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Discussion Starter #1
http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/23/report-tsa-detains-sen-rand-paul-in-nashville/

can you believe this!? he is a senator. TSA has got to go!
do you feel safer knowing these goons are fingering little children and old ladies?
detaining senators and whatnot?

all in the name of 'security' ....

its time to change this crap, this is an outrage. :cursin:

no 'terrorist' can hi-jack a plane if good american citizens were able to carry fire arms.


we really need serious changes in this country ASAP
 

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First and foremost, I think the TSA has gone completely overboard.

BUT, I actually think that this particular episode is a good thing. If the law is in place, it's got to be applied evenly. Those in power should not simply be immune to their own laws and systems. Isn't that the sort of crap that has put America in its current situation?
 

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If something didnt look right in the scanner, they absolutely SHOULD detain him. If he is resisting, then HE escalated the situation, not TSA. They did absolutely what they were supposed to do. I don't give a **** if you're the virgin mary, if something looks suspicious, you get further attention, simple as that.
 

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Senator is a job title and, no matter how fancy a person's job title, they're still a person. They aren't better than any other person in the line. People think that titles and fancy clothes make them better than other people, but that's not the case at all. Equality across the board. That's what this country needs.
 

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First and foremost, I think the TSA has gone completely overboard.

BUT, I actually think that this particular episode is a good thing. If the law is in place, it's got to be applied evenly. Those in power should not simply be immune to their own laws and systems. Isn't that the sort of crap that has put America in its current situation?
If something didnt look right in the scanner, they absolutely SHOULD detain him. If he is resisting, then HE escalated the situation, not TSA. They did absolutely what they were supposed to do. I don't give a **** if you're the virgin mary, if something looks suspicious, you get further attention, simple as that.
:+1:

Regardless of who he is, if something doesn't look right then he's not exempt. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for bad dudes to infiltrate the government (not that I'm saying he's necessarily a bad dude, but just look at some historical political figures). No job title or status would be above this.

I think Rand Paul's refusal to the pat down says a lot more about his attitude than the request says about the attitude of TSA officials.

 

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Regardless of who he is, if something doesn't look right then he's not exempt.
You, and they, are in fact wrong.

Article 1, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution:
Freedom of speech and debate in Congress shall not be impeached or questioned in any Court, or place out of Congress, and the members of congress shall be protected in their persons from arrests and imprisonments, during the time of their going to and from, and attendance on congress, except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace.
If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
 

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You, and they, are in fact wrong.

Article 1, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution:


If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
I'm 100% sure Art. 1, s.6 doesn't exempt a Senator from a pat down if a scanner shows up something suspicious. At the point of asking for a pat down, he isn't being arrested, reasonable suspicions are merely being investigated.

His refusal could leave those investigating reasonable suspicions, of a potential felony, with no other option but to detain or arrest him. Depending on the circumstances, his refusal could also constitute a breach of the peace, for which he could lawfully be arrested.

I don't think we should live our lives in fear of terrorism. On the other hand I don't think anybody should take anything for granted either.

The legal basis for your argument that Senators are, in fact, above the law in this scenario, is also flawed.
 

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I'm 100% sure Art. 1, s.6 doesn't exempt a Senator from a pat down if a scanner shows up something suspicious. At the point of asking for a pat down, he isn't being arrested, reasonable suspicions are merely being investigated.

His refusal could leave those investigating reasonable suspicions, of a potential felony, with no other option but to detain or arrest him. Depending on the circumstances, his refusal could also constitute a breach of the peace, for which he could lawfully be arrested.
Actually, it does. The reason it's there is because anyone could "become suspicious" of a Congressman/Senator and detain them thus preventing them from meeting their obligation of representing their constituents.

If you read it, it says they can't be arrested/detained UNLESS it's one of the following. Not unless you have suspicions of the following or you want to investigate something.

I don't think we should live our lives in fear of terrorism. On the other hand I don't think anybody should take anything for granted either.
Too late, mindless sheep already think that the TSA is needed to protect them from a non existent boogieman. TSA is nothing more than security theater. There is and NEVER WILL BE a way to be 100% safe.

If someone really wants to blow up a plane (and themselves in the process) all they need to do is shove a stick of stick of dynamite/C4 up their ass and no screening/pat down would ever detect it. Then what? Cavity searches for every person that wants to board a plane?

Seriously, people such as yourself need to wake up. The cure is far worse than the original disease ever was. Pissing away all kinds of money for nothing, it hasn't even been shown to be effective. Just more bullsh*t to help condition people that there are lots of bad people out there.

The legal basis for your argument that Senators are, in fact, above the law in this scenario, is also flawed.
He's not above the law, but the constitution clearly says that he can't be detained in the course of doing his job. Despite you trying to paint Senators/Congressmen as "normal folk" they do have many legal protections, privileges and immunities afforded to them that regular citizens do not. This is one of them.
 

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Too late, mindless sheep already think that the TSA is needed to protect them from a non existent boogieman. TSA is nothing more than security theater. There is and NEVER WILL BE a way to be 100% safe.

If someone really wants to blow up a plane (and themselves in the process) all they need to do is shove a stick of stick of dynamite/C4 up their ass and no screening/pat down would ever detect it. Then what? Cavity searches for every person that wants to board a plane?

Seriously, people such as yourself need to wake up. The cure is far worse than the original disease ever was. Pissing away all kinds of money for nothing, it hasn't even been shown to be effective. Just more bullsh*t to help condition people that there are lots of bad people out there.
:thumbup:


By the way they allow matches on the plane. FYI
No nail clippers. What if I make a sharp object from carbon fiber?
It is all about illusion of safety.
My recent trip to overseas made me confirm this once again.
Do they have many undercover security to stop someone who wants to do something bad at the airport? From what I observed many of them are small size females or out of shape mid age men. Are these people the ones who are going to keep us safe?
 

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You, and they, are in fact wrong.

Article 1, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution:


If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
Bringing a weapon onto a commercial plane is a felony in many states.
TSA website about weapons: LINK
The actual CFR: LINK

So, him being detained for a possible felony is perfectly legal.
 

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So, him being detained for a possible felony is perfectly legal.
If he was actually committing a felony (walking around with the gun in plain sight, and trying to board a plane/get through security with it...) then it would be perfectly legal. The suspicion alone is not enough to detain a Senator/Congressman. They are not "normal" citizens, there are special laws in place for these people.

What's to stop your political enemies from detaining you of a "suspicious"/possible felony and having you miss your plane... Unable to vote or whatever. The point is, you need to be 100% certain that a felony is/has been committed before you have the right to detain them.

That being said, the the TSA violates the 4th Amendment... So I doubt it's a big deal to violate other parts of the Constitution.
 

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If he was actually committing a felony (walking around with the gun in plain sight, and trying to board a plane/get through security with it...) then it would be perfectly legal. The suspicion alone is not enough to detain a Senator/Congressman. They are not "normal" citizens, there are special laws in place for these people.

What's to stop your political enemies from detaining you of a "suspicious"/possible felony and having you miss your plane... Unable to vote or whatever. The point is, you need to be 100% certain that a felony is/has been committed before you have the right to detain them.

don't be so sure on that, i stopped Donald Rumsfeld from getting on his plane until he got rid of his knife ... dude was Sec. of Defense and i stopped his ass when i was a screener ;) .. of course rumsfeld wasnt an arrogant prick politician, laughed, gave it up and went on his way ;)
 

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don't be so sure on that, i stopped Donald Rumsfeld from getting on his plane until he got rid of his knife ... dude was Sec. of Defense and i stopped his ass when i was a screener ;) .. of course rumsfeld wasnt an arrogant prick politician, laughed, gave it up and went on his way ;)
Perhaps you missed the part about it being a protection for Congressmen and Senators? Last I checked Secretary of Defense was part of the executive branch, not the legislative branch of government.

I love how defending your constitutionally guaranteed rights is now considered "arrogant" by the people that have no problem bending over for government intrusion into their personal lives.
 

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I'm pretty sure everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so by your logic no congressman could ever be detained. And weapons don't need to be in plain sight for it to be illegal to carry them on a plane. The fact that the scanner saw something is reasonable doubt that he had a weapon and is enough to detain him.
 

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Every time i go through the scanners, i ask if they enjoyed my ball sack, sexy body, etc. :crackup:

So far i havent, "rubbed" anyone the wrong way.
 

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I'm pretty sure everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so by your logic no congressman could ever be detained. And weapons don't need to be in plain sight for it to be illegal to carry them on a plane. The fact that the scanner saw something is reasonable doubt that he had a weapon and is enough to detain him.
:+1:

Innocent people are detained for the purposes of a search all the time and are then let go if there is no further evidence in support of any offence.

That's how the criminal law works. That's how suspicions are investigated.

Arrest very rarely comes after conviction. People are arrested and then presented at court for a pleading diet or for their case to be heard. It's only after the court stage that they are convicted. Technically speaking, at the stage of arrest, they are innocent because they have not yet been found guilty by a court of law.
 

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^

What about the random searches, how are those justified? I was pulled aside and tested for bomb ingredient residue last summer.
 

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^

What about the random searches, how are those justified? I was pulled aside and tested for bomb ingredient residue last summer.
they are justified because its a true random sampling, thus allowing the additional screening with out all the cry babies bitching about profiling
 
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