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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

Most reviewers say the R6 and ZX6R are the top 600cc bikes for the track and the CBR600RR usually trails in last place. How come the CBR600RR has the most constructor championships in the World Supersport Championship? The CBR600RR has been killing it in the series since 2005 for the most part. What makes the street version so much worst than the race version? The only thing that the street CBR600RR lacks is power compared to the R6 and ZX6R, but with a ECU tune that churns out similar powers to that of an R6, wouldn't the CBR600RR be even better as it is the lightest 600cc bike and flickable just like the R6?
 

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"Successful" is in the eye of the beholder... Each person's perception will vary, and that's what makes it more interesting and valid.
 

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Both the 636 and the R6 have a more aggressive riding position. You could adapt that, but out of the box....
And probably the fact that the 600RR remained unupdated for the last 10 years doesn't help its image either.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
But if the cbr600rr can match their top end power, the cbr600rr would be the top 600cc track bike imo. Agree?
 

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This is a really convoluted question all things considered.

The 600RR is a very good race platform. When we're talking race bikes vs. street bikes, very little bleeds over into each camp. The CBR is a great street bike in stock trip because of it's ease of use and accessibility. It has good all-around power and is a jack-of-all trades.

What makes it a good race platform is that it's been around awhile, has a lot of support.... and on the world stage, it's backed by Honda's $$$. The problem with the bikes you and I ride is they don't really compare well to what's raced. Team-to-team differences are huge and all of the 600cc sportbikes are very comparable. Rider becomes a large dynamic.

As far as success goes, I can tell you with great certainty that the CBR600RR is not the best-selling 600cc sportbike in any region. That honor goes to the R6 and for a couple years Kawasaki came close too. As far as race success, you'll probably see more R6's winning on the local level and more factory support from Honda on the global stage.

So I can't answer the question because it's more than just one measure of success. To me, I bought the CBR because it had the best overall package in 07 and still feels better in some ways to the modern bikes.

Newest CBR's are a bit lacking in power, partially due to emissions restrictions that started in 09 and also when compared to bikes with a bit more development now (GSXR, D675 and ZX-6R 636). The CBR600RR for 2016 is the same engine and chassis as 2007 (PC40)
 

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Like previously mentioned, "successful" is very subjective and relative superlative, but I'd add that the 600RR still does not come equipped with a slipper clutch. ZX6rs got them in 2005, R6s in 2006, and GSXR600s in 2006. You can take it a step further and add that 600rrs didn't get inverted forks and radial mounted brakes until 2005 whereas ZX6rs got them in 2003 and GSXR600s in 2004.

While I'm not trying to make the argument that this equipment is indicative of a "successful" bike, it definitely shows that Honda is not in a hurry to wow any consumers, or care for that matter. IMO...
 

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A FIM World Supersport bike is a much different beast than a bike much closer to what a club racer could build. The ZX6 and R6 start in a higher state of tune and are a more attractive option to the other 97% of track day riders. And I think Honda still doesn't really pay any contingency either.
 

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While I'm not trying to make the argument that this equipment is indicative of a "successful" bike, it definitely shows that Honda is not in a hurry to wow any consumers, or care for that matter. IMO...
Well, counterpoint - I bought my Hondas because in reviews they were always praised as being supremely balanced and without much in the way of faults, besides the lack of add-ons. I value chassis dynamics more than parts, so I think it's more of 'what Honda wants to focus on' rather than them not caring.
 

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I've had both 600RR's and R6's. For the street I'd rather ride a 600RR, for the track R6 all the way.
 

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but with a ECU tune that churns out similar powers to that of an R6,
There is no such thing. You might as well hook up your unicorn and not waste gas with the engine running while you win the race.
The 600rr win where rule allow it to. The others win when all factors are equal [same mods to all bikes]
 

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Well, counterpoint - I bought my Hondas because in reviews they were always praised as being supremely balanced and without much in the way of faults, besides the lack of add-ons. I value chassis dynamics more than parts, so I think it's more of 'what Honda wants to focus on' rather than them not caring.
They've focused on profits not handling. The chassis hasn't changed in 9yrs. They can easily add HP without changing the chassis.
 

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A FIM World Supersport bike is a much different beast than a bike much closer to what a club racer could build. The ZX6 and R6 start in a higher state of tune and are a more attractive option to the other 97% of track day riders. And I think Honda still doesn't really pay any contingency either.
If I'm not mistaken...a true SS build will likely have a 2mm bore, full exhaust and will absolutely have a built, aftermarket suspension - putting out 40-45 hp more than a stock 600cc bike.

In stock form, the R6 has also been unchanged for as long (longer?) than the CBR and tends to dominate club level racing.
 

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They've focused on profits not handling. The chassis hasn't changed in 9yrs. They can easily add HP without changing the chassis.
They can't add any HP without ECU or engine mods that would require them to re-submit their engine to all the pollution/noise enforcement bodies around the world for sale as a road worthy vehicle, which I imagine is very expensive. Perhaps more expensive than proposed increase in sales due to a change like that.

The upcoming Euro4 mandate will force Honda to resubmit though, so it's make it or break it coming up soon (I've seen equal rumor of a new 600RR and Honda dropping the 600RR.)
 

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Complete hearsay - just other internet commenters. I too think Honda would not drop it, since it would mean completely abandoning all supersport races around the world.
 

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For club racing you will see far more R6's than anything else for several reasons including aftermarket, everyone else having one, and it being a really good bike. People win on 600rr's and zx6r's all the time though. They are all so evenly matched, it really comes down to nitpicking and rider preference. Also the bikes you see on TV in the European races are so modded, they more closely resemble motogp than the street bike they come from. They also need their motors rebuilt every couple races because of all of the modifying they have done to them. It seems that when you want to drop a ridiculous amount of money on engine mods, the 600rr does pretty well.

I went for the 600rr for two main reasons: reliability and easy to ride. Every review I read said riding the 600rr on the track felt easy and made noobs look better. Its also a Honda, you can't break it. I've wrecked mine 6 times and the engine still sounds like day 1. R6's like to catch on fire and 675's have a problem blowing up engines. As far as Kawi's, they were pretty good but I didn't think they were engineered too well before 2008. Today its a whole other story.
 
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