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Discussion Starter #1
i am going to go to the track for the first time in a month or so and was wondering about a few things.

i have read a twist of the wrist 2 and something is confusing me. i will probley re read it but.

from the turn in point to the apex i have herd you should have a neutral throttle keeping weight off the front tire as you lean towards the apex. then get on the throttle after the apex.

on the other hand a lot of people seam to trail break towards the apex. i know this is harder to do but. if you are not on the throttle then you are engine breaking in to the turn putting some weight on to the front towards the apex. if you are engine breaking you are putting even more weight on the front right?

are the people who trail break also on the throttle? i would think that if you are on the breaks lightly and the throttle that this would be less weight transfer to the front than engine breaking.

any information on this would be great thanks.

i do not know if this is the right forum to put this on so please move if it is not.
 
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Staying on the throttle while trail braking is the proper way to do it. You should never be off the throttle to use engine braking to slow down on the track.
 

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i am going to go to the track for the first time in a month or so and was wondering about a few things.
First time? Don't worry about that yet. On your first track day you shoud focus more on getting the proper line around the track. Also, on your first track day you should be getting all of your braking done prior to turn-in. Trail braking is an advanced technique and is typically not addressed until more advanced classes. Just get out there, relax, and have fun. 1st track day is mostly about getting comfortable w/ the experience.
 

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First time? Don't worry about that yet. On your first track day you shoud focus more on getting the proper line around the track. Also, on your first track day you should be getting all of your braking done prior to turn-in. Trail braking is an advanced technique and is typically not addressed until more advanced classes. Just get out there, relax, and have fun. 1st track day is mostly about getting comfortable w/ the experience.
+1 don't get caught up trying to do everything you read in the book. some of the trackday orgs here actually have a class for the C groupers, or you can ask for a coach to help you out with your lines.
 
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Basically what "Turn in point to apex" is the point you begin your turn so that you apex the corner. how you go about making your corner is up to you and how your ride and what your pace will be. You could trail brake and roll on the throttle before the corner, but that's pretty advanced stuff for where you're at. just take your first trackday one corner at a time.
 

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i know at my first track day they had us stay in one gear and not even use the brakes. it was nice not having to think about doing too many things at once. as you progress you will pick things up fast.
 
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What they showed us at black hawk was the three lines. how sketchy the "dirty side" of the track was, and how the clean racing line felt. use the racing line, and you wont have to worry about turn in point, you'll just automatically turn at that point every time.

As Ox said, which they didn't expressly tell us to but rather highly recommended to us to do, is tool around the track in 3rd gear for the second session after we got the lines set.
 

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For your first day worry about getting the lines right, being smooth and being consistent. Everything else will fall into place after you do those 3 things right.

Also don't worry about going balls out and dump the bike like I did.
 

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The instructors will also show you the turn in points. they should me marked on the ground,
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i thank you all for your input and advice. i do not think i will worry about trail braking the first time out but am just curious as to how it works.

demented said that yes you are on the throttle and the brakes at the same time. why is this? is this so you do not have engine braking + brakes and not to much weight is on the front? or does this do something else?

what is the goal of the throttle while heading towards the apex and on the brakes? i am pretty sure that if you were not on the brakes then it is to transfer weight a little towards the rear. is this correct?

before i rode or knew anything about it and was reading a lot of stuff on the internet i came across counter steering and though it was the craziest thing. i am now always wondering what is going on. its very interesting to me.
 

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I dont know, Ive never heard of being on the brakes at the same time as the throttle.. seems to me like at best that will cancel each other out, at worst unsettle the chassis and cause you to go down.

The whole point of trail braking is allowing you to go into the corner just that little bit faster, and then scrub off that speed gradually as you reach the apex and increase lean angle. As soon as you are done braking, you should be at the apex where you then just barely crack the throttle open and settle the bike, and increase the throttle when you start exiting the corner.

But like the other guys said, you wont be trailbraking at your first track day. You'll get your braking done before you lean in to the corner, and that will be fine. Good luck!
 

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To put it simply...

Beginner: Gets braking done prior to to turn in point, maintains somewhat neutral throttle to Apex, begins rolling on as you exit/stand up the bike.

Experts: Brake past turn in point all the way to the apex, then throttle as soon as the brake comes off out of the turn. The experts are almost always on the gas, or on the brakes, they are rarely neutral throttle. (just the occaisional 180 degree constant radius turn maybe)

Next time you watch Moto GP look for that graphic where they show how much braking or throttle the riders are giving it. Brakes or throttle is almost always on. And they are rarely on tat the same time. Maybe Gary McCoy is the exception here...lol.
 
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