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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone have experience in advancing or retarding the ignitin timing to make more power? I have the ignition module installed on my 07' 600rr. To avoid damaging the engine, I'd like to hear from you guys how much should I advance or retard the timing.
TIA.
 

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well, what kind of mods have you done to the air filter/exhaust and what kind of power commander do you have. if you dont have a full exhaust with some mods to the air filter retarding your ignition timing would be useless, and you dont want to advance it since that will make the spark happen later after top dead center, but if you HAVE done some major mods to it and have the right mapping you will need access to the dyno because retardation is one of those hit or miss type of things, you will have to just retard it slightly then throw it on the dyno and keep doing that until you have it performing where you would like it. but thats pretty much overkill if it's just a street bike, you dont hit peak horsepower until 13,500 rpms and you wont hit that on the street in 6/5th gear so i'd only recomend doing it if it's a track bike cuz that would consume gas, and another alternative if it's a track bike is overhauling the system to use race fuels because that will burn much cleaner and much hotter with more of a power increase to boost your rpms at the combustion stage of the engine stroke.
 

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well, what kind of mods have you done to the air filter/exhaust and what kind of power commander do you have. if you dont have a full exhaust with some mods to the air filter retarding your ignition timing would be useless, and you dont want to advance it since that will make the spark happen later after top dead center, but if you HAVE done some major mods to it and have the right mapping you will need access to the dyno because retardation is one of those hit or miss type of things, you will have to just retard it slightly then throw it on the dyno and keep doing that until you have it performing where you would like it. but thats pretty much overkill if it's just a street bike, you dont hit peak horsepower until 13,500 rpms and you wont hit that on the street in 6/5th gear so i'd only recomend doing it if it's a track bike cuz that would consume gas, and another alternative if it's a track bike is overhauling the system to use race fuels because that will burn much cleaner and much hotter with more of a power increase to boost your rpms at the combustion stage of the engine stroke.
You have it backwards my friend. Advancing the timing makes the spark happen earlier (not later which is retarding the timing).
 

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No you set the timing back. Retarding it so the spark happens before top dead center man. There's a lag that happens after the sparkplug recieves electricity from the coil to the point the air fuel mixture is ignited I'm in school for this. We do this kind of stuff all day lol

that's why you RETARD it BACK so the spark happens sooner
 

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No you set the timing back. Retarding it so the spark happens before top dead center man. There's a lag that happens after the sparkplug recieves electricity from the coil to the point the air fuel mixture is ignited I'm in school for this. We do this kind of stuff all day lol

that's why you RETARD it BACK so the spark happens sooner
My friend, think about what you are saying (away from the engineering and just look at the wording). Retarding makes the combustion event (spark) happen sooner? Now, do a search on the internet or check your textbook.

I hope they are not teaching you this at school. I've already graduated btw.
 

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advancing the ignition timing makes the spark happen either close to TDC or ATDC, and retarding it makes it happen before the original timing setting, thus retarding it makes it happen before the original setting and advancing it makes it happen AFTER the original setting, think about the wording lmao retard is slow/behind and advance is forward. and what school did you attend?

and you should re=read what i wrote, because i never once stated that retardation is making it happen sooner. it makes it happen before stock settings
 

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advancing the ignition timing makes the spark happen either close to TDC or ATDC, and retarding it makes it happen before the original timing setting, thus retarding it makes it happen before the original setting and advancing it makes it happen AFTER the original setting, think about the wording lmao retard is slow/behind and advance is forward. and what school did you attend?

and you should re=read what i wrote, because i never once stated that retardation is making it happen sooner. it makes it happen before stock settings
I'm very sorry for you and the school you are attending if that's what they are teaching you, but it's flat out wrong.

Since you were wondering, I went to CAL.
 

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HAHAHAHA, dude you went to a university, i went to MMI and i'm currently a bronze level CERTIFIED honda mechanic. MMI is the only school that honda recognizes to work with certified paperwork, you stoner yuppie californians are confused about what is real and what isnt, too bad ive built more hondas than you ever will chumy :)
 

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HAHAHAHA, dude you went to a university, i went to MMI and i'm currently a bronze level CERTIFIED honda mechanic. MMI is the only school that honda recognizes to work with certified paperwork, you stoner yuppie californians are confused about what is real and what isnt, too bad ive built more hondas than you ever will chumy :)
So this is where they teach you that retarding the timing makes it the spark happen sooner/earlier in the combustion event and advancing makes it happen later?? No I wonder I work on my own bikes lol.

I'm not sure why you are laughing. A mechanic, who is wrong, is trying to argue with an engineer...Nice!
 

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i know it's not exactly a "bible", but i yanked this off of wiki...

""Timing advance" refers to the number of degrees before top dead center (BTDC) that the spark will ignite the air-fuel mixture in the combustion chamber during the compression stroke. Retarded timing can be defined as; changing the timing so that fuel ignition happens later than the manufacturer's specified time. If the ignition timing, specified by the manufacturer, was to be set at 12 degrees BTDC and it was adjusted to a number lower than 12 degrees BTDC, it would be retarded. In a classic ignition system with breaker points, the basic timing can be set statically using a test light or dynamically using a timing light."

now i'm no mechanic nor engineer, but i'm afraid i'm going to have to side with x2thez3 on this one. sorry, bro.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It is a track bike fitted with PCIII, Ignition module, race air filter and akrapovic full system. I'm planning to install a wideband commander to gather the AFR data to customize the fuel map. After that, I hope to adjust the ignition timing to optimize the power.

Except the flat spot, the race air filter and full system make the air/fuel mixture denser by increasing the flow and resulted in a faster combustion. Therefore I assume I should "delay" (not sure whether it is called advance or retard) the ignition. Am I correct? Any rules I need to keep on my mind when trying to find the optimum setting?
 

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It is a track bike fitted with PCIII, Ignition module, race air filter and akrapovic full system. I'm planning to install a wideband commander to gather the AFR data to customize the fuel map. After that, I hope to adjust the ignition timing to optimize the power.

Except the flat spot, the race air filter and full system make the air/fuel mixture denser by increasing the flow and resulted in a faster combustion. Therefore I assume I should "delay" (not sure whether it is called advance or retard) the ignition. Am I correct? Any rules I need to keep on my mind when trying to find the optimum setting?
I think by "denser" you meant both more air and fuel in general, correct? (your a/f mixture can only vary within a range or else it will not combust). In this case, you would want to actually advance your timing as the larger amount air/fuel would need more time to completely combust. If you "delayed" (retarded) your timing in this case, you would be left with more unburnt fuel = less power.

If you are just trying to make more power and don't give a crap about emissions, I'd just take it to a place that has a dyno and play with it there.
 

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So this is where they teach you that retarding the timing makes it the spark happen sooner/earlier in the combustion event and advancing makes it happen later?? No I wonder I work on my own bikes lol.

I'm not sure why you are laughing. A mechanic, who is wrong, is trying to argue with an engineer...Nice!
10 years later did my Honda CERTIFIED mechanic finnaly figure out the correct terminology?
 
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