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Now...I can seriously out ride a lot of guys that have been riding their entire lives. I'm touting my ego like I'm the next MotoGP champ, but I can ride. I'm not trying to grandstand at all, but just like you mentioned and I hold high belief, not all of us are created equal. Some are better than others at certain things and have the talent to jump on a 600cc for a first bike and be perfectly fine.
This reminds me of a story a good friend of mine and I were recounting over last weekend when were riding in Tennessee and North Carolina in the Deals Gap area. We have been going there for almost 20 years now as a group once or twice a year, sometimes it’s two of us, sometimes it’s as many as 5 or 6 depending on the turn out. Around 10 years ago there were 5 of us and one was my friends coworker who had been riding sportbijes for years and was the best rider of his group. We left the house we were staying at and headed to the Gap as a group and then started really riding. Note, we all adhere pretty close to The Pace style of sport riding: ride about 70-80% of your “ability” and you have a decent margin of error if something unforeseen happens.

After the first 5 or 6 corners we easily lost him, and when we regrouped at the end he pulled up and couldn’t believe the pace were were running. He thought he was quite the rider until he discovered you’re only as “good” as you think you are. The above statement reminds me of that.

I contribute a lot of the posts where veterans are scolding other new riders to not get a 600cc because of their own fevered egos. They think that they are so masterful and that no one can possibly achieve their Rossiness unless they get a 250 or 300 to start on. It's a forum people...you don't know who most of these newbies are in real life...
Veterans aren’t scolding anyone about not starting on a 600 due to their egos (you don’t get to be a veteran rider without having some knowledge, BTW), they (we) have been there, gone through it, and realize what it takes to be a skilled rider for the long haul and maybe have even taught new riders to ride at some point. They also know because they’ve experienced it, that MOST people don’t have the mental ability to deal with multiple new things at one time so taking the consequences of poor throttle control and weight out of the equation helps the rider helps more easily develop the needed skills to properly control a motorcycle.

You started on a 600 and are now a mini-Rossi, great, more power to you. But know 99% of other new riders aren’t and you would not have been hurt by starting on a 250 or 300, even if it would have only been a few month. I can almost guarantee that you wouldn’t have had your track day mishap if you’d started on a smaller bike.

If you were to start playing guitar, would your first try at it be on a stage, in front of 5,000 people trying to play Eruption? No, you yake lessens, you start with Mary Had a Little Lamb and go from there. Same thing. Some people are naturally talented, EVH is one who never had a lesson, but most are not.

Seems to me like the fevered ego is yours.
 

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I don't think anyone's going to be swaying other people's opinions on this matter on what people should be starting on, and that's fine - it is a forum after all and it's good discussion.

However, I do think statements like this is a pre-cursor for a big accident.




You are probably out-riding a lot of guys who have been riding their entire lives because they have probably been in a similar situation/mindset as yours and then did something to re-evaluate how they ride. You are not more talented than anyone else over here. No one is impressed that you jumped on a 600cc as a first bike and rode around the parking lot. "but I can ride" - OK? So can about 500 million other people the world over.

As TheX said above, have fun, but don't be surprised if you find yourself re-evaluating your riding after baring your grandiose ego for everyone to see and then having a moment of enlightenment in a year.

There are people in competitive racing who have been racing 600s for years starting off on 50cc bikes at a young age. But what an honour on our very own forum here to have the next Isle of Man, MotoGP, WSBK, AMA, BSB Championship here with us! Hear hear C. Chaos. We'll be sure to consult your vast riding experience. I recommend you go around and preach to the "veterans" about how you can out ride them.

First off...I have edited my initial post in this thread, as I left some key words out of a sentence that completely threw all of your interpretations of my post off 360 degrees; please go back and re-read what I meant to type. I should have proofread my post better before I replied. I can see why you posted this smart ass comment and rightfully so IF I had meant to mean how you understood my post. Like I said...leaving some key words out makes my post read completely different.

I was trying to say that I am NOT some MotoGP rider or some pro AMA rider, but I can ride the bike, OK.

Now...I"m not going to go toe-to-toe with every single one of you here defending what I type. All was trying to say, is that some people can start on a 600 and be fine. I have been one of them and I have grown to be a good rider. This is all I was tying to say, but wanted to breakdown my rationale a bit to explain myself in my post above.
 

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Veterans aren’t scolding anyone about not starting on a 600 due to their egos (you don’t get to be a veteran rider without having some knowledge, BTW), they (we) have been there, gone through it, and realize what it takes to be a skilled rider for the long haul and maybe have even taught new riders to ride at some point. They also know because they’ve experienced it, that MOST people don’t have the mental ability to deal with multiple new things at one time so taking the consequences of poor throttle control and weight out of the equation helps the rider helps more easily develop
There is another bike forum that I am a member of and they will down right run new members off if they come on there thinking they want to start on a 600. I won't name the site, but I have seen so many guys get belittled and degraded to the point they leave and never come back. I mean...if I was the forum owner I would be firing some mods because they are part of it and running forum traffic off. Why not help them instead? But anyway...whatever.

All I was tying to really get across, is that everyone is NOT equal. Some are more talented than others and picks up things faster. This really was the bottom line of my entire post.
 

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First off...I have edited my initial post in this thread, as I left some key words out of a sentence that completely threw all of your interpretations of my post off 360 degrees; please go back and re-read what I meant to type. I should have proofread my post better before I replied. I can see why you posted this smart ass comment and rightfully so IF I had meant to mean how you understood my post. Like I said...leaving some key words out makes my post read completely different.

I was trying to say that I am NOT some MotoGP rider or some pro AMA rider, but I can ride the bike, OK.

Now...I"m not going to go toe-to-toe with every single one of you here defending what I type. All was trying to say, is that some people can start on a 600 and be fine. I have been one of them and I have grown to be a good rider. This is all I was tying to say, but wanted to breakdown my rationale a bit to explain myself in my post above.

I already understood what you meant by that part, I recognised it as a typo. That is not the part I was having a go at you for. Rather, the parts where you were claiming to outride other people. It is scary and sad that you still don't recognise it for the problem it is.

We all know not everyone has the same "talent". Some people are genetically predisposed to being much stronger and I wouldn't be surprised if a complete gym novice who by the virtue of their genetics can start bench pressing 100kg straight away. However, I do not see any legitimate trainer recommending this. Most likely they'll get them to start where everyone else is at, look at their form, position, etc and work on muscle groups that are still underdeveloped.

In a similar manner, success of riding supersports properly is not about riding it around on the car park and surviving.


There is another bike forum that I am a member of and they will down right run new members off if they come on there thinking they want to start on a 600. I won't name the site, but I have seen so many guys get belittled and degraded to the point they leave and never come back. I mean...if I was the forum owner I would be firing some mods because they are part of it and running forum traffic off. Why not help them instead? But anyway...whatever.

All I was tying to really get across, is that everyone is NOT equal. Some are more talented than others and picks up things faster. This really was the bottom line of my entire post.
It could very well be because those 'veterans' and perhaps even some of us here who aren't veterans have seen new riders come and go with the same predictable threads year after year. They will usually ask for advice about starting on a 600/1000 - but won't listen and go ahead and buy it anyway.

This is usually followed a month or two later about how they crashed but insist it had nothing to do with their starting choice of bike but everything to do with the rider in front of them, sand in their eye, animals crossing the road, grandmothers driving badly next to them etc. I have also seen some blame the power delivery of the bike and how it isn't quite right :retard:

Anyway, you have been riding for a while so it's not like you have much to gain by jumping on a 250 now. Ride safe, and hopefully I'll bump into you on another subject/thread where we have the same point of view. :wink2:
 

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A 40mph collision will kill you the regardless of the displacement size of your engine.

I started riding on a 600, but I've ridden all other sorts of bikes. The biggest issue I think newer riders need to address on super sports is the way they handle, not their engines. For the most part I find power delivery in a 600cc SS to be pretty consistent and predictable. The same mistakes that people attribute to powerful sportsbikes and new riders can be made in exactly the same way with small CC bikes and new riders. I've seen guys grab a handfull of throttle in class and get put on his ass on those 250 suzuki we had.

At the end of the day it really comes down to the person. Whether the person recognizes what they are riding, what it is capable of doing, whether they recognize their strengths and weaknesses in hand-eye coordination, ability to think in quick potentially stressful situations, how they handle stress, how they recognize mistakes and learn from them, whether they can quickly analyze situations or have the ability to react outside of just panic actions (ex. grabbing the brakes).
 

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Here's the deal, I'm going to speak the truth and many will not like it.

There are some people that can start on a 600cc sportbike, and develop their skills not just in handling the bike, but negotiating traffic, road conditions, weather, etc. It all depends on the individuals mindset/approach, athletic abilities, common sense, good judgement, and quite frankly instinct. That said, we are all human, and people do make mistakes, and starting on a 600 will increase that possibility if you fail in any one of the "criteria" I mentioned previously.

The advantages of starting out on a smaller displacement motorcycle is that you can fail in one or more criteria, and still remain relatively in control of the situation. If you do get into an accident, you have a better chance to escape major injury or damage to your bike, but the possibility of something serious is still very real. Furthermore, because the speeds are lower, it lessons the desire to go fast which results in the individual paying more attention to mastering the basics.

The disadvantage of starting out on a smaller displacement motorcycle is you will likely lose some money when you upgrade to a 600, and .... when you do get on the 600, it will be almost like learning how to ride all over again - it truly is a different beast. This is similar when going from a 600 to a 1000.

Now for the haters of my post - I completely understand, and quite frankly even agree, I just lean on the side of depending on who you are, you might be able to do it and do it well.

One last thing - 1000's are definitely off the table ;)
I agree with most everything you stated. I rode a Ninja 300 for two years and I am now on the market for a CBR. I think the biggest assets anyone can have on a bike is a positive mindset, confidence in your abilities, and good judgement.

The more you ride, the more confident you become and the more experience you gain, the more likely you are to positively manage obstacles that arise - even though some are unavoidable. One of my biggest takeaways from the MSF course was about risk offset. The lower skilled you are, the less risks you should be taking (ex. taking a curve at or below the suggested speed) and the higher skilled you are, the more risks you can take (ex. taking that same curve at a faster speed).

Regardless of bike choice, it is imperative to master the basics. I'll let you know how the jump from 300 to 600 is for me.
 

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When I first saw 2007 CBR600RR, 10 years ago, I thought that it's perfect bike, the most beautiful bike I have ever seen. I was 26 y.o. at the time and I never rode anything in my life, except of bicycles in early childhood :))
But you know - work, family, kids and responsibility - tons and tons of everyday stuff that never let me to even approach my dream.

10 years later, sometime on April this year I finally decided that if I won't get a bike in the next 2-3 years, it will probably never happen. So, I found local MSF (CMSP) course, flipped over the front wheel on that little Honda Grom they had, scratched my back, still completed it, started reading theory for DMV exam and stumbled upon this article, which had some amazingly good points (or so I thought).

And around that time I prepared for final negotiations with my wife :))) Ah, family life, it's always art of the deal. Surprisingly, but she was cautiously supportive, said that she won't stay in the way of my dreams and maybe, if I'll survive the first season, next year she will take the MSF course on her own. But I MUST get a nice little 300cc bike. And be smart. And wear every bit of protection I can grab. And she really wants to believe that I'm responsible enough, grown-up enough (despite the evidence in other fields) and well, that she just wants to believe in good.

Nice. After reading all advises in this post and throughout the net, I firmly believed that 2 y.o. Ninja 300, R3 or CBR300 is the way to go. So, one nice morning, 3 days before my DMV exam I went to the little dealership specializing on used bikes - I knew they had one nice CBR300 that matched my criteria. And then I saw HER - sweet, orange 2008 CBR600RR, shining in the streams of light, was standing in the dusty storage room amongst other bikes. A tear of joy run down my cheek, I called sick to work (and it was true) and will work at Sat, minimally mechanically inspected the bike (she was perfect anyway), grabbed U-haul trailer (I still had no license at the time, nor I was ready to ride home) and drove back home, smiling to the thought that my wife will probably be picking kids from school or on the playground by the time when I'll get back home.

We met at the intersection near the house, she was running late. I waved to her and smiled, she looked at me, at bike and I suddenly knew that the dog house is going to be my home for the long weeks to come. She said that she's really disappointed and her belief in my judgement, maturity and etc. has shattered but she will still hold me on my promise to put every bit of protection I can find. Including racing suit. Kiddos came and said that they are disappointed too and they will never ever ride on my bike. I grabbed my sleeping bag, old pillow and thrown them into the garage corner.

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On the serious note, buying first bike is highly irrational act by itself. I got lucky so far, even though I can't recount in how many stupidly dangerous and potentially deadly situations I've been for the last months and couple thousands miles. Personally, I wouldn't recommend anyone to start on 4-stroke 600cc. Usually, it's not up to the some talent or physical capability, but rather sheer luck. Being 25+ y.o. probably helps too.
 
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