[darkfader]

i feel like a total douche bag. so go ahead and flame on, i deserve it. it goes like this - put brand spankin new Q2's on this morning. i realize i need to be extra cautious until they are scrubbed in. i take it extra easy on the first lap and halfway through the lap, i very slowly lowsided it. it was instantaneous. no warning whatsoever. it was like i hit a patch of ice. so both myself and the bike gently slide off into the grass and i stand her up and wait for the tow truck to come around. busted a clip on pretty bad so i sat out two more sessions till i got the bike sorted out to ride. i decide to ride with b group so i can take it slow for a complete session and hopefully get the tires scrubbed. no problems, do a nice b session and just followed a mellow rider around. back in the pit, i inspect the tires and they look pretty damn scrubbed to me so i feel a little more confident and rejoin I group for the next session. the bike felt good and i kept a decent pace and concentrated on being smooth while still taking it easy. session went well. next session we ride for two laps and get a red flag so we re-enter pit. this is where i feel the worst about this whole thing. the track gets cleaned up and we are re-started. my second lap of the restart i lay the bike down again. different turn and much higher speed. again there was no warning at all. the bike just lowsided and left me. i'm really frustrated because i can't figure out what i did wrong. did i try to lean it too much, or were the tires still not ready? should i never ride the Q2's again on my track bike?

i'm still very much a noob at the track but the coaches said i was progressing well and had good form and good lines for I group on my last day at the track. i had been to this track before as well. although it is very technical.

the bike's banged up pretty good. both clip ons, rear spool was torn off the swing arm, :banghead: fairing stay, rear set, gauges took a little hit, lots of body damage and looks like sub frame is tweaked. hopefully it's just the tail body work. i didn't see if it flipped but there's bruises all over it. my gear held up ok, i'm fine, helmet never touched the ground!:banger: put a hole in the leathers and scuffed gloves but it's all good. i was hoping if any of you more experienced track riders and racers would leave comments or your thoughts. i'm a little critical of myself but maybe this has happened to others? i guess i want to know what i should've done differently. thanks

 

[Beast6rr]

Scrubbing tires is a myth and so is swerving to warm up tires according to this article
http://www.sportrider.com/tips/146_0810_how_to_warm_up_new_tires/index.html

 

[Kurosaki]

What was your tire pressure?

 

[darkfader]

28 front and rear cold. when i was saying "scrubbing the tires", i was meaning just good accelerating and braking while upright. not swerving, i would never do that. here's something too - the rear tire has a 2 inch wide really smooth chicken-type strip in the side i lowsided on and regular rougher wear on the rest of the tire. front is similar, just a smaller strip. what's that about?

 

[Beast6rr]

28 front and rear cold. when i was saying "scrubbing the tires", i was meaning just good accelerating and braking while upright. not swerving, i would never do that.

I know what you meant but I was just trying to pass on what the article stated. Did you read it? It says you don't have to break in brand new modern tires because they use different methods of releasing tires from the mold. You just have to run the right pressure and warm them up properly with tire warmers and take it easy for a couple of laps.

I'm giving you advice from an expert but if you rather get it from members of a forum go for it. I know my post count isn't high but I directed you to an expert on tires that work with PROS.

 

[cbr6racr]

I know what you meant but I was just trying to pass on what the article stated. Did you read it? It says you don't have to break in brand new modern tires because they use different methods of releasing tires from the mold. You just have to run the right pressure and warm them up properly with tire warmers and take it easy for a couple of laps.

I'm giving you advice from an expert but if you rather get it from members of a forum go for it. I know my post count isn't high but I directed you to an expert on tires that work with PROS.

Wow dude, way to take things a bit personally. I don't think he was bashing the info you gave him, just giving you what he was doing. Chill, home-slice!


OP, could it be a suspension issue? I have no clue, just don't crash. That's my best advice.

 

[Beast6rr]

Wow dude, way to take things a bit personally. I don't think he was bashing the info you gave him, just giving you what he was doing. Chill, home-slice!


OP, could it be a suspension issue? I have no clue, just don't crash. That's my best advice.

Home-skillet I wasn't taking it personal. He asked for advice and I directed him to an article from an expert. If he had read the article before he responded, it would have answered a few of his questions about scrubbing tires

 

[Kurosaki]

OK. we get it. Move on.

That's not helping him solve any questions about why he crashed.

 

[1/4milecrazy]

Scrubbing in tires is BS, plain and simple.

I run Q2s on both my bikes, both have been to the ttrack on the Q2s, both when the tires were brand new, one lap a little easy on them, next lap full pace. I run mid pack Intermediate.

I just replaced my rear tire on my CBR due to a flat tire, got the tire on at night and just did a quick 15 minute test ride to make sure everything was ok and went out the next day on a pretty fast pace street run, I wasnt trying to hear 100 mile tire break-in.

Like I said I also use them on my track bike, mid pack intermediate with no problems at all. I do not run warmers on them, there is no use they are street tires. Tire warmers are mainly to reduce the number of heat cycles a race tire goes through, street tires are designed for multiple heat cycles.

That is turn 7 at Lightning at NJMP, full throttle second gear at that point of the pic.

That is turn 12 at NJMP Thunderbolt,around 110MPH, 4th gear, hard on the gas, coming out onto the front straight.


Your problem is not the tires.

I have had two problems with the Q2s, once was coming into a turn WAY to hot was trailing it into the turn and got off the brakes a little too aggresively, the front tire slid a little bit but it felt VERY predictable, it kinda told me what it was doing, slid about 3 or 4 inches and was fine, not the tires fault, I just made to many imputs at once. The other time was turn 7 at VIR, uphill, blind, off camber right hander, after the apex your suspension unloads and I got on the gas a little too aggresively, the back step out on me and sent me up over the bars, I saved the high side but I kinda knew what was going on as it was happening, the tires felt like they were telling me what was happening as it happened. Both times I KNOW I did something wrong and just asked too much of the tires under the existing conditions.

I would have your suspension set-up checked and go over the bike as well, if you find nothing wrong there then the problem probably is between your helmet and your boots.

 

[Kurosaki]

Honestly to me it just sounds like the tire was not warmed up enough yet.

You said you went down in the first 1 or 2 laps without any real warning. That's a big sign of cold tires. Little feedback

I've not used Q2s so I can't comment on their warm up. I do damn near 2 complete laps before turning the wick up at all. I know my tires are probably warm enough at least a half lap earlier, maybe more, but I like to be sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are up to temp.

 

[Beast6rr]

OK. we get it. Move on.

That's not helping him solve any questions about why he crashed.

opcorn:opcorn:

 

[Str8_Lurkin]

Interesting I have used the q2s on the track brand new no problems. How familar are you with the bike you were riding? The issuse could have been that. Or something as simple as body posture. Hope you figure it out.

 

[EP3hatch03]

I am glad you are okay, which turn did u lowside? I assumed you were at shenny today?

Oh and I think it could be bad suspension setting or rider error.

The profile on the q2 is alot different than the ones I am used to. It took me sometime to get used to.

I was running a set of new q2s on my last track day and i took it easy for only a lap or two.

 

[MikeyP]

Contrary to previous posts, scrubbing tires in is not a myth.
It was probably a good idea to take it easy on them until all surfaces have contacted and heated up.
I don't run Q2s, but I think most run a lower pressure (24-26 cold) on the rear at the track.

 

[oakasrtheshiz]

Contrary to previous posts, scrubbing tires in is not a myth.
It was probably a good idea to take it easy on them until all surfaces have contacted and heated up.
I don't run Q2s, but I think most run a lower pressure (24-26 cold) on the rear at the track.

you are wrong. lets stop confusing the term scrubbing with heating up

 

[Beast6rr]

you are wrong. lets stop confusing the term scrubbing with heating up

:+1: I was hoping by posting a link with expert advice it would remove one of the suspected root causes.

 

[oakasrtheshiz]

Mikey P here ya go man, maybe this will help to dispel the myth in your eyes, but hey who knows maybe you know something that everyone else doesn't. or maybe we all know something that you don't, could go either way. either way spouting bunk info with nothing to back it up is reckless.
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176572

 

[EP3hatch03]

Contrary to previous posts, scrubbing tires in is not a myth.
It was probably a good idea to take it easy on them until all surfaces have contacted and heated up.
I don't run Q2s, but I think most run a lower pressure (24-26 cold) on the rear at the track.

Q2 should be close to 30 f/r cold

I was running 28psi cold before and the q2 get greasy fast.

 

[EP3hatch03]

Mikey P here ya go man, maybe this will help to dispel the myth in your eyes, but hey who knows maybe you know something that everyone else doesn't. or maybe we all know something that you don't, could go either way. either way spouting bunk info with nothing to back it up is reckless.
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176572

Few laps around the track is enough to scrub a tire in. Plenty of track guys stick new tire in the morning and I doubt any of them ride 100 miles before going hard on them.

 

[n3dmax]

Mikey P here ya go man, maybe this will help to dispel the myth in your eyes, but hey who knows maybe you know something that everyone else doesn't. or maybe we all know something that you don't, could go either way. either way spouting bunk info with nothing to back it up is reckless.
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176572

I think Dunlop explained it best when talking about becoming accustomed to the
feel of the new tires.

How many threads do we have here asking about tire advice? If you go through them you will see people have different opinions of different tires in many different ways.

Here is Dunlop's response
Originally Posted by Dunlop

Joe,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your Dunlop motorcycle
tire questions. Dunlop Motorcycle Tire does NOT use a "mold releasing
agent" during the production of our tires. When new tires are fitted,
they
should not be subjected to maximum power, abrupt lean-over or hard
cornering until a reasonable run-in distance of approximately 100 miles
has
been covered. This will permit the rider to become accustomed to the
feel
of the new tires or tire combination, find the edge, and achieve
optimum
road grip for a range of speeds, acceleration and handling use. Be
sure to
check and adjust inflation pressure to recommended levels after the
tire
cools for at least three (3) hours following run-in. Remember, new
tires
will have a very different contact patch and lean-over edge. New
tires,
mixing a new tire with an used tire, and mixing tread pattern
combinations
require careful ride evaluations.