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Clutch up wheelies or clutcless shifts did this to my gears

760 Views 11 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  tary preisser
7
or power shifts, or just age?...what do u think? & would you put these back in yer bike? (ps the first pic is 2nd gear)
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Looks OK....but why are you beating your sweetheart up like that?

(2nd gear looks a little worn at the the dog contact point, maybe use clutch from 1-2nd?)

IIRC, we used to remove the little burr from the worn area on your first pic, but that was 2stroke MX bikes a gazillion years ago........ Don't round off the shoulder, you want it sharp and square. (iirc?)

Really, unless you're using your bike as a limited lifespan track dog you aren't gonna gain much from no clutch shifting.
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Clutchless shifting is perfectly fine for most modern sportbikes. So I would say it's most likely poor shifting habits or light foot shifting. Especially if they're racing or riding really hard and are not used to clutchless shifting. When a rider is used to using the clutch there's a slight pause and shifting of their weight when they let off of the throttle moving the rider slightly forward. This takes pressure off of the shift lever of a standard shift pattern as the rider is trying to pull up on the lever at the same time. This is why I recommend clutchless shifting with a GP shift pattern as now instead of trying to pull up on the shift lever you are simply holding slight downward pressure on the shift lever and blipping the throttle. As soon as the engine unloads it moves into the next gear. It's doesn't take a lot of effort and the clutch is essentially useless at this point as there is no load on the clutch anyway for this split second. But you have to unload the engine by blipping the throttle. Holding the throttle and not blipping during clutchless shifting might result in this.
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Clutchless shifting is perfectly fine for most modern sportbikes. So I would say it's most likely poor shifting habits or light foot shifting. Especially if they're racing or riding really hard and are not used to clutchless shifting. When a rider is used to using the clutch there's a slight pause and shifting of their weight when they let off of the throttle moving the rider slightly forward. This takes pressure off of the shift lever of a standard shift pattern as the rider is trying to pull up on the lever at the same time. This is why I recommend clutchless shifting with a GP shift pattern as now instead of trying to pull up on the shift lever you are simply holding slight downward pressure on the shift lever and blipping the throttle. As soon as the engine unloads it moves into the next gear. It's doesn't take a lot of effort and the clutch is essentially useless at this point as there is no load on the clutch anyway for this split second. But you have to unload the engine by blipping the throttle. Holding the throttle and not blipping during clutchless shifting might result in this.
i rarely did any power shifts but do shift clutchlessly fairly frequently, if am lazy cruisin or spaced out i do messup every once in a while but i do get wat yer sayin about blipping & gear loading, i do it up and down alot on both bike and previous car for 'fun', (granted that i did ruin my 350z 3rd gear synchro but its likely from power shifts) , anyway iirc, i think at my last track day it didnt wanna go from 1st to 2nd one time, i think it happened a few times more on the road before i took it apart, but i was assuming its my cheap ebay china gp shifter not installed right or getting bent or something, afterall there were some bolts/bits lying around but i assumed it's cause its universal or wrong parts or wtvr and also couldn't find any other way to fit it... looking at what u guys are saying and thinking about, it looks like yer right on the money it's my clutchless shifting especially with neutral in-between there, looks like am light foot shifting 2nd. I was wondering at first if its clutch wheelies as i chicken out 3/5 of the times and as I let go of both clutch & throttle it usually bites with a painful thud, but again thinkin about it now, the dogs should be fully in place and shouldn't do this wear pattern, but bite the baskets instead (which i found also kinda toast), anyways am contemplating replacing just this gear as the stealership advised me but as far as i know meshing gears are replaced in pairs, or what is the practice here? this is my one in a lifetime rebuild and dont wanna regret puttin it back, but also don't wanna replace everything mindlessly and apply/learn nothing.. any ideas?
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Looks OK....but why are you beating your sweetheart up like that?

(2nd gear looks a little worn at the the dog contact point, maybe use clutch from 1-2nd?)

IIRC, we used to remove the little burr from the worn area on your first pic, but that was 2stroke MX bikes a gazillion years ago........ Don't round off the shoulder, you want it sharp and square. (iirc?)

Really, unless you're using your bike as a limited lifespan track dog you aren't gonna gain much from no clutch shifting.
good idea to deburr the edge, but i was thinking also of rounding off not the shoulder, but the end of the wear recess (like the wear ridges deep into the dog holes if it makes any sense) but the more i think about it the more i feel that any rounding i do will make it worse, like it will slide out under load on any rounded edge anywhere or something. Then i got thinking to widen the dog holes instead but thinking about the tools setup , milling bits, and proper measurements to get them all aligned with the dogs quickly got me ditching the idea, let alone if its even doable without cracking this hardened material or the strength of a skinnier gear or the rehardening that is probably needed, forgetting even the catastrophy of lockin up if it fails, so ... mayb ill just get a replacement gear pair
I am very much of a "I would rather have it and not nead it, than need it and not have it" kinda person lol. Going by what you said about "one time build", In this case the parts being needed or not, I would just get new parts if its all apart already. Depnding on actual $ of course, I have no idea what they actually cost or what budget you have.
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We all know that just about any gear set is a matching "pair" and installing one new gear on an older gear will only make them both wear out faster.
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We all know that just about any gear set is a matching "pair" and installing one new gear on an older gear will only make them both wear out faster.
does this apply to dog / slot pairs as well. Or just the meshing gear, coz

if not, then i just need to replace C2 & M2.
If yes, then C2 mesh with M2 & C6 dogs -> M6 & C3 slots -> M3/4 -> M5 & C4 -> C5 dogs -> C1 Slots-> mesh with M1 ..

got my self a new transmission already.
does this apply to dog / slot pairs as well. Or just the meshing gear, coz

if not, then i just need to replace C2 & M2.
If yes, then C2 mesh with M2 & C6 dogs -> M6 & C3 slots -> M3/4 -> M5 & C4 -> C5 dogs -> C1 Slots-> mesh with M1 ..

got my self a new transmission already.
I would think that logic applies to just about any matched gear/chain set set as a rear-end diff or cam and lifters or timing chain and gear set.
I would think that logic applies to just about any matched gear/chain set set as a rear-end diff or cam and lifters or timing chain and gear set.
So it doesnt apply to dog / slot pairs?
So it doesnt apply to dog / slot pairs?
I don't think so. I would just check them for any wear or abnormal play when you reinstall them. Maybe use the clutch for downshifting? That may have been where you ran into problems as the drum is loaded for engine braking.
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Wheelies aren't what bike is made for.

Maybe don't try to bang 1-2 clutchless any more?
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