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Something occured to me today that I'd like to put out there to all those who think a 600cc bike is a fine first bike. I know it can become a raging debate (250/500 vs 600 as first bike). I've seen plenty of threads degenerate into that debate and I'm sure this will be no exception to that.

So, what I commonly hear is that a 600 can be a good first bike so long as you "are mature, respect the power, etc". So, my question is, if thats all it takes to learn to ride on a sportbike, why dont the same rules apply to learning on a liter sportbike? How do you make the distinction between a 600 being good, and a liter not being good to start on?

I ask because the difference between a 500cc and a 600cc is HUGE, but the difference between a 600 and a 1000 (at least on the street) isnt very big at all.
 

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I think the main thing is that in a 600 wide open throttle is much more tame than in a liter bike. Street or not, lots of noobs want to go out and experiment with their bikes, and ride them as if on a track, not a street. I know I did, and I'm sure 99% of all of us on the forum did the same thing. Dont lie. Thats where the respect truly comes from.
 

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alot of guys couldn't handle a 160hp CAR without getting speed happy...(look at those b18b swap guys in their civics and teggies)....let alone 160hp to ONE wheel....

u REALLY think a first timer is ready to be on a bike that runs mid 10s??
let alone a liter, which can be up to .5 seconds faster acceleration-wise.
 

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600rr are alot more forgiving on your high speed mistakes than say...gsxr1000. noob throttle control will more likely cause one of those hairy "oh sh!t" moments ...which in many cases will toss your arse off the bike. i rode my friend's R1...and i thought all that power was too easy. i feel that the 600rr offers me more challenge as a beginner, because i have to work extra harder to stay in the powerband. i ride with bunch of veteran riders who switched from literbikes to 600cc bikes...and they're no slouch.
 

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I agree, my reasoning for telling people to start with a 600cc or less is due to noob throttle control. With a 1000cc, a quick snap of the throttle can put a noob on his rear end before he even knew what happened... with a 600cc it'll take a little more stupidity to do the same. I think that a person learns respect for the power a lot better this way.

I also just think that 1000cc is too much for the street the way it is... noob or not. I don't suggest it for anyone at all.
 

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The reason I started with the 600 is weight. At 260# I would have been pushing the 250 up hills.

But as far as your question goes, Maturity and respect for the bike applies no matter the cc's.

I was also 31 when I bought the RR, way past the young dumb I'm invinsible stage.
 

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The reason I picked the 600 over the 1000 as a first bike was the weight, power and turning ability.

But to answer your question, Yes. . . .the same rules apply as if it was a 600. .. its all about throttle control and maturity.

And if I had the money i would have gotten a raven r1 as a first bike > : )
 

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Well.. Im not necessarily one of those guys.. But I learnerd on a 600 Katana and I think thats a great bike to learn on.. No way your doing a wheelie on that thing, not that hard to controll and learn on.. Also I think SV650 is probalbly another good 600's learning bike.. There's no comparison between that and a thousand..
Shade-
 

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Is it me or is everyone generally avoiding the point of his post except for NesNeedsBoost?

He's saying those that apply the mentality of 'respect the bike' for their reasoning behind saying a 600cc super sport bike is okay as a beginner bike should, at least, have no problem recommending a 1000cc super sport bike as a beginner bike - so long as the same mentality is applied.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
baffula said:
Is it me or is everyone generally avoiding the point of his post except for NesNeedsBoost?

He's saying those that apply the mentality of 'respect the bike' for their reasoning behind saying a 600cc super sport bike is okay as a beginner bike should, at least, have no problem recommending a 1000cc super sport bike as a beginner bike - so long as the same mentality is applied.
my point exactly. I get that the 1000 has more power but with the number of people I hear about that toss their bikes blocks from their house because of "cold tires" (actually, its lack of throttle control) on their 600's I dont think the 600, any 600 is a peice of cake. if you can "respect the power" and start on a 600, why wouldnt you start on a 1000.

I'm not condoning it (starting on a 1000) in any way. If you've been paying attention to anything I've ever said here (uh, unlikely) one would know that I am a big believer of starting small-250/500 small. I just dont understand how 140hp is the devil but 100 hp is okay for a complete noob.

You can open the throttle wide open on a 600 and still be going faster than you can handle pretty quickly. Not so true on a 250/500...

Someone on another forum where I posted the same question stated something interesting: These days the cbr600f3 is a commonly recommended first bike, but 10 years ago when it was new one wouldnt THINK about recommending one. The bike hasnt changed...
 

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I chose the 600RR. I stayed away from the liter bikes due to the extra torque and power in the lower end of the rev range. At the moment, I'm not riding at the upper end of the rev range, which I was planning on from the start. My rational was to not buy a bike that had that extra grunt. Maybe it's not true, but that was my thinking.

I'm very happy so far with my choice. The power has been very managable and smooth. But then again, I've stayed below 9,000 rpm, so I'm not in the sweet spot of the power band yet. Mostly just practicing my turns and stops and getting a feel for the bike.

My cousin offered to let me try his '05 R1, but I declined. At some point I will, and then I'll be able to see what the difference is. He did ride my RR though, and said there was a noticable difference in power at lower revs.
 

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I've had a Ninja 500, 01 R6, 03 R1, 03 600RR, the Ninja 500 was great to learn on, let's be honest, we all are going to take the bike and twist the throttle A LOT from time to time, I think a 250 or 500, probably a 500 is the best way to learn, then sell it the next season and probably get most of your money back anyway, so then I moved on to the R6, wow, so different, I liked the way it tracked better, so smooth through the curves, power plenty, that got stolen, was going to go buy another one, next thing I know I was thinkin' hmmm maybe R1 just for a change, insane power, chaos :) but in a good way, however not as easy to throw around like the 6 in the twisties but the extra power was a blast, traded that toward Warrior, now I have the 600RR...
 

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If it's a 600, 1000, or any other bike......it will only do what you make it do. If you have a brain btween your ears and have a good sense of self control I see no reason to not start on a liter. I had very limited two wheel seat time before I bought my first bike in 98. I really wanted a 900RR but chose the F3 because I knew I had no idea what I was doing. I had a bunch of friends that were pushing me to get the 900 but stuck with what my gutt told me.
 

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I have no problem at all with people learning on a 250, 500, 600, or 1000 cc bike... The problem I have is the "sportbike" after the # of cc's. I feel like some people want to start off on a sportbike just to look 'cool.' I totally see where pantablo is coming from here though. If you say you have to "respect the bike" and all of that stuff you should be able to start on anything. I think most of us need to just step back and realize that even these 600's are f*cking fast. I opened mine full throttle yesterday and sh!t... almost forgot over the winter.
 

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to me the scariest thing about my bike is the fact that there is nothing to stop me from killing myself... cars have governors, air bags, etc etc etc... on a 600 or 1000 if you are dumb enough to twist the throttle that much, your dumb enough to die. Darwinism at it's best but it's also what gets a lot of people in trouble... now I know a bunch of people dump there bikes because of lack of throttle control, rider error, whatever...

One MAIN problem with this though, they don't know the LIMIT of there bike. They don't know what it feels like when it starts to slide in 45 degree weather on a cold road on a cloudy day... so they don't know when to start correcting it... This mistake on a 600 or 1000 can kill you... so can panicking and making a bad decision. But the difference to me is when a 600 bites you, it bites you... a 1000 bites you much harder because the powerband is sig. more abrupt.

Our 600's gradually develop power over a long RPM range, so you don't get nearly as many suprises when you gun it as you do on a 1000... in a 1000 you've got 3000 less RPM and 50-60 more horsepower... it's nuts. The throttle control has to be THAT much more precise and that is what gets a lot of people in over there heads.
 

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600s are more manueverable as well. It takes a skilled rider to avoid hazards on a liter bike. The reason I didnt get a 1000rr for my first bike is because I knew I could trust myself with it, the power would tempt me and probably get me hurt or killed.
 

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"those that apply the mentality of 'respect the bike' for their reasoning behind saying a 600cc super sport bike is okay as a beginner bike should, at least, have no problem recommending a 1000cc super sport bike as a beginner bike - so long as the same mentality is applied."

This whole discussion is retarded, no one would ever apply the same mentality to 1000. A 600 I say is a mid level bike, a 1000 is a top level. The hp may be near as close in numbers, but on the street the 2 bikes are worlds apart. Its not all about the throttle with a 1000 its overall size of the bike and weight too. And "respect for the bike" should apply to more than just throttle control like cornering, balancing, breaking, etc.. I think as people that ride motorcycles get more experienced, the common sense is so 2nd nature to them that they think non-riders should know more than they do, and they would rather see them grow into the bike instead of starting on the 250 and in a month or 2 have to sell it because its not what they want anymore. If you start off on a 250 thats great, but I bet its gone or you want it gone pretty quick.

A 600 is not a "top level" bike quite like a 1000, its the rider that can make the 600 a top level bike. No one would ever recommend starting at the top level with just respecting the bike....


I don't know its too hard to explain, 600's are dangerous as hell no doubt, but with enough common sense and human motor skills(mainly things like balance and sense of speed....not like engine stuff) I too think people can handle starting on a 600 if they go through a training course and have more than enough self control. I started on my 600rr and so did my wife on hers. I think starting off on a 250-500 would have driven me nuts, it may have been fun the first day or two but thats about it. Also for the first month or two all we did was country riding, where as alot of beginners run for the city where they will get into trouble.

The moral of the story: Don't recommend motorcycles to stupid people, it just makes them react even more stupid!!!!
 
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