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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
TLDR: Unmodified '11 plate will die after a 20-40 ride without any dash resetting and then will crank but not start for 2+ hours. OP has already checked the usual cutout switches and they're fine. Also (if the site will let me) vid posted at the end of where I got stuck till 1AM last night. Think rain + fog + cold + 9 hours waiting. Horror movie grade.

Heya all,

I'm at my wits end here with my pride and joy. Last night I spent 9 hours sitting next to a field waiting for breakdown services to come pick me up, in the rain, as the gremlins were out in force!

The basic info is its an unmodified CBR 600RR 2011 plate with a datatool S4 red alarm on it (which has had the 'recall' that the datatool S4's require apparently). Its been having troubles for a while and will randomly cut out if left to idle at a set of lights or if I come to a stop/pull in the clutch. Once the bike has cut out it'll light up, move the needle, prime the fuel pump and all that jazz quite happily but will only crank and refuse to start. If I crank it for long enough the dash will throw the error code 18 by blinking the engine light which apparently means "18 - Cam pulse sensor, connection or loose sensor".

Eventually, after about 2 hours or so I'll be able to either just start it up, like nothing's happened or bump start it down a hill. I've managed to avoid even getting caught up in this problem by if I'm desperate to use the bike to get somewhere and know it may give me troubles, I'll keep the revs above 3k when I come to a stop or pull the clutch in so the revs are kept above idle and it doesent get a chance to stall out. That usually does enough of the trick to keep me riding, at least until I get where I need to go. When the bike dies, it doesnt reset the dash or respin the rev counter. Just goes to 0RPM and basically sulks for the next few hours.

I've done the research on this site and jumpered the kick stand, the BAS, and the cut out switch with no results. Checked the fuses, swapped the relays around with known good ones. This issue has been intermittent for the past few months so its had new fuel in it and a new/charged battery on it.

I know what my next steps are - diagnose whether its fuel or spark thats not meeting in the middle and then trace back the fault from there, but its a difficult one to do as its so intermittent and takes so long for it to cut out that I cant take the thing to bits, ready for me to dive into the engine when its refusing to start and checking spark plugs and fuel lines, just for it to behave itself for a whole afternoon whilst its taken apart. The other side of that coin is that when it does happen, I'm usually some distance away from home and therefore have the struggle of getting the damned thing back again and then stripped down and by the time that I've got it to that stage, the bloody thing has decided to work again!

Does anyone have any ideas on what it could be? Such as R/R? Bad immobiliser (the S4 Red)? Squirrel in the air intake? Etc...

Also vid below of the worst place in the world at midnight, all alone waiting on a tow truck.

 

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first thing get yourself a clymers manual for your bike 40 bucks amazon on 04 model its tied into your cmp sensor. get a multi meter and turn on ignition, back check everything tied into that circuit, it'll take you time and youll probably want to punch something because its frustrating. its just wiring take your time.dont let all those wires scare you. do resistance check on the cam sensor make sur you are getting proper ohms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
FWIW, check out cam pulse sensor as MIL indicates?
That's quite a big task, but something I could do if I put my mind to it. For some reason I've got it in my head that the Cam error is just a generic one that actually means theres an issue somewhere upstream from it. I'll take a look into it, though I'm still up against the issue of the problem being intermittent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
first thing get yourself a clymers manual for your bike 40 bucks amazon on 04 model its tied into your cmp sensor. get a multi meter and turn on ignition, back check everything tied into that circuit, it'll take you time and youll probably want to punch something because its frustrating. its just wiring take your time.dont let all those wires scare you. do resistance check on the cam sensor make sur you are getting proper ohms.
I've got a Haynes manual for the bike, which is I'm guessing the UK varient of the Clymers. It has the required tests in it to check the CMP so I'll give it a go. I'm just wondering whether the Datatool alarm immobilises the engine through any of these connectors... though on second thoughts it stops the fuel pump from priming when it activates so it cant be the Datatool.

As far as the higher temps/running time thing goes I'm guessing that as the frame heats up when its acting as a heatsink for the engine, its either:

a) changing the resistance of a wire connected to something electrical thats already going bad, therefore runing the signal and making the ECM cut out the bike, or
b) a little bit of expansion is happening causing a bad connection which ruins the signal, cuts out the bike.

The reason the bike will restart after a couple of hours or so is because the frame has cooled down and everythings gone back to normal and the ECM is getting the right info.

Okay... CMP sensor test, here we go. I'll also check out how much one is and maybe just replace it for good measure if its cheap enough.

Open to more ideas tho guys, thanks for the input! Anyone with similar issues?
 

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If it were my bike, the first thing I’d do is remove and disable the alarm. It may not seem like it’s the issue, but rule it out before doing anything else. Alarms, even OEM ones, are notoriously bad and cause all sorts of issues.

From there I’d start removing bodywork and looking at the wiring harness, any connectors and anything bolted to the frame. I’d also check for any corrosion issues with grounding points, especially if you ride in the winter through the salt and muck.
 
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When was the last time any engine maintenance was done (valve clearances especially), the Datatool can be taken out ,any motorcycle mechanic would probably charge about £50 but you can do it yourself ,most joins are just spliced in but there are a few that are cut and need to be joined again (soldered), first thing is to have a bucket of water , cut that alarm off an throw it in the bucket till it shuts up, it is a daunting job and a mechanic would be the safest way as all the wires are black, took mine out of a 954
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If it were my bike, the first thing I’d do is remove and disable the alarm. It may not seem like it’s the issue, but rule it out before doing anything else. Alarms, even OEM ones, are notoriously bad and cause all sorts of issues.

From there I’d start removing bodywork and looking at the wiring harness, any connectors and anything bolted to the frame. I’d also check for any corrosion issues with grounding points, especially if you ride in the winter through the salt and muck.
I agree totally, though the issue is that I've had one bike nicked before and this one actually went walk abouts from outside my house when some little toerags decided they wanted a joyride. Real idiots as well. They thought a screwdriver down the ignition would start it and then they started ripping wires to 'hot-wire' it. Morons. The alarm was the reason I got the bike back as it was screaming its head off in a bush and someone rang the police.

Before anyone says anything, this issue was happening before this happened so its not the repairs that have changed it.

The alarm should be stopping the fuel pump from priming though, if it was the issue, and the pump primes and I can smell petrol coming out the exhaust if I crank it, so I doubt thats the issue. I do hate alarms though. They often cause more trouble than its worth.

As far as the wiring, thats what I'm going to be double checking. Ground points are always something people note and I'll be checking them, especially around the Cam sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
When was the last time any engine maintenance was done (valve clearances especially), the Datatool can be taken out ,any motorcycle mechanic would probably charge about £50 but you can do it yourself ,most joins are just spliced in but there are a few that are cut and need to be joined again (soldered), first thing is to have a bucket of water , cut that alarm off an throw it in the bucket till it shuts up, it is a daunting job and a mechanic would be the safest way as all the wires are black, took mine out of a 954
Engine maintenance I do quite regularly. New sparks, new air, new oil on a quite tight schedule, but the valve's havnt been done and the bike hasnt done enough miles to warrant it yet. I'll double check the log book though. Just out of curiosity, would bad valve clearances cause this issue?

£50 doesnt sound too bad until I want the alarm back again due to the aforementioned idiots who keep trying to nick my bike. If its not the alarm, which I dont think it is, thats £100 to end up back in the same place I started.

I've seen the mass of black wires coming from it and from what I know, its all about the splice they put in between the fuel pump and the ECM. I could do it myself but I've had issues with alarms kicking in whilst riding before (the Datatool S4's used to overheat and kick in at random times and I had that happen to me whilst I was riding out on the road. Needed to get it recalled and replaced) and its not that kind of shut off. The dash doesnt reset, the fuel pump doesnt need to reprime and it only happens at idle. The bike would run for 500 miles as long as it was above 3k rpm.

Thats not to say I wouldnt love to down the little SOB in a bucket if I could. Alarms are a pain.

Congrats on taking your own out! Theres 0 info available to remove these things and its defo high on my list of jobs I'd hate to have to do.
 

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mine was recently not starting/ hard to start, stalling at lights, a real head scratcher, would prime and turn over but not start, turned out to be wires connecting to the battery, was the last thing i suspected. i believe the ECU is very susebtable to slight drops in power
 

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A crispy fresh battery is critical to these bikes running right.

Are you on OE battery?

My 09's battery lasted about 4 years (or less) with regular 100+ mile rides every week.....and when the Battery gets a bit weak it really makes weird behaviors happen

Check battery before you go after CKP?.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey guys and girls, apologies for the wait for any updates on this. I had a bit of a wait whilst parts got delivered.

In the meantime I followed your advice as much as possible and decided to test the CMP sensor to try and get a proper diagnosis. Unfortuantly my bike had other ideas so after running all the required tests before doing the peak voltage test, shes decided to start and run for the first time in a couple of months....

As I type I've got her chained up outside, running for the last 40 mins to try and see if she'll stall out but so far nothing..

Anyways, I managed to use this link to build my own peak voltage adaptor for less than £20 rather than the £100+ that you get charged for a commercial product and it works really well. I used this (22uf 450v capacitor), this (univeral digital multimeter probe leads), and this (Elegoo upgraded electronics kit) to make this:

225496


225497


Easy enough really!

I'll be replacing the CMP sensor anyway later regardless, but I'll update this thread with any new info as it was quite hard to narrow this down even this far.

Big shout out to anyone who replied in this convo, thanks for your input, and an especially big shout out to MeatyBeaty for the info he messaged me! All was really useful, thanks guys.

Hopefully this will be fixed now and maybe this thread might help someone else out in the future!
 
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