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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone make an "unlocked ECU" for a 2020 model that retains the stock settings but allows you to tune inside the 02 sensor EPA range? I am getting so much conflicting information on what works and what doesn't from so called "tuning experts", but I think it is because they are either trying to protect their learned knowledge, or they just don't know.
Having just got back into smaller displacement sport bikes, I find that there is a lot of room for tuning improvement, and little available information on the newer models, as most street riders are more content to just up the cc's to the 1000, rather than enjoy the full throttle effect of maintaining corner speeds, and concentrating on riding technique vs. shear HP. I just got the bike and feel like the 600 class has just been neglected for such a long time. They corner so much better, in my opinion than the liter bikes, and are far less likely to throw you on your *ss, when you push them through the twisties. Without bypassing all the emissions/EPA stuff, all the other goodies are just useless in my opinion. As a side note, I noticed that the 2021 model that they sent to the US ended up being a 2020 with a different paint scheme. All the pre-production test rides I saw last year, upgrading the fairing and electronics to something more like the 1000rr, never made it to the US production, and If Honda is going the same route as Yamaha, there won't be any more 600 inline 4 supersports within the next couple years, thanks to emissions regulations. R6 gone after 2020. Being replaced by a 700 parallel twin based on the MT-07.
 

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Which improvements do you mean? To be fair, you're talking about the 600cc that has historically been the most underpowered in it's class and doesn't give you the same bang for buck for engine tuning relative to competitors. And the 2021 version is the 2013 version with new plastics, which is largely the 07 model with small improvements. The 600 class has been dying quicker every year as the newer 1000cc machines are much easier to ride and have vastly better technology and development that the 600cc's simply didn't receive and probably would not benefit from. I'm surprised they've lasted this long but all the bikes I'm considering to replace my '08 are 1000cc so I'm part of the problem myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To each his own. I just asked a question, because I just like the feel and comfort of the Honda. I can ride all day on it. Every other sport bike, I'm good for an hour or two and its time for a break. Either the bars are too low, seat is too hard or pegs are too high and far back. Or the extra power combined with the discomfort zaps me. I am not a professional racer, but I know what a good tuner can do to the powerband of a bike. The new ones are almost all locked ECU's. You can piggyback tune them outside the 02 sensor band width but if you richen the bottom and the top you may mess up the middle. I may just get an auto tune with a PC5 and let the bike figure out the best compromise. I'd rather have a new ECU and dyno tune it.
BTW, ive had a Suzuki and Honda liter bike, a KTM 1290, and a Ducati 1198. Never enjoyed them all day long. This is my second cbr600rr and I have an Indian Challenger with 22,000 miles on it, and its 1-1/2 years old, so I like to ride.bought my new CBR and rode it home 300 miles. Stopped for gas.
 

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Info is mighty short on this last 7 +years.

Haven't seen much more OTF than a PC5 w/ a custom tune, or an autotune O2 sensor, but use search there are several recent flash ECU threads.

IDK how to say this properly....ECU is not OBD-2 system, there's no feedback from some of the engine monitoring systems particularly in regards to fueling.....

To get better on/off throttle control on my 09 I've got a PC5 and a dyno tune.

Changing "accelerator pump" setting to from "0" to value "65" on PC5 throttle pump control made for a much smoother on/off throttle around 7-8K rpm..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Info is mighty short on this last 7 +years.

Haven't seen much more OTF than a PC5 w/ a custom tune, or an autotune O2 sensor, but use search there are several recent flash ECU threads.

IDK how to say this properly....ECU is not OBD-2 system, there's no feedback from some of the engine monitoring systems particularly in regards to fueling.....

To get better on/off throttle control on my 09 I've got a PC5 and a dyno tune.

Changing "accelerator pump" setting to from "0" to value "65" on PC5 throttle pump control made for a much smoother on/off throttle around 7-8K rpm..
Excellent information. I have a PC5 coming on Wednesday, but have been trying to get a reputable tuner in my home town on Las Vegas. I feel a little guilty asking Dynojet to program my bike at their shop. They have done 3 of my previous bikes over the years, but I think they got fined from uncle Sam (now uncle Joe is even more scary with his squad behind him) and seems less anxious to developing tunes especially for older designs like ours that are being targeted, for what? I have no idea. You would think these bikes were deisel trucks with no cats. Ugh...I am very leary about bench tuning the stock ECU because you can't really change the tune without taking it out and sending it away and hope the tune works without your individual bike being dyno'd. And when you make mods...
 

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I followed the link and sure enough seems like the ECU won't add much in terms of power but can really let you set up the characteristics exactly to your preference. I went down the rabbit hole a bit and wound up here: 600RR Super Bike Build and at $2K for top end work then add labor and tuning to gain 13hp it's safe to say the law of diminishing returns applies unless you're racing in the 600 class and an aging liter bike is looking much better to trade dollars for power.
Search around on this theme;
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Search around on this theme;
I have an appointment set up for a dynotune in 3 weeks. Just using the PC5, along with the K&N Race filter, and block off plates. I am not trying to get more total power, just better power from midrange and less cut off when the throttle is chopped. Smooth and strong is what im after. Its as though Honda had to lean out or starve the engine within a certain rpm range to meet emmissions standards.
 

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Grayrat, I wanted same - smoother on/off throttle response in mid range of rpm.

Interested.

Please post results of your tuning quest?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Info is mighty short on this last 7 +years.

Haven't seen much more OTF than a PC5 w/ a custom tune, or an autotune O2 sensor, but use search there are several recent flash ECU threads.

IDK how to say this properly....ECU is not OBD-2 system, there's no feedback from some of the engine monitoring systems particularly in regards to fueling.....

To get better on/off throttle control on my 09 I've got a PC5 and a dyno tune.

Changing "accelerator pump" setting to from "0" to value "65" on PC5 throttle pump control made for a much smoother on/off throttle around 7-8K rpm..
How has Honda got away witvout OBD2 on the CBR. I looked it up and all the notes a out OBD2 were stating that all vehicle, which may actually be misrepresented as automobiles and trucks, shall have OBD2 or newer feedback as of the middle to late 90's. If i am interpriting your statement correctly, then the O2 sensors from the factory do NOT override a piggyback fueler within the preset limited and locked a/f ratios of most other late model bikes. Dynojet was very concerned going back to around 2015? when the started manufacturing their power vision tuners which actually changed the fqctory tune and could alter spped limiters, rev limiters, and any other features that restrict by disabling them. As long as they did not sell a product with a tune in it, it was up to the buyer to create a tune and take the responsibility of bypassing the EPA approved stock settings under the guise of "off road or racing use only".
 

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I'm kind of clueless about this, but FWIW.....

AFIK there's no factory exhaust O2 sensor on California spec bikes (and all USA)....at least the 07-12 models.

IIRC, no provision for it, not even a sealed port on the stock collector.

What about EU/AUS bikes....how would it work with no closed loop control from ECU?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I have 2- 02 sensors. But Dynojet and the tuning mechanic both said it is not necessary to add the autotune with 1 or 2 sensors if i am getting the bike dynotuned by this guy with a custom map for my specific bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I assume they are the 2 02 sensors. They sure look like it.-- Edit: I saw one when I took off my lower fairing to get off the oil filter. Now that it is back on, I cannot find it. It sure looked like the same thing I have on the other 2 bikes I have in the garage as well as my RZR. The whole exhaust is pretty hidden up there behind the frame and all the plastic, and the aluminum heat guards. I will let you know when I get it dyno'd and add the PV5 next month.
 
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