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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
lol I guess i could have added that info from the start. I have PCV with auto tune, full yoshi RS-5 race exhaust, and K&N race filter.

I think they look "OK" as well but if anything, maybe a little too lean.
I have been running a very similar tune to the base map that dynojet provides for my mods. I just made the tune a little bit leaner in some areas according to target AFR with auto tune to get a little more power out of the bike. I have only recently started the transition from street riding to track and i will definitely be abusing the bike more, after looking at the plugs im thinking i should maybe put some of my target AFRs back or just richer in general to be on the safer side.

I will be searching on her for other recommended fuel maps/target AFRs, but figured i could get some visual opinions on what came out of the bike.
 

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I wouldn't put too much faith in a "base map for your bike". They may or may not get you close. They may make things worse.

A couple of those plugs look too lean to me. Look at how the electrode(s) has been rounded off and appears to be missing material. They're no longer a nice squared off tip like the others. What's your bike temperature been running since you changed the A/F?

If you only have (1) O2 sensor in the main header then how does the PC5 know what individual cylinders are doing concerning A/F ratio? Before making major changes to your entire fuel map use the cylinder trim function in the PC software "Tools...Trim Cylinders ". Add fuel to the cylinder(s) that look too lean and see how it goes.
 

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Plug reading is no longer accurate due to unleaded petrol. Even more useless with ethanol added. It really depends upon whether you want to tune idle-mixtures, partial-throttle cruising mixtures or WOT for max power.

To do true plug reading, flush tank and run leaded petrol for at least 5-minutes, then:

1. install brand new plugs
2. do ONE WOT run to redline
3. immediately chop throttle and squeeze clutch
4. coast to side of road and pull plugs before they've had chance to cool

Reading plugs that's been in bike for while through multiple start/stop cycles is useless because they show average of entire time they've been in bike. Most of it ridden at partial-throttle with O2-sensor feedback keeping mixtures at 14.7:1 AFR resulting in lean-looking plugs (which I assume are those plugs above). But mixtures will be too rich in 11:1 AFR range under WOT, sacrificing tonne of power.

Having modern tuning tools such as wideband-O2 or dyno is only way to know for sure rather than ancient witchcraft of reading tea-leaves.

For example, here's 2 sets of brand-new plugs from exact same 2-cylinder bike on exact same day, with no changes to anything
 

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For example, here's dyno chart with AFR of bike with exhaust-servo removed:



Due to less flow than stock with servo removed, but same OEM fueling, it's way, way too rich in mid-range. Yet too lean in high-end (dangerous). No way you can get this kind of data by looking at plugs that bike is BOTH too rich AND too lean at same time. Then proper tuning is to remove tonne of mid-range WOT fuel and add a little to high-end.

BTW - auto-tune is only for initial mapping. Only turn it ON initially when bike's fully warmed up. Then run through all load-rows and RPM-ranges for it to do its work. Then turn auto-tune OFF. Next stage is to datalog wideband-O2 through all those ranges and manually fine-tune maps by hand based upon datalogged data.
 

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Some good information.

This why people in the forum with codes on their bikes ask questions after some previous owner removed all the necessary stuff.

Lmao.

Everyone should leave their exhaust servo alone. It gives you more engine output torque at the low end. Exhaust servo is not significantly screwing your top end over.
But their butt dyno said it was better!

Some good truth in this thread. This is why I've been telling people for years that if you want your fuel map done correctly you have to get it on a dyno with a tuner who knows what they're doing. Just about everything else is guessing and hen pecking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
BTW - auto-tune is only for initial mapping. Only turn it ON initially when bike's fully warmed up. Then run through all load-rows and RPM-ranges for it to do its work. Then turn auto-tune OFF. Next stage is to datalog wideband-O2 through all those ranges and manually fine-tune maps by hand based upon datalogged data.
thanks for the info, makes sense about not checking plugs like that any more anymore. i do also have the pod300 for data logging as well but have not had the chance to actually use it for that purpose, i intend on making the fine adjustments there accordingly.

i dont disagree with having a dyno tune and im by no means a professional tuner. i am an auto mechanic and have worked at a resto-mod shop for a while where we would use the HOLLY EFI kits and tune the cars our self there, so im confident in knowing what im doing to an extent, and the target AFR we used for the cars are definitely on the leaner side, but again those engines are not revving out at 10k-14kRPM like our bikes are. so i guess the ultimate answer here is to disregard the plugs and just make my adjustments according to my logged data when i get some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
A couple of those plugs look too lean to me. Look at how the electrode(s) has been rounded off and appears to be missing material. They're no longer a nice squared off tip like the others.
the electrodes are ok, they look the same as the new ones that are now in the bike, its just how they are.
 

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No kidding. You've had a data logger the whole time and haven't used it? In my line of work data logging shows me more of how a system is actually operating than a functional test would prove that it's capable of the design intent. It's necessary to confirm the fine details but you need to put a system through it's paces in order to really see how it's performing. Trend data over time completes the big picture. Without it you're flying blind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
lol yea i only had the POD300 for a short time, had it for 2 track weekends (first time on the track) and i was overwhelmed with so many things that i didnt even think to log anything. it is definitely on the top of my list for next season lol.
 

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lol yea i only had the POD300 for a short time, had it for 2 track weekends (first time on the track) and i was overwhelmed with so many things that i didnt even think to log anything. it is definitely on the top of my list for next season lol.
Sweet piece of kit. I wish it would connect to my PC3. I looked at a few kits for data logging just the AFR and they were $2-300. I couldn't justify the money because I have no complaints about how this bike is running.
 

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Sweet piece of kit. I wish it would connect to my PC3. I looked at a few kits for data logging just the AFR and they were $2-300. I couldn't justify the money because I have no complaints about how this bike is running.
You can pick up wideband-O2 unit with on-board memory for datalogging for ~$200. TechEdge AU - 2Y2 DIY kit

It's actually only fully-digital unit on market, rather than sending 0-5v analogue output to gauge or datalogger like others. Innovate is worse offender with unregulated reference-voltage for that 0-5v output, they just use battery voltage. So their AFR display will change when you turn headlights on!! Many Porsche engines have been destroyed by using Innovate LM1 wideband! So only go with fully-digital wideband.

I built TechEdge AU's original AO1 kit over 20-yrs ago and still using it today. All-in-1 unit's so handy and compact. Just push button to start datalogging O2, RPM, TPS, MAP and speed and go out on track. Then download data to laptop for analysis when you finish track session.



Don't worry about so much soldering, newer 2Y2 kit is mostly pre-assembled SMD PCB, just put it together like Legos. Only couple of resistors need soldering. Yeah, I just got one of these newer 2Y2 for my track bike. It uses USB instead of A01's serial 9-pin interface, gonna convert to Bluetooth. Can even add EGT in future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You can pick up wideband-O2 unit with on-board memory for datalogging for ~$200. TechEdge AU - 2Y2 DIY kit

It's actually only fully-digital unit on market, rather than sending 0-5v analogue output to gauge or datalogger like others. Innovate is worse offender with unregulated reference-voltage for that 0-5v output, they just use battery voltage. So their AFR display will change when you turn headlights on!! Many Porsche engines have been destroyed by using Innovate LM1 wideband! So only go with fully-digital wideband.

I built TechEdge AU's original AO1 kit over 20-yrs ago and still using it today. All-in-1 unit's so handy and compact. Just push button to start datalogging O2, RPM, TPS, MAP and speed and go out on track. Then download data to laptop for analysis when you finish track session.



Don't worry about so much soldering, newer 2Y2 kit is mostly pre-assembled SMD PCB, just put it together like Legos. Only couple of resistors need soldering. Yeah, I just got one of these newer 2Y2 for my track bike. It uses USB instead of A01's serial 9-pin interface, gonna convert to Bluetooth. Can even add EGT in future.
nice that looks like o good kit too, if i ver get a differnt bike or something i will have to check it out for sure
 
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