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Discussion Starter #1
JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school.Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...
You are part of the problem!

It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
....... and jose illegal, if caught gets slaped on the hand and deported and back in our country with 24 hrs by crossing our under potroled borders...
you live in a dream world if you think he actually gets deported

id bet not even 10% of the illegals arrested are deported.

i cant tell you how many violent crimes have happened within days of an illegal getting released from jail

often times killing a cop, or some one else
 

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true........i see ur in AZ what the big fuss about with your guys new law.....please give detail on what the laws about.....from what i see i wish this would be in every state.....o and to metion jose illegal lives up the street from me and is currently working as i am busting my as trying to find a new job....****...what wrong with that picture....
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
true........i see ur in AZ what the big fuss about with your guys new law.....please give detail on what the laws about.....from what i see i wish this would be in every state.....o and to metion jose illegal lives up the street from me and is currently working as i am busting my as trying to find a new job....****...what wrong with that picture....
i have yet to figgure out the hubbub

they say it violates rights

i have year to hear WHAT right

they say it encurages profiling, maybe, but there is also wording in there that indicates if caught profiling theres trouble to be had for the cop

long and short, as far as i can tell it mirrors the federal law on the books, with the exception of it becomes a local crime and we get to prosecute and penalize them with local laws + have the option to turn over to ice for deportation, IF ice / border patrol will do it

there is three questions i have asked from EVERY oposer of the bill that i can talk to...

1) how does it differ from federal law, besides who can / will enforce it
2) what rights does it violate
3) how does arizonas local law differ from any other forign country's immigration laws (for example, if you go to Mexico undocumented, ANY ONE, civilian, cop, federali wtf ever, can arrest you and turn you into Mexican authorities, awaiting you is a minimum 4 year sentence in Mexican prisons.)

and i have yet to get one answer, literally, not an i dont know, not a hears how, its almost ALWAYS a huh... next topic this is getting old.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well **** i wish we had that......let me guess jose illegal and all the other illegal familys are creating the fuss......
my, what a valiant guess

odly enough, and "strangly" not reported by the news, there has been 50+ arrests made at the various illegal immigration law protests, and gee, basically ALL of them have been undocumented, atleast says my source inside PHX PD

also, 90+% of the SAU units (think swat) work as far as raids, hostage situations, and all the situations where swat works, guess what, caused by illegals...
 

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I say we wait till they protest again get a bunch of buses and put their asses on it and ship them back to mexico
 

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I HATE WHEN ONLY HALF THE STORY IS TOLD......HERES THE REST OF THE STORY...............:retard::banghead::gun1::bootyshak
As Co-founder of Texans for Sensible Immigration Policy, I respond (which can be seen in red) to an e-mail that has been sent around to the masses entitled "Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal" by setting the record straight with facts, not fiction!
There are two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal." Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted. Actually, a lot of Illegals do the same. They use a fake SS number.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table." Actually, a lot of U.S. Citizens do the same. Employers treat them as "sub contractors" to avoid paying matching taxes and providing WC and UE taxes.
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. This is absurd. A single man with that income, with no dependent children will pay less than 20% in taxes, including Social Security and Medicare. This comes to $10,400 leaving Joe Legal with $41,600. Just remember that illegals who used a fake Social Security number are doing the same thing - they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00. Again, under our current immigration laws, U.S. employers have hired millions of "Jose Illegals" LEGALLY. Their taxes are withheld just like Joe Legal's taxes are withheld.
Joe Legal Pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $34,400.00. Remember he is paying less than 20% in taxes. Millions of illegals are doing the same thing with fake social security cards.
Joe Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. This is an overstatement. Assuming you are talking about illegals who are not insured (there are millions working for employers with benefits) they are in the same boat as the legal uninsured. Both groups show up at the emergency room for the medical treatment because they cannot be turned away.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal now has $28,400.00. This also implies that Illegals receive welfare and food stamps. This is not true - both welfare and food stamp programs require a VERIFIED valid Social Security ID.
Joe Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Again, no one gets foods stamps without a verified SS number! Jose Illegal now has $25,200 after food expenses.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1200.00 per month, or $14,400 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $14,000.00. Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal rent subsidy. Again, not true because of the SS ID requirement.
Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month for rent, or $6000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Why would one think the average Jose Illegal pays any less rent than the average "Joe Legal"? This is a deliberate misrepresentation. Jose Illegal's now has $10,800 after rent expense.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 per year for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00. Actually, he now has $11,600.00. Legal status is no guarantee that someone will buy insurance - again the deck is being stacked.
Jose Illegal says "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00. If Illegals were allowed to renew their drivers licenses, they could buy liability insurance on the cars and trucks that we sold them. Now, we refuse to renew their drivers licenses?!? So, who is it that is keeping Jose Illegal from buying insurance?!?
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc. Actually, it is $11,600.00. Yes, he sure does have to make it stretch. Good thing he live in a country that offers more opportunities to people regardless of class or national origin. Everything he buys contributes to our U.S. economy. Everyone should want Joe Legal to succeed. When he succeeds, America succeeds!
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 (the correct number is $10,800) stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month. Jose Illegal can do whatever he wants with his money. But, he also buys goods and services in the United States of America. His money counts the same as Joe Legal.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Also known as getting ahead!
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family. This is a ridiculous characterization. More likely, he is standing on a corner waiting for any job at $10.00 per hour, hoping that the guy that picks him up will pay him.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home. They bot get a free lunch and they both study English.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay. What makes you think "Jose" did not pay for these services? In Texas, we pay our police and fire services through local sales and property taxes. If Jose had lived in Texas he would have paid plenty of those. Now consider this: If Jose had lived in Arizona, how likely is it that Jose Illegal will call the police when he is the victim of a crime? He is afraid to report the crime as he knows he is subject to deportation!
Do you get it now?!? Yes, it's obvious that you know very little about Illegal Immigration!
If you vote for or support any politician who supports immigration reform - You are part of the problem! No, you are the problem! Keep it up, and you will drive more legal immigrants to vote for the likes of Obama Socialism! If you can read get you head out of ... and think! God gave you a brain. Use it and support Sensible Immigration Reform. America deserves a sensible immigration policy. Secure our borders and demand a positive ID of every NON-CITIZEN in the country. Deport those with violent criminal records but issue work permits to those we allow to stay. Allow no short cuts to citizenship, except for military service. Establish a penalty tax for non-citizens and their employers as an incentive to hire citizens first!
For more information, you can fo to TXSIP.com.

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Discussion Starter #16
As Co-founder of Texans for Sensible Immigration Policy, I respond (which can be seen in red) to an e-mail that has been sent around to the masses entitled "Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal" by setting the record straight with facts, not fiction!
There are two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal." Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted. Actually, a lot of Illegals do the same. They use a fake SS number.
Yes, they use a fake ID, SOME times, they use the SSN of a deceased person, almost all the time they claim maximum dependants so takes are not taken out more often they work entirely off the books, and the stolen ID’s are simply used to skirt around the cops.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table." Actually, a lot of U.S. Citizens do the same. Employers treat them as "sub contractors" to avoid paying matching taxes and providing WC and UE taxes.
This is true, and we can and should hold them accountable as well.
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. This is absurd. A single man with that income, with no dependent children will pay less than 20% in taxes, including Social Security and Medicare. This comes to $10,400 leaving Joe Legal with $41,600. Just remember that illegals who used a fake Social Security number are doing the same thing - they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.
This is generally false, im sure there are some that are paying into the Social Security fund, but 99% of them are not.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00. Again, under our current immigration laws, U.S. employers have hired millions of "Jose Illegals" LEGALLY. Their taxes are withheld just like Joe Legal's taxes are withheld.
And again, while hired “legally” there are plenty of ways to get around paying taxes

Joe Legal Pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $34,400.00. Remember he is paying less than 20% in taxes. Millions of illegals are doing the same thing with fake social security cards.
Again, they are not doing things the proper way that we as americans have to.

Joe Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. This is an overstatement. Assuming you are talking about illegals who are not insured (there are millions working for employers with benefits) they are in the same boat as the legal uninsured. Both groups show up at the emergency room for the medical treatment because they cannot be turned away.
And joe legal MUST pay or face prosecution / judgements against and must pay legally, where as jose illegal is impossible to track down because of false documents, yes there are us citizens that use false documents as well.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal now has $28,400.00. This also implies that Illegals receive welfare and food stamps. This is not true - both welfare and food stamp programs require a VERIFIED valid Social Security ID.

Its amazing what can be obtained via stolen identities sir … 3 months ago there was an entire illegal document manufacturing lab shutdown here in Arizona that was printing licenses, ssid cards, and any other document an illegal immigrant count want or need to get around the US, they went to the extent of getting and using the exact same printers as what arizonas DMV uses to make the licenses.

Joe Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Again, no one gets foods stamps without a verified SS number! Jose Illegal now has $25,200 after food expenses.
See my above, they steal an identity, provide proof of lack of income and walla
Joe Legal pays rent of $1200.00 per month, or $14,400 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $14,000.00. Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal rent subsidy. Again, not true because of the SS ID requirement. Again, stolen identity, verifiable
Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month for rent, or $6000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Why would one think the average Jose Illegal pays any less rent than the average "Joe Legal"? This is a deliberate misrepresentation. Jose Illegal's now has $10,800 after rent expense.
If one wants to get down to brass tax, we also have issues with these things called drop houses, where you have 10, 15, 20, 30 illegals living in the same residence, sharing the same rent, yes us citizens could do this, but we don’t, because the living conditions are horrid.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 per year for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00. Actually, he now has $11,600.00. Legal status is no guarantee that someone will buy insurance - again the deck is being stacked.
True, but unless your making a ton of money, your buying insurance
Jose Illegal says "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00. If Illegals were allowed to renew their drivers licenses, they could buy liability insurance on the cars and trucks that we sold them. Now, we refuse to renew their drivers licenses?!? So, who is it that is keeping Jose Illegal from buying insurance?!?
no, they arnt allowed to get a lincense because they are here illegally, and they continue to drive, and hurt people, and are next to impossible to prosecute … as my mom about the illegal that broad sided her and how much trouble jose illegal got in…




Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family. This is a ridiculous characterization. More likely, he is standing on a corner waiting for any job at $10.00 per hour, hoping that the guy that picks him up will pay him.
Even if that’s the case, that’s yet again money that goes undocumented, and doesn’t contribute to the gains that the person has
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home. They bot get a free lunch and they both study English.
What crack are you smoking that you think joe legals kids get free lunch? I know of a single mom that makes 10 dollars an hour, and doesn’t qualify for free lunches…
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay. What makes you think "Jose" did not pay for these services? In Texas, we pay our police and fire services through local sales and property taxes. If Jose had lived in Texas he would have paid plenty of those. Now consider this: If Jose had lived in Arizona, how likely is it that Jose Illegal will call the police when he is the victim of a crime? He is afraid to report the crime as he knows he is subject to deportation!
This is NOT true, knowing people in the law enforcement in Arizona, a victems immigration status cannot be questioned.
Do you get it now?!? Yes, it's obvious that you know very little about Illegal Immigration!
If you vote for or support any politician who supports immigration reform - You are part of the problem! No, you are the problem! Keep it up, and you will drive more legal immigrants to vote for the likes of Obama Socialism! If you can read get you head out of ... and think! God gave you a brain. Use it and support Sensible Immigration Reform. America deserves a sensible immigration policy. Secure our borders and demand a positive ID of every NON-CITIZEN in the country. Deport those with violent criminal records but issue work permits to those we allow to stay. Allow no short cuts to citizenship, except for military service. Establish a penalty tax for non-citizens and their employers as an incentive to hire citizens first!
For more information, you can fo to TXSIP.com.
trust me when i say what i say, there are PLENTY of ways around the requirements of various things

as americans most are not visable to us, because we arnt looking for a way to screw the system, sure there are plenty of americans that play the system as well as any illegal

but if you think 99% of the illegals are contributing to the system / playing by the same rules, you sir live in a dream land.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No, you are the problem! Keep it up, and you will drive more legal immigrants to vote for the likes of Obama Socialism! If you can read get you head out of ... and think! God gave you a brain. Use it and support Sensible Immigration Reform. America deserves a sensible immigration policy. Secure our borders and demand a positive ID of every NON-CITIZEN in the country. Deport those with violent criminal records but issue work permits to those we allow to stay. Allow no short cuts to citizenship, except for military service. Establish a penalty tax for non-citizens and their employers as an incentive to hire citizens first!
For more information, you can fo to TXSIP.com.
as far as the pentaly for hiring non citzens, yea, arizona tried that
the Coyotes and other various orginizations just stepped up their game, and litteraly made a forgery ring that produces just about every major us document, based on legitiment names and id numbers. -- all stolen, flat identity theft.
 
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