Honda CBR 600RR Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I don't have a CBR600rr. It's a 2001 CBR600F4i that I purchased a year ago and finally got to replace parts on it so that I can enjoy the darned thing. Before the Power Commander V install, it ran smooth, revved up really nice and had exceptional power even though i found out recently that bikes from the factory are tuned lean on fuel for emissions and since I replaced the stock muffler with a short Coffman's slip on... story short, I wanted more get up and go to resolve the lean issue post muffler install and I decided to get a commander. My brother's Suzuki Hayabusa has one and it ran pretty well, so I opted for the brand he has on his. A Dynojet power Commander V.
I ordered it, downloaded the software to be able to transfer a fuel map from their site and all seemed ok. It was simple enough and I thought it went pretty smooth.
First, I noticed, that from a cold start, it wouldn't idle up as it did before the commander. I let it warm up to see if it would do something out of the ordinary and it didn't until I decided to rev it up a little... it stalled instantly. I turned it back on and it idled ok but the fault light flashed 8 times. It was a throttle position sensor code. I disconnected the commander and plugged the stock connectors again and the bike ran ok and it even revved up with no code flashes to speak about. I emailed Dynojet and explained to them what I did and what I figured out and their excuse was that I messed with the TPS when I know I didn't because the kit only has two connectors that go inline with the stock harness connectors that run along side the left side of the bike right behind the VIN label on the frame... and then there was the ground eyelet connector that went on the battery. The TPS is directly under the air filter box, so... i couldn't have touched it, as I explained to the rep I was speaking to from Dynojet. I double checked every thing. They were of no help as they continued to suggest I did some thing wrong.
If it runs and revs with out the Commander and doesn't rev with it... it's the commander. maybe it's a software issue? I'm curious to know if any one has had a similar concern with this product after they've installed it. I would like to know how to resolve it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Did you ever figure out what it was? My 2001 f4i is doing the exact same thing, also what map did you use for the Coffman exhaust? i am planning to order one because right now the guy i bought the bike from a week ago basically had the shorty GP with no baffle installed on my bike and it runs like crap at 3k-4k rpms in any gear just cruising, sounds like its stuttering, so i figured ordering a PCV will do the trick but i am having the issue you are having after installing it on the bike, i used the Yoshimura RS-3 and after market air filter MAP and my bike didnt want to start and when it did start (really rough) i gave it throttle it bogged it out and died, after uninstalling the pcv im back to the original issues i stated above, stuttering you can hear it but you cant really feel it . im thinking its because of the AFR from the exhaust tip not having a baffle. Thanks for any help, ive searched everywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Did you ever figure out what it was? My 2001 f4i is doing the exact same thing, also what map did you use for the Coffman exhaust? i am planning to order one because right now the guy i bought the bike from a week ago basically had the shorty GP with no baffle installed on my bike and it runs like crap at 3k-4k rpms in any gear just cruising, sounds like its stuttering, so i figured ordering a PCV will do the trick but i am having the issue you are having after installing it on the bike, i used the Yoshimura RS-3 and after market air filter MAP and my bike didnt want to start and when it did start (really rough) i gave it throttle it bogged it out and died, after uninstalling the pcv im back to the original issues i stated above, stuttering you can hear it but you cant really feel it . im thinking its because of the AFR from the exhaust tip not having a baffle. Thanks for any help, ive searched everywhere.
Yes I did. After dealing with more testing of the circuits and the throttle body, it turned out to be the power commander itself. I returned it to Ravzilla, who I got the unit from, installed the same program after receiving a new one from them and it worked fine after that. the people company that makes the PCV have the right software depending on what you put on for a muffler, injectors or air filter you use. id just use what ever software the PCV site offers after plugging in what components you've installed. I can't remember the software I downloaded from their site and I didn't save what i down loaded from PCV site. Sorry. It's not hat difficult, though. They will help. They're pretty good despite my issues with miscommunication we had. I'll still recommend the PCV. It works fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Yes I did. After dealing with more testing of the circuits and the throttle body, it turned out to be the power commander itself. I returned it to Ravzilla, who I got the unit from, installed the same program after receiving a new one from them and it worked fine after that. the people company that makes the PCV have the right software depending on what you put on for a muffler, injectors or air filter you use. id just use what ever software the PCV site offers after plugging in what components you've installed. I can't remember the software I downloaded from their site and I didn't save what i down loaded from PCV site. Sorry. It's not hat difficult, though. They will help. They're pretty good despite my issues with miscommunication we had. I'll still recommend the PCV. It works fine.
hey there! a year later and two more power commander v later, im still having this same issue as stated above. ive tried everything even replacing coils, sensors, rectifier and etc. I still cannot get my bike to run with a power commander. Do you have any other ideas or i hope maybe someone else will see this forum and give some advice. I have fixed my idling issue but I am still getting stuttering/jittering when at a constant throttle no mater what gear I am in and no matter how fast I am going, and with even a new power commander installed, my bike will still not idle what so ever and it eventually stalls its self after a like 15 seconds with the unit on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
looks like a noise issue. look at the rpm feedback.

are you running any of the wires or the unit too close to ignition components
I was also questioning that myself about the rpms. And when I unplug the pcv, it idles and runs fine but it does have a sputtering at a constant throttle I replaced coils plugs and rectifier also tested map and TPS sensor with Ohm reader before getting another pcv thinking maybe it was just air fuel ratio or maybe the rectifier would get hot and send wrong voltages, Sadly that only fixed my headlights. and no, I have the pcv in the tail as far back as possible by the tailight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Remove Power Commander and go back to stock. It'll behave A LOT better. Muffler replacement by itself won't increase air-flow, you need full-exhaust for that. And even then, it's only higher-flowing in top-end, with less flow in low-end.

PC is really only for race-bikes and requires dyno-tuning by competent tuner. Without the AFR plots from dyno, you have absolutely zero data to work with and have no idea what zones to adjust and by how much.

On my 2005, I had free-flow air-filter, full Yosh titanium exhaust with CF muffler. Had it professionally tuned for track-racing using VP race-fuel. They made over 100 adjustments, some cells needed LOTS of fuel removed. Others needed minor enrichment. Many adjustments were in opposite directions between adjacent cells! Also bumped up ignition-advance little bit to take advantage of higher-octane. Result was a whopping +10bhp over stock! Worth about 0.5s per lap on most tracks in CA. On streets, never be able to tell difference!

It's misconception that factory fueling is lean. At idle and partial-throttle, it's set to most optimum AFR for emissions and mileage. Adding fuel in these zones would actually decrease power. But more power isn't required at idle & partial-throttle. Decreasing fuel and adding ignition would actually wake bike up with better throttle response from hotter combustion.

Under WOT where max-power is made, it's fat pig rich in 11.0:1 AFR range. Most manufacturers do this to stay away from edge of detonation/knocking for durability and safety. Result is leaving about 5-10% power on table since highest-power is produced around 13.0-13.5:1 on NA engines. Just leaning out WOT mixtures will automatically give you power-bump. Remember that '60s hot-rod saying...

So yeah, remove the PC and bike will behave lots better. Run some PEA-based fuel-system cleaner to remove deposits from injectors and engine and stumbling should go away.

  • Red Line SI-1
  • Techron Concentrate Plus
  • 3M Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner #08814
  • Royal Purple Max Atomizer 18000
  • Gumout All-in-One (this may come off list soon, PEA levels decreasing every year)
Might also want to send injectors out for cleaning and flow-testing. Measure fuel-rail pressure to make sure FPR is working properly. Measure fuel-pump flow at operating pressure. Compare to numbers in manual.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Remove Power Commander and go back to stock. It'll behave A LOT better. Muffler replacement by itself won't increase air-flow, you need full-exhaust for that. And even then, it's only higher-flowing in top-end, with less flow in low-end.

PC is really only for race-bikes and requires dyno-tuning by competent tuner. Without the AFR plots from dyno, you have absolutely zero data to work with and have no idea what zones to adjust and by how much.

On my 2005, I had free-flow air-filter, full Yosh titanium exhaust with CF muffler. Had it professionally tuned for track-racing using VP race-fuel. They made over 100 adjustments, some cells needed LOTS of fuel removed. Others needed minor enrichment. Many adjustments were in opposite directions between adjacent cells! Also bumped up ignition-advance little bit to take advantage of higher-octane. Result was a whopping +10bhp over stock! Worth about 0.5s per lap on most tracks in CA. On streets, never be able to tell difference!

It's misconception that factory fueling is lean. At idle and partial-throttle, it's set to most optimum AFR for emissions and mileage. Adding fuel in these zones would actually decrease power. But more power isn't required at idle & partial-throttle. Decreasing fuel and adding ignition would actually wake bike up with better throttle response from hotter combustion.

Under WOT where max-power is made, it's fat pig rich in 11.0:1 AFR range. Most manufacturers do this to stay away from edge of detonation/knocking for durability and safety. Result is leaving about 5-10% power on table since highest-power is produced around 13.0-13.5:1 on NA engines. Just leaning out WOT mixtures will automatically give you power-bump. Remember that '60s hot-rod saying...

So yeah, remove the PC and bike will behave lots better. Run some PEA-based fuel-system cleaner to remove deposits from injectors and engine and stumbling should go away.

  • Red Line SI-1
  • Techron Concentrate Plus
  • 3M Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner #08814
  • Royal Purple Max Atomizer 18000
  • Gumout All-in-One (this may come off list soon, PEA levels decreasing every year)
Might also want to send injectors out for cleaning and flow-testing. Measure fuel-rail pressure to make sure FPR is working properly. Measure fuel-pump flow at operating pressure. Compare to numbers in manual.
Very informative, thank you. Yes I am returning the power commander and the autotune I bought with it I actually already have that in process before seeing your message, I never hooked up the auto tune just the pcv and it ran like this with every single one I got. I did try injector cleaner (don't remember exact brand) and ran it far well over 100 miles but it did not seem to improve at all. Maybe ill try the brands you suggested. I may just try to get new injectors if I can, I know they probably wont be cheap though. Do you have a spot recommended to send them if I just send mine to be cleaned? I have no shops near me that are willing to work on my bike its all cruiser based bikes and carbed bikes they will work on, the main reason I came to the forum for extra help. This is the first bike that has stumped me to where I cant get it going smoothly unlike my other bikes. My only issue now without a pcv installed is the constant throttle speed stutter. If I wot from it it has no hesitation, no hiccupping, nothing at all its smooth as butter. Another reason I have been stumped on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Remove Power Commander and go back to stock. It'll behave A LOT better. Muffler replacement by itself won't increase air-flow, you need full-exhaust for that. And even then, it's only higher-flowing in top-end, with less flow in low-end.

PC is really only for race-bikes and requires dyno-tuning by competent tuner. Without the AFR plots from dyno, you have absolutely zero data to work with and have no idea what zones to adjust and by how much.

On my 2005, I had free-flow air-filter, full Yosh titanium exhaust with CF muffler. Had it professionally tuned for track-racing using VP race-fuel. They made over 100 adjustments, some cells needed LOTS of fuel removed. Others needed minor enrichment. Many adjustments were in opposite directions between adjacent cells! Also bumped up ignition-advance little bit to take advantage of higher-octane. Result was a whopping +10bhp over stock! Worth about 0.5s per lap on most tracks in CA. On streets, never be able to tell difference!

It's misconception that factory fueling is lean. At idle and partial-throttle, it's set to most optimum AFR for emissions and mileage. Adding fuel in these zones would actually decrease power. But more power isn't required at idle & partial-throttle. Decreasing fuel and adding ignition would actually wake bike up with better throttle response from hotter combustion.

Under WOT where max-power is made, it's fat pig rich in 11.0:1 AFR range. Most manufacturers do this to stay away from edge of detonation/knocking for durability and safety. Result is leaving about 5-10% power on table since highest-power is produced around 13.0-13.5:1 on NA engines. Just leaning out WOT mixtures will automatically give you power-bump. Remember that '60s hot-rod saying...

So yeah, remove the PC and bike will behave lots better. Run some PEA-based fuel-system cleaner to remove deposits from injectors and engine and stumbling should go away.

  • Red Line SI-1
  • Techron Concentrate Plus
  • 3M Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner #08814
  • Royal Purple Max Atomizer 18000
  • Gumout All-in-One (this may come off list soon, PEA levels decreasing every year)
Might also want to send injectors out for cleaning and flow-testing. Measure fuel-rail pressure to make sure FPR is working properly. Measure fuel-pump flow at operating pressure. Compare to numbers in manual.
Well after using pea based fuel injector cleaner ran through a whole tank of gas, throttle body sync, new airbox , also came with a new map sensor and iac sensor also once again checked all vacuum lines and etc my bike is still is hesitant when just going through the city at 25mph 35mph or even 55mph at a constant throttle, it feels like it’s jerking me back and frontwards when at a constant throttle, also when engine braking it’s not smooth it’s like it’s grabbing and letting go, I’ve tried everything people has posted on these forums and I’m still having issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Measure vacuum in hose going to MAP-sensor. Use rubber-T and connect to vacuum-gauge taped to dash:

1. what is vacuum at idle with warmed-up engine?
2. what is vacuum when you're going 25-35mph down road and it's stumbling?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Measure vacuum in hose going to MAP-sensor. Use rubber-T and connect to vacuum-gauge taped to dash:

1. what is vacuum at idle with warmed-up engine?
2. what is vacuum when you're going 25-35mph down road and it's stumbling?
I’d have to buy a vacuum gage, and yes it’s stumbling like in first gear 2nd gear really any gear at any constant throttle around 4k rpm’s mostly. It happens more noticeably when the bike is hot compared to cold but I can ride at 7-8k rpm’s all day and it wont have an issue but that’s loud with a coffmans slip on and not ideal. Even trying to stay behind traffic in the city I cannot keep it steady and smooth even though my throttle is. Im also not bogging the bike either I know what it’s like to bog a bike and this is not like that at all, It’s like at 4k rpm’s like I’m just tapping the throttle and it going rev rev rev when I’m holding a constant throttle but it’s jerking you and the bike back and fourth when in traffic, but yet if I full wot it from that position it has no other hesitation or anything, it literally goes as it should.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I’ve spent so much time and money on this bike I could of had a shop do it instead but I’ve dropped engines, replaced them, rewired bikes front to back, re routed vacuum hoses on bikes that were completely wrong from previous owners and etc. This is the first bike that had got me beat (so far) lol I like to work on my own bikes but I never had one problem like this that I couldn’t fix myself. I’m lost on where to go from here to be honest
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Fastest and cheapest way to troubleshoot is exactly same way shop does it. Invest in some basic tools mechanics have been using for +100 years: voltmeter and vacuum-gauge. Then they go through manual and perform tests on every system in order. This narrows down specific parts and identifies them as bad or good or needs adjustment based upon the numbers they measure.

Shops don't have giant parts warehouse in back to swap every single part possible for every single bike out there. That's just guessing and takes tonne of time and money. For example it takes 5-10 minutes max to test every single wire in harness end-to-end by measuring resistance. If wire has no resistance end-to-end, it's good. If it doesn't conduct electricity, it's broken somewhere in between.

Swapping entire harness does no good because unless you bought brand-new harness from authorised Honda dealer, it's gonna be used and questionable. It too will need to have every wire tested and confirmed good before using.

Same with shotgunning parts at bike. A LOT of 3rd-party parts are bad right out of box and needs to be tested and confirmed good before using. Might as well test those parts already on bike to determine if they're good or bad. Replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts will change nothing and symptoms will persist because actual problem hasn't been found yet.

Imagine swapping out and replacing every single light bulb on your bike. Will this fix your problem? What about testing those bulbs first? Such as in turning on lights, flipping turn-signals, pushing on brake-lever and pedal. Testing those bulbs will give you answers on whether they're good or not and you won't waste time replacing good bulbs. Bad bulbs have more to do with your problems than what you've done so far without testing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
There are multiple sensors that determine environmental parameters and gives data for ECU to determine fueling-amounts.

- IAT determines temp of incoming air. Colder air is more dense with more O2-molecules for unit volume, so ECU injects more fuel

- ECT measures temp of engine-coolant. Tells ECU if you've got cold-engine vs. hot warmed-up engine. Amount of fuel-injected will vary between hot & cold engine

- TPS measures angle of throttle-plate, gives one indicator of load to ECU

- MAP sensor determines how much air is getting into engine, another indicator of load to ECU

- RPM gives ECU data on engine-speed, thus total volume of air ingested. Obviously higher-RPMs sucks in more air, thus more petrol needed.

- O2-sensors give ECU feedback after its done all calculations above. This is kinda verification of whether it's done its caculations correctly and if not, it will use O2-sensor data to fine-tune its caculations


Any one or more of these sensors putting out incorrect or mis-calibrated data will throw off ECU's fuel-calculations and cause poor running. There's a test in manual for each and every one of these sensors that will let you determine if they are good, bad or need adjustment. No guessing needed, no desperate swapping of good parts with new parts needed. Answer to "what's wrong" will be so obvious, it's like a lion chewing on your leg, can't miss it!!!

PC is just interceptor that massages sensor data and feeds modified signal to ECU. Like with all computers and data-processing, garbage-in = garbage-out. If there's sensor that's bad or mis-adjusted and sending out incorrect/mis-calibrated data, no amount of adjustments with interceptor will fix that bad data. PC's function is to improve an already perfectly-working bike, not fix problems. Remove it and get your bike working perfectly first, then put PC to get better-than-stock performance.

BTW - we still don't know actual flow-rate of your injectors. Are they within stock parameter? What about fuel-pressure? Having numbers is key for troubleshooting and pinpointing problem areas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I would NOT trust ANY shoppe to do this kind of work. Most of them are sales outfits and don't have any staff that's more knowledgeable or experienced than you! I wouldn't trust them to even put on license-plate correctly!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,638 Posts
Was TPS calibrated with PC5? (It's done during setup)

FWIW, hook up the PC5 to a laptop, download program from DJ website and look at the Voltage output signal data from TPS to PC5.

Crank throttle from closed to open....slowwwly and watch V for jumps, or drops of the V from TPS, you want a steady(as follows your throttle manipulations)

I had a problem with a PC5 that was replaced on warranty from DJ about 11-12 years ago. TPS signal was being garbled by PC5 and sending bike into limp mode ....intermittently, usually after some peppy riding...

Keep posting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
There are multiple sensors that determine environmental parameters and gives data for ECU to determine fueling-amounts.

- IAT determines temp of incoming air. Colder air is more dense with more O2-molecules for unit volume, so ECU injects more fuel

- ECT measures temp of engine-coolant. Tells ECU if you've got cold-engine vs. hot warmed-up engine. Amount of fuel-injected will vary between hot & cold engine

- TPS measures angle of throttle-plate, gives one indicator of load to ECU

- MAP sensor determines how much air is getting into engine, another indicator of load to ECU

- RPM gives ECU data on engine-speed, thus total volume of air ingested. Obviously higher-RPMs sucks in more air, thus more petrol needed.

- O2-sensors give ECU feedback after its done all calculations above. This is kinda verification of whether it's done its caculations correctly and if not, it will use O2-sensor data to fine-tune its caculations


Any one or more of these sensors putting out incorrect or mis-calibrated data will throw off ECU's fuel-calculations and cause poor running. There's a test in manual for each and every one of these sensors that will let you determine if they are good, bad or need adjustment. No guessing needed, no desperate swapping of good parts with new parts needed. Answer to "what's wrong" will be so obvious, it's like a lion chewing on your leg, can't miss it!!!

PC is just interceptor that massages sensor data and feeds modified signal to ECU. Like with all computers and data-processing, garbage-in = garbage-out. If there's sensor that's bad or mis-adjusted and sending out incorrect/mis-calibrated data, no amount of adjustments with interceptor will fix that bad data. PC's function is to improve an already perfectly-working bike, not fix problems. Remove it and get your bike working perfectly first, then put PC to get better-than-stock performance.

BTW - we still don't know actual flow-rate of your injectors. Are they within stock parameter? What about fuel-pressure? Having numbers is key for troubleshooting and pinpointing problem areas.
I guess I will need to invest in some more diagnostic tools, Thanks ill come back whenever I'm able to do this, appreciate your help.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top