way. I think it's great that Obama came to show his respects to the fallen heros. I don't recall Bush ever doing the same... at least not publicly.

Additionally, from what I've read there were a few surge options presented by Gen. McCrystal... and that he was looking for around 40,000 more troops not 65,000. At the end of the day the Military is there to serve the people, if their duties are no longer needed/in the best interest of the country it's time for them to come back home. If they're not going back home, give them the tools they need to get the job done...
 

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I'm just sick of politicians doing things based off of what will make them look the best to the most people. What ever happened to standing by their original beliefs, instead of changing them suddenly because public opinion changes. If we could have a president who had the balls to just get some **** done without clusterfucking around for months looking at polls, there might actually be hope that one day this country could get $12 trillion dollars out of debt, and finished with these wars.
 

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I think to leave now would be disrespectful to those who lost their lives. The oil coming out of that area will pay for it, eventually..
 

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The Russians had to bail out after so many years the US will eventually do the same
 

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the oil pipeline & the opium farms in Afghanistan ($500B a year trade) is too lucrative to be left alone for somebody else to takeover.
 

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No one will ever be able to over take Afghanistan. Especially if the Pashtun people are still there. They're one of the oldest societies in the world. They didn't make it that far by being push over either. They're very honorable people towards each other.

So personally I think Afghanistan isn't worth fighting or dying for anymore. But if duty calls I will fight for my country.
 

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I've been in the military for 9 years now and I have deployed overseas 4 times, about to be a 5th in March. If I believe in why we are there or if I dont..I still have to do my job... Not because I care about the politicians back home but because of the people on my left and right. That's what everyone must realize. I go over there with one thing in mind.... Getting all my Soldiers home in one peice back to their families.
 

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how many more lives must be lost before y'all realize this war is for special interests.

this war isn't worth fighting & getting yourself maimed or killed just to get a paycheck.
 
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When I joined there wasn't a war in Aghan or Iraq...It's not up to me to determine when this war will end. Like I said before I do my job and that's that.

how many more lives must be lost before y'all realize this war is for special interests.

this war isn't worth fighting & getting yourself maimed or killed just to get a paycheck.
 

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The question comes back to, what do we have to gain, it doesn't seem like anything obvious which probably means it's business for some. A trillion dollars a year on defense is absurd you could buy everyone in the country 50,000 assault rifles with ammo each.
 
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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill
 
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yes it is still worth it... bottom line is business... but, i hope we gain some controll over the insane who are running around trying to blow everything up...

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
--Thomas Jefferson--
 

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Its just a case of a thirsty man and dirty water...

Are we over there so rich can get richer? To a degree yes, But are we also over there to surpress terriost training and atleast try to give good honest people freedom? Id like to believe more of the ladder but the road to hell is paved with good intentions...
 

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yes it is still worth it... bottom line is business... but, i hope we gain some controll over the insane who are running around trying to blow everything up...

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
--Thomas Jefferson--
Go put your blood on the line then, you have mis interrupted TJ's quote he for one would have never been in favor of this war. I don't thing most people would be a against a war with an obvious target but declaring Iraqis to be insurgents is insane, we by the very definition of the word are insurgents and if Stealth bombers isn't the very definition of a terrorist act what is ? Planes that sneak around and bomb target un announced without a formal declaration of war most times ? Washington himself attacked the Britts on Christmas which was deffinately considered then and now to be a terrorist strike. Yes a necessary one, but like all things whenever you attack another country you create combatants. Imagine what would happen if Obama flipped out and started killing Asains, then China swoops in and stops him. How long do you think the American people would then accept there presence ? And let's say reports are true and there was 500,000 civilian casualties here instead of Iraq, do you think you would still accept China's help then ? What if China was against everything you believe to begin with ?
 
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Go put your blood on the line then, you have mis interrupted TJ's quote he for one would have never been in favor of this war.

Have put my blood on the line, more than u think, and i would do it again if i was allowed to go back to what i was doing....

how do you know his quote doesnt fit those who suffer from "insurgents" bombings everyday over there? what about the freedom of those that live there that just want peace from a country that they loved, but is being runned by crooked political people.

Have u ever been there? have you ever put your blood on the line. That quote is universal it doesnt just apply to this country! Dont ******* talk to me unless you have seen it first hand, and have seen how greatful the majority of those people are over there! And times have changed, and war has changed. we no longer stand in front of each other and aim at one guy, when the ball hits someone else 20 feet down the line! we evolve to survive. just like the insurgents over there have evolved to give them the edge with their tactics!
 
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