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The Real "Rondo"
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey .netters....

So I paid $300.00 for My Fiance to go to the S.A.F.E. course this past weekend..Long story short, she failed.

The thing is I have her riding with me about two miles down my street to the nearest school which is HUGE with lots of twists and turns and she's fine.

I will admit she does need help shifting, I watch her bike and how she shifts from first to second..etc etc...and what she's doing wrong is obvious. When she's shifting she's not getting back in the gas, she's actually sometimes going slower than she was in the previous gear.


So what happened at the course....she was there Friday, Sat and Sunday. She was supposed to be there till 5pm both Sat and Sunday, Both days she was home by three...I don't think that's right of S.A.F.E if we paid for the full course to be home early cause the instructors decided they wanted to cut the class early.

She called me at noon time sunday saying they were going to have the test in an hour...after a 25 minute practice..they started the testing.

She also mentioned there was another girl from the previous class that failed...back for her second time...Also the FAQ on the web site says they will pull a driveer aside if they see something wronge and work with them...they never helped her 1 on 1.

Supposably she passed everything except the 1st-2nd back to first stop. I guess she stalled and put her feet down and they took off 20 points just for that...which landed her a 80 plus she hit one cone which gave her a 79...FAIL!

Now my delema is, I feel they didn't spend quality time with her, and I know I may just have certain emotions because she's my girl but I just think they should have had more practice time before the test...and should not have been home 3 hrs before the time both days.

So.... Can you guys give me advice on how I can help her shift...I've told her that when she's shifting she has to progress in speed and not slow down...anything else I can try??

As I mentioned before...she's riding her 600 fine for only really 5 days on it..total of about 20hrs riding time...

She'e even driving from my house to the school fine...I was thinking of getting two chatterboxes for us...so I can ride next to her at the school and kinda coach her...it's hard to now since the only way to show her is parked...can't talk to her while we are riding.

Any advice guys would be great....and BTW we both are fully geared up..before anyone asked.

Also I've heard from sooo many people that they basically shouldn't let you fail...they will work with you till you pass...guess not!!

Thanks guys...you've allways been so helpful in the past, figured I would see what you guys think.
 

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I would talk to the coaches and get their side and see why they failed her. I doubt they would fail her unless she didn't meet the standard of the course (I have been wrong before). I went through the MSF class recently, and as I was watching some of the riders and was thinking to myself a random thought ran through my mind. I was wondering how many of these people were going to buy a bike and become a statistic within the first year of riding... There were 20 of us in the course, and about half had no business passing the class and getting their license and riding in traffic. I say no business because they were sketchy in a controlled classroom environment. I am not saying she is an awful rider, but these people were. I feel that three days on a bike with some minor instruction on turning, braking and clutch/throttle control is not enough for the people who didn't grow up with some form of riding experience. I'd say an empty/abandoned parking lot with some spray paint and cones is needed to work on technique and control. Especially if she has a bike to practice on and someone to teach her the correct way to ride. I do feel that there should be more instructors to allow adequate 1 on 1 time with new riders to ensure they have the confidence and skill to pass each section.
 

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I understand how you feel you weren't getting your money's worth. At my MSF they had us out early everyday. I didn't mind too much with the classroom stuff, but the actual riding shouldn't be cut short.

They made us take the test early on the last day because if they waited until 12 they would have to give us an hour lunch break. B.S. if you ask me. I passed the test so I didn't complain, but I would be pissed if I failed. You could always submit a complaint, say you should be refunded since you didn't get the amount of hours they said you would.

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The Real "Rondo"
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Discussion Starter #4
I understand how you feel you weren't getting your money's worth. At my MSF they had us out early everyday. I didn't mind too much with the classroom stuff, but the actual riding shouldn't be cut short.

They made us take the test early on the last day because if they waited until 12 they would have to give us an hour lunch break. B.S. if you ask me. I passed the test so I didn't complain, but I would be pissed if I failed. You could always submit a complaint, say you should be refunded since you didn't get the amount of hours they said you would.

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i just sent a E-mail to the course asking for more details of the falilure. I would have figured she would have came home with some kind of score card or at least something showing where at how she failed. She doens't even know how many points she lost, they just told her she failed.

I talked to one of the instructors before she went to ask and feel out the course to make sure I was sending her to the right place. I felt comfortable with the answers they gave me on the phone.

Friday she was in class from 6-9pm...then came home. The instructor told me she would have 15hrs of ride time and would be there till 5pm both sat and Sunday...Saturday she was there from 8-2..maybe 3 ish...I know she was home by 4pm and it's a 45 minute drive.

Now Sunday is where I'm worried about....She got there at 8am and was talking to me at noon time telling me they are testing in 25 minutes...She called me at 2pm on the nose and told me she failed....I thought she was joking since it was sooo early, But it wasn't a joke.

She said they rushed threw everything on Sunday and didn't give any one on one time. I was expecting her to be there till 5pm and again she was home by 3:30is....with a 45 minute drive..

I'm so confused and frustrated....no score card...no one on one help...waste of money in my opinion...I could have done what they did.

We had practiced all the course testing by ourselfs for a couple days before and she did great on her 600cc gsxr....but couldn't pass on a 250cc ... I just don't understand...

Hoping they email or call me back....dang it:banghead::gun1:
 

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That is complete B.S. She should have been shown her score and the areas she lost points. I'm not familiar with SAFE, only MSF, but there's no reason for that.

Sounds like a refund is due to you.

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The Real "Rondo"
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Discussion Starter #6
Again like I said...it's hard to be judgemental without being there...But one thing I do know is Michelle never lies and she's the best person I've ever met, She's always calm and collective.

She's a phyc for handicaped children...so to show how patient she is. For her to come home all distrot really bugged me...and to not have anything to show for her point deductions and class time really got me pissed.

Please excuse my spelling I'm on my phone
 

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im glad they failed her... too many courses letting horrible riders out with an endorsement. This one chick i met at the course that we had mutual friends dropped the bike twice. She passes and thinks shes rdy for a bike. i kept telling her to get a 250.. get a 250.. shes gets a 600.. week later shes in the hospital, all sorts of broken stuff.

more seat time is needed.. and dont let her off the bike untill she has it down. and you can easily make up ohh boo hoo those lost hours you paid for.. if you know your stuff well enough why arent you teaching her? and why didnt you before even taking the test?
 

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im glad they failed her... too many courses letting horrible riders out with an endorsement. This one chick i met at the course that we had mutual friends dropped the bike twice. She passes and thinks shes rdy for a bike. i kept telling her to get a 250.. get a 250.. shes gets a 600.. week later shes in the hospital, all sorts of broken stuff.

more seat time is needed.. and dont let her off the bike untill she has it down. and you can easily make up ohh boo hoo those lost hours you paid for.. if you know your stuff well enough why arent you teaching her? and why didnt you before even taking the test?
That's what I was getting at. But I think you came off a little harsh bud... OP, send her to a MSF course instead. I think you'll be more pleased with the results. BTW, when are we gonna cruise 3A?
 

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ooops... my bad... ill rephrase candy coated. =]

Its unfortunate they failed her but it may be for the best, as this is a really dangerous activity with extreme consequences if not prepared. I knew this one girl who dropped the bike twice during the test which i didnt believe she shouldnt of passed. If only they failed her she may have avoided going to the hospital with a punctured lung, a broken humerus and a totaled bike.

I think with more seat time under your helpful supervision Im pretty sure she grasp the concept eventually. Perhaps it would of been wise to of done this practice before taking the test just to make sure no money is wasted. heres a free copy of twist of the wrist 2 to further a better understanding of riding techniques for you and her so you guys may be as best prepared as possible. enjoy and please ride safe!

http://files.meetup.com/1510087/A Twist of the Wrist II.pdf
 

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The Real "Rondo"
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Discussion Starter #11
ooops... my bad... ill rephrase candy coated. =]

Its unfortunate they failed her but it may be for the best, as this is a really dangerous activity with extreme consequences if not prepared. I knew this one girl who dropped the bike twice during the test which i didnt believe she shouldnt of passed. If only they failed her she may have avoided going to the hospital with a punctured lung, a broken humerus and a totaled bike.

I think with more seat time under your helpful supervision Im pretty sure she grasp the concept eventually. Perhaps it would of been wise to of done this practice before taking the test just to make sure no money is wasted. heres a free copy of twist of the wrist 2 to further a better understanding of riding techniques for you and her so you guys may be as best prepared as possible. enjoy and please ride safe!

http://files.meetup.com/1510087/A Twist of the Wrist II.pdf

No sugar coating nessasary with me...No hard feelings.

I've been riding with her every night in a huge school parking lot...I did say that. I also said she's doing well but 100% needs more seat time, I don't think she will see the actual road this year. The only road she will see this year is the 1/4 mile trip to the school from my house. I would absolutly NEVER let her touch the road till I feel 100% comfortable with her riding skills...and even at that I doubt we will ride durring traffic hours.

At no point in the top post did I say she shouldn't have failed if she deserved to fail I do beleive she should have gotten more one on one time though...that's my complaint...and also they ended the classes hours before they should have.

She means the world to me...and I would never put her in danger, please beleive that.

Don't worry about my feelings...they can't be hurt :shakehand
 

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i've never taken the MSF or the SAFE class. but i have taken countless hours of instruction from coaches at trackdays. that's what i spend the money on trackdays to do- get instruction from racers who are better and faster than me. i pay a lot of money for that instruction and i expect feedback after each session, at the end of the day, and at the end of the weekend. unfortunately i have ridden with orgs that were lacking a good coaching staff. i won't ride with those orgs again. IMHO, i would certainly be calling whoever is in charge of the course you enrolled her in, and get the feedback on why she was failed and find out why the riding portion was cut short. if you paid for X, you should receive X. i would do everything you can to get your money back, and then work with her yourself in the big parking lot. it sounds like you are no dummy and won't let her get out in traffic without more skill refinement. in the words of my safety officer, "don't train until you get it right, train until you can't get it wrong."
 

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The Real "Rondo"
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Discussion Starter #14
I agree with everyone in this post!!! Like I said, I doubt she will she the road for a very very long time...But I did expect more from them.

I actually expected her to come home with some kind of spreadsheet or document explaining the reason she failed and what points were deducted.
 

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Did anyone else fail in her class? I could see you raise a stink if a bunch of other riders failed, but if not, then she failed.

She can do one re-take no? In my BRC course we had two people come back on Sunday to re-take the test. Like I said, it happens.

It's nice that you are helping her learn how to ride. But what exercises exactly are you practicing in the parking lot? Get some cones, do proper skills tests. If she is struggling with shifting/quick stop, practice the heck out of that.

In my BRC the bike I was on, had some issues to say the least. Some to my advantage (high idle), some not (shifted hard as hell). That was the only part of the test I had points deducted. The quick stop, they want you to stop and kick it down into first. Well I kicked it down hard and it still didn't go into first. They deducted a good chunk of points for that.

And no offense, but it is on your Fiance to find out at the time she gets her results why they deducted so many points. I have a hard time buying that the instructors just told her she failed, and that is that.

If it was my wife, I would tell her to suck it up. Let's go out and do some real practicing, and take it again.
 

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Well, it's not the end of the world if she failed.

Did her riding the 600 and switching to the 250 in the class play a part in her failure? Perhaps. From what you described, it sounds like she struggled with some of the fundamentals (upshifting/downshifting/stalling out, etc).

No matter what kinda bike she (or anyone else for that matter) rides, the fundamentals taught in the basic MSF class (or equivalent) should be attained.

Don't take this as a slam but it sounds like she may need more closed course practice time in big parking lots or re-taking the class over again.

G'luck...
 

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My friend, they did you a huge favor. If she didn't pass, she's not ready to get out on the road, period. The tests are easy. Ridiculously so. Here's my advice. Console her, make sympathetic noises, etc. While you're doing that, enroll her in the same class again, or in a different class if you don't think that class was adequate. You (not necessarily her) need to recognize that she is a bad, dangerous, incompetent motorcyclist. That's not to say that she can't become a good, safe, competent motorcyclist, but it is going to take some more training. On that note, quit trying to teach her yourself. It's hard on the relationship, and hard on the equipment. And you don't want her going into the training with a bunch of preconceived notions of how it's supposed to work. You don't want her to spend the entire time comparing what they say to what you told her.

Here's some more advice. Don't be THAT guy. Don't be the guy who shows up demanding to know what went wrong because you "taught her how to ride and you know she's a good rider, dammit!" The instructors have seen all that before. It won't help.

One more tidbit. A GSXR-600 is a terrible starter bike for a really good novice, someone who picked it up right away. Someone who is not a natural (like your fiance) has no more business on a GSXR than flying the space shuttle. park the GSXR. Get her a well-used Ninja 250. Let her ride for six months. Then Put her on the GSXR.
 

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Mad Chemist
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Don't clutch while up shifting. roll off the throttle for 1/10th of a second, bang it up a gear, then back on the throttle.

I only use the clutch for downshifts on the RR
 
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