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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Good afternoon guys, I hope you guys could help me out as I am on my wits end in regards to my bike not starting. I know this is going to be a long post so please bear with me.

I am the third owner of this bike and when I first got it about 5-6 years ago from the second owner, I noticed that the battery will not stay charged more than 3 days, and even fails with a battery tender. Over the years I tried to troubleshoot the issue and what could be leeching the battery to no avail. I have tried to remove each fuse and even all of them removed and still get about 26 ma draw. Needless to say I went through a couple of batteries in the last few years (maybe 4 or 5) and resorted to disconnecting the ground on the bike when not in use.

Well in the last few days, I have gone and tired of reconnecting the battery and bought a regulator/rectifier from Amazon (I know poor choice, I should've went OEM but was just going to test to see if it is the problem and would get an OEM afterwards as they are 300+ vs 50, but at the end, this ended being more costly). I tested my rectifier and seems OK and the cheap rectifier was fine outputting 13.9 to 14 and was slightly under the typical 14.5. It was running fine in the last 2 days and even went to get the battery tested, and was told it just slight undercharged.

I rode it for 3 hours two days ago and was fine but was still getting battery draining issue so I then decided to just unplug it again. I haven't put the OEM rectifier back and yesterday I decided to ride. The bike started fine, no issues at all. About 35 mins into the drive while in the freeway, the bike began to stall a bit but keep running in the end, still no issues after a few minutes and I found it really weird, thought I would check it when I get back. Well 30 mins later, it started to stall again but this time it finally died, while still in the freeway and lucky I was on the right side next to an exit. I attempted to crank the bike but the battery was flat.

I called a lyft and went to the parts store to get a fresh battery. I was expecting it to start the moment I plug it in but it cranked and cranked and nothing. Will not start. No FI code. Unfortunately I was not able to get it started and had to push it to a parking lot where I left it and picked it up with a uhaul trailer and brought it home. I removed the cheap rectifier and put the OEM again and then started it. Same, will not start. I read about flooding the bike after a stall or after multiple restarts and did the WOT trick and nothing, even jumping it with my car to keep trying the WOT technique. I then changed the oil and the spark plugs. The oil did smell like gas. I replaced every single fuse, even the spares. Tested the voltage. Nothing. As I was doing this, ironically I found what was eating my battery and it was a lojack installed presumably by the original owner without the seller telling me about it. I removed that and now the draw is only .5 ma but left with a bike that doesn't start. I pulled the spark plugs and I don't see any spark, even switching with a different coil. I traced all the wired and made sure everything was snug but nothing.

The only thing I haven't done is the stator, and I am not sure if that would lead to no spark if it's bad even with fresh battery. I don't want to open that side up if it's not a possible issue but so far I have no FI code. I am out of ideas honestly and not sure what else could be wrong because the bike was running fine before the stall. I can upload a video if needed but essentially you can hear the bike turn but just not starting and not sure what could be causing the lack of spark, which is leading to it not starting. I have also checked the bike stand and the engine kill switch, they work correctly. Please experts of 600rr.net, help a lost brother out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Update:

I guess I am wrong on the no spark. When I was testing the spark, I pulled the igniter and have the spark plug in it and was trying to watch the spark on the tip but wasn't seeing any. After posting I attempted again to start it up. Instead of holding the start button I began to push the button intermittently and I felt it catch a little bit. I attempted again and felt it start less than half a second and stopped. By then the battery had drain so I connected it to my car and began the same process, then I heard it backfire, really loud like a gunshot. I checked everywhere to makes sure nothing was broken. I tried the WOT again but this time pressing the button intermittently then tried it again. After a few attempts I got it to start maybe a second but died again. I had to wait for the battery to gain charge again and tried again and backfired loud once more. I now sincerely believe it is mainly because of the fuel being flooded but I still can't get it to run. I have to try again later but not sure if I am doing it right to clear it. I even done the WOT starts for a long time hoping it would clear out but not sure why it seems it doesn't go. I want to take it to a shop as well but there are not many places in my area at the moment that works on bikes and I've called and left messages to make appointment but never calls back. I just want it to start even if the idle would be rough as hell so that I can clear it out. Does waiting a few days longer help clear it from being flooded? if I don't touch it per se a week, would that dry out the fuel in the cylinder?
 

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Fuel injected bikes are pretty hard to flood (assuming multiple injectors aren't malfunctioning, an unlikely thing). And yes just waiting will evaporate the gas from the cylinders. The potential issue is that the plugs got fouled and are coated with grime helped by the unburned gas.

A bad stator won't stop your bike from starting (it'll start and run right up to the point your battery is drained since it's not charging).

I think your calling the spark plug coil an igniter. With the plug in the coil (but obviously out of the cylinder) you want to touch the bottom electrode (on plugs with more than one it doesn't matter which) onto something solidly metal like your bike's frame. Then attempt to start. You should be seeing constant sparking.

Rule out coils and plugs by taking them out and cleaning them and testing for spark.

I assume you're hearing the pump prime and have good gas so fuel can be ruled out.

The backfire was likely because you had a lot of gas in the cylinders from all those starting attempts.

There's a lot going on here. You have to take this step by step.

What would stop it from starting/running is a bad cam position sensor (among other things).

But I'd make sure the three key ingredients for combustion are good before investigating more unlikely things.

Air
Fuel
Spark

Then electrics (unless nothings working, then electrics first).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for your response. I am not sure really what's going on with it, and yes the igniter I was talking about is the coil, I couldn't find the right term, thank you. The spark plugs are new, I replaced them yesterday, so they are not foul. I did pull one up today to check for spark and it seems like I am not getting anything as I grounded it to the head of the motor, which is perplexing because yesterday I tried to yolo start it and I got the backfires and all and the 1 second run and immediately die. When I pulled the plug, it looked like this:

225606


It is definitely wet so I guess it is still flooded? The oil was changed yesterday too for extra measure. I pulled the kill switch and can verify it was making good contact. I am not sure where the cam position sensor is, thinking it is at the bottom of the clutch cover, the big plug with a blue single wire on it. How do I run a test to see if it is that? It is just odd that it attempted to start yesterday if I am not getting any spark at all but when I pull that plug (the far right of the 4 because of ease of access). I ordered 4 relays to replace all of them and will arrive in 10 days, just to rule those out also and give me peace of mind. I already moved those relay around too so I am thinking it's not that anyway. SO lost with this bike, It was working well until the stall, and thought it was just the battery as it was flat due to the bad rectifier giving under volt. Oh the video of it not starting is below so you can hear the fuel prime and crank/turn over.
 

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Any chance you got bad gas or was the bike out in heavy rain?

Frequently when people have these symptoms the fuel system sucked in some water or contaminant.

I know it sounds like a pain but just do this methodically. You'll save time in the end.

Step 1: Pull the plugs, clean them and check for spark. You'll learn a lot if you find none are firing vs. just some are not firing.

If only some are not firing replace those plugs. If still not firing, replace those coils.

Attempt to start. Just once or twice, don't keep at it. If no joy go to step 2.

Drain the tank. Put a small amount of known good gas back in (1 gallon or so) . Don't hook up the fuel line just yet. Put a container under the fuel pump nipple and cycle the pump 4-5 times (i.e. turn the bike on and off). Each time you'll get a 1/8 cup or so of gas. This will assure you got everything out of the pump. Hook fuel line back up. You now know you're getting good gas and you have spark.

You already know your starter motor is good. So if she's not catching it's something less common.

CPS (Crank Position Sensor) tells the bike where the pistons are in their cycle so it knows when to send spark. If that's toast bike will never run. Not expensive and not too difficult to swap out. You should be able to unplug and test it. It looks like this (08 uses same one) :

 

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BTW when grounding the plugs make sure you're on bare metal, not painted. If they're working right you can't miss the sparking, it's not subtle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'll pull the plugs again today and clean them out. I recognize the CPS now, I remember seeing it when I pulled my clutch out to inspect. Is there a way to test it without pulling it out and replacing it. Issue I have right now is I am moving in 3 weeks. I don't want to open the bike up as I have already shipped most of my major tools and the bike I may have to trailer to the shipping company (currently in an island at the moment, moving to mainland US) if I can't get it to start. Hence the reason why of the limited shops and part availability. I will try to pull the plugs and check for spark and also replace the fuel. I did gas up a day prior to it stalling, I didn't even think of bad gas and I did go to a place I have never been before. Got to run to the auto store and see if they have a siphon. Thanks for the help, I really do appreciate it. And if I don't get it resolved by the time I ship it, I will continue when I get it to my garage in the mainland, get a new CPS and replace it.
 

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Here's a good article how to test CPS from a guy with your same issue:


Make sure you cycle gas through your pump. They can hold a surprising amount of gas so just draining and refilling the tank won't fix the problem. Catch the gas in a clear container and have a look. If you have stuff that looks like snot at the bottom then bad gas is definitely your issue. Below is pic of gas I drained out of a 600RR. Bottom third is contaminated with water, the 'blobs' are water that sank to the bottom (water being heavier than gas). This bike did not start :)

It's also a good idea to spray brake cleaner into the fuel supply hose going to the injectors. This will displace any water and then evaporate.

Bike will still be a little hard to start initially since it will take a few times for the fresh stuff to reach the injectors.

Assuming spark is present and CPS is telling them to fire at the right time.

Good luck.

225609
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OK I was going to drain the tank but I needed a siphon but I was charging the battery so in the mean time, I decided to pull the plugs and clean them off. All of them were definitely wet so I wiped them off. They are brand new so they are not fouled at all. I then pulled every single one and the harness to check for spark. Nothing, All 4 of them in any position and combination of the coils. As you can see from the picture below, I am grounding the spark plug by the bolt on the frame. I did not see any spark at all on any of them. Could it be the ECU? But that means my gauges wouldn't work I think, but it does so it couldn't be it. Also when I hit the Kill Switch I can hear the relay click on the engine stop as well so that couldn't be it. The fuel primes so I am guessing the BAS works as well because from what I am reading, it would not prime the fuel if it's bad. I tried the kickstand both on and off to negate that as well and still nothing. I haven't done the test on the CPS, I have to read and to that next but if it is the CPS, It may have to wait until I get back to mainland US. Will a bad CPS fully stop it from sending any spark? I'm scratching my head on why I was able to get it backfire two days ago but yet not getting any spark, something doesn't add up...

225610


Edit: holding off pulling the fuel until I figure out the spark issue as it is moot. I want to add that I was able to get it to start and backfire by pushing the start intermittently and not constantly. When I did the spark test I held the button constant.
 

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You need to ground the bottom electrode on the plug to the frame. In the photo it looks like you're holding the side of the plug. You won't get any spark that way.

225611
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update: I ordered a CPS and a used ECU. I will update this thread later once the parts are in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Update: I received the ECU and swapped it over and still no joy. Still awaiting for the CKP to arrive and now my next step. I am also waiting for new relays but I bet the relays I have are good because I can hear it them click when you switch the ignition. Here is the run down on what I have checked and done so far.

Bike Status: When switching on, everything is normal, fuel primes and you can hear the relays activate. Hitting the start button turns over the bike but doesn't catch and start even with WOT technique.

1. New Battery
2. Oil Change
3. Replaced Spark Plugs
4. Replaced all fuses
5. Replaced gas (siphoned and emptied by priming the pump, verified works)
6. Tested kick stand with multi-meter and acts normal
7. Bypassed BAS by jumping the outer connectors.
8. Tested CKP with multi-meter and verified I get voltage with it's disconnected and hitting the start button, although I cannot verify if it hits the minimum required 0.7v needed as I ordered a Peak Voltage Adapter and it hasn't arrived.
9. Tested for spark, not getting any at the spark plugs even when grounding directly to the battery with a jumper cable. Tested connectivity at the connector and getting the correct voltage.
10. Pulled the clutch in when starting to see if it's the neutral switch but still same result. Checked the neutral switch with multimeter and checked out so far.
11. Checked for FI codes by jumping the connector (brown + green) and no codes. Reset ECU for extra measure.
12. Replaced ECU, still the same.
13. Check ground continuity from the ground connector to the frame and checks out.

My last step and only hope is replace the CKP/CPS when the part arrives. I have tried pretty much everything but this and per the service manual, with having no spark, it can either be faulty ECU (which I doubt with having it replaced and still same result) or I am really hoping, is the CKP to which I will replace next when it arrives. This has been the most pain in the ass experience I had so far troubleshooting this issue. I highly doubt it's the coils as the likelihood of all 4 failing should be slim.
 

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Good afternoon guys, I hope you guys could help me out as I am on my wits end in regards to my bike not starting. I know this is going to be a long post so please bear with me.

I am the third owner of this bike and when I first got it about 5-6 years ago from the second owner, I noticed that the battery will not stay charged more than 3 days, and even fails with a battery tender. Over the years I tried to troubleshoot the issue and what could be leeching the battery to no avail. I have tried to remove each fuse and even all of them removed and still get about 26 ma draw. Needless to say I went through a couple of batteries in the last few years (maybe 4 or 5) and resorted to disconnecting the ground on the bike when not in use.

Well in the last few days, I have gone and tired of reconnecting the battery and bought a regulator/rectifier from Amazon (I know poor choice, I should've went OEM but was just going to test to see if it is the problem and would get an OEM afterwards as they are 300+ vs 50, but at the end, this ended being more costly). I tested my rectifier and seems OK and the cheap rectifier was fine outputting 13.9 to 14 and was slightly under the typical 14.5. It was running fine in the last 2 days and even went to get the battery tested, and was told it just slight undercharged.

I rode it for 3 hours two days ago and was fine but was still getting battery draining issue so I then decided to just unplug it again. I haven't put the OEM rectifier back and yesterday I decided to ride. The bike started fine, no issues at all. About 35 mins into the drive while in the freeway, the bike began to stall a bit but keep running in the end, still no issues after a few minutes and I found it really weird, thought I would check it when I get back. Well 30 mins later, it started to stall again but this time it finally died, while still in the freeway and lucky I was on the right side next to an exit. I attempted to crank the bike but the battery was flat.

I called a lyft and went to the parts store to get a fresh battery. I was expecting it to start the moment I plug it in but it cranked and cranked and nothing. Will not start. No FI code. Unfortunately I was not able to get it started and had to push it to a parking lot where I left it and picked it up with a uhaul trailer and brought it home. I removed the cheap rectifier and put the OEM again and then started it. Same, will not start. I read about flooding the bike after a stall or after multiple restarts and did the WOT trick and nothing, even jumping it with my car to keep trying the WOT technique. I then changed the oil and the spark plugs. The oil did smell like gas. I replaced every single fuse, even the spares. Tested the voltage. Nothing. As I was doing this, ironically I found what was eating my battery and it was a lojack installed presumably by the original owner without the seller telling me about it. I removed that and now the draw is only .5 ma but left with a bike that doesn't start. I pulled the spark plugs and I don't see any spark, even switching with a different coil. I traced all the wired and made sure everything was snug but nothing.

The only thing I haven't done is the stator, and I am not sure if that would lead to no spark if it's bad even with fresh battery. I don't want to open that side up if it's not a possible issue but so far I have no FI code. I am out of ideas honestly and not sure what else could be wrong because the bike was running fine before the stall. I can upload a video if needed but essentially you can hear the bike turn but just not starting and not sure what could be causing the lack of spark, which is leading to it not starting. I have also checked the bike stand and the engine kill switch, they work correctly. Please experts of 600rr.net, help a lost brother out.
Mate its a bad fuel pump i am 100%sure when bike gets old tank gets rusted i side and lilttle particle gets deposit which blocks the fuel supply and destroys fuel pump even when fuel pump primes when u turn on bike
So you gotta clean the fuel tank with apple cider vinegar and check the fuel pump the only way is you gotta take your fuel tank out lots of video in youtube ,may this will help you coz i had same prob changed battery everythibg fuel full tank but after 39 mnts ride bike stall and dies and no start so i checked my fuel pump and it was damn rusted inside it was like mud sluggisg think so changed my fuel pump cleaned the tank since than no problem at all my bike .
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the response, although I am not sure that is the issue but I will make a note. The main reason I say this is because if you look at #5 on my latest update, I used the fuel pump to finish emptying the tank when I replaced the gas to get it out of the equation. I clearly saw it pump out the remaining gas out. Right now I am waiting for CKP and CMP. The main issue is I am not getting spark at the plugs. Checked neutral switch, kill switch, side stand and BAS. Tested CKP and CMP with multi-meter and gets voltage on both but not sure if they are within spec as I am still also awaiting for my peak voltage adapter to arrive. Also, I can smell gas on the exhaust so fuel is getting delivered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Final Update:

First before anything else, I have got to say, despite everything that happened, I was quite lucky it's didn't become more serious. I'll post the pictures below as to why this is the case. I would like to add that although this experience had been very frustrating to me, it allowed me to learn more about my bike in the process and was able to diagnose and learn about the other components of the bike. Thanks BAT-1 and gurkhacbr600r for participating in this discussion. To those who have at least viewed my post, thanks as well. I have read many posts here on this forum and the one thing I noticed is the lack of follow up when they figured out the issue and fix. I seriously hope that trend stops as it makes it harder for those having similar issues. Please share your updates even if you ended up taking it to the dealership and share the issue and how it was resolved. This way the community can continue to grow.

With that said, I finally went ahead today and opened up the clutch cover to physically inspect the CKP. To my surprise, the moment I opened it up, the CKP fell to which I was really surprised as it's meant to be held by two bolts. I looked at the CKP and the face was grinded by the gear it's supposed to be sensing. I looked closely and the two bolts were lodge at the bottom. I am extremely lucky on how they fell, if not, the damage would have been catastrophic. I was super super lucky, I can't even believe it. Just to keep it short, I put the sensor back with the bolts on and closed the cover to test the bike and it fired up like there was not even an issue ever. Wow.

I am now waiting for my new sensor, will replace it regardless now that I have it open and awaiting for the part that is coming either tomorrow and the next day, including the Honda Bond 4. I am not sure how it got loose as I never took it out ever, and when I inspected my clutch the last time, I held the cover with a string so that I never had to touch it. Will definitely be buying thread locker when I install the new one. That's it guys, I hope it helps out someone in the future if someone was having the same issues.

225630

225632
 

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Thanks for the response, although I am not sure that is the issue but I will make a note. The main reason I say this is because if you look at #5 on my latest update, I used the fuel pump to finish emptying the tank when I replaced the gas to get it out of the equation. I clearly saw it pump out the remaining gas out. Right now I am waiting for CKP and CMP. The main issue is I am not getting spark at the plugs. Checked neutral switch, kill switch, side stand and BAS. Tested CKP and CMP with multi-meter and gets voltage on both but not sure if they are within spec as I am still also awaiting for my peak voltage adapter to arrive. Also, I can smell gas on the exhaust so fuel is getting delivered.
Yes when fuel pump is bad it cranks but no start u can smell the fuel as well but the amount of fuel needed to be released by fuel pump to start and keep runnning can't be released i am saying this because full fuel tank new battery when u start 1st everything fine rides nice and after 20-30mnts stall and dies and after that man no start at all it just keeps on crancking but no start at all anyway give it a try after i changed fuel pump cleaned tank never had problem at all i was lucky fuel new pump cost 800$ in delaership ebay used 400$ luckily got for 20$ for same year on fb marketplace.
 
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