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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Texas bikers in deadly shootout at Waco restaurant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32776280

Wow...Scary stuff. This seems completely crazy to me here in the UK. Does this kind of stuff still raise eyebrows over there? Will it prompt a debate on guns and gun laws again?
 

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It'll make a buzz in the news for a few days and die out as soon as the shock value wears off. As far as gun control measures, good luck touching that subject in the land of the lone star without putting a target on your back. What it'll likely do is score some brownie points for some politicians looking to make their name.
 

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Texas bikers in deadly shootout at Waco restaurant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32776280

Wow...Scary stuff. This seems completely crazy to me here in the UK. Does this kind of stuff still raise eyebrows over there? Will it prompt a debate on guns and gun laws again?
Of course it raises eyebrows over here. You read it didn't you?
What debate are you talking about? The debate to take away guns from millions of people who don't shoot other people with their guns because some wackos (in waco) or gangs shoot each other up?

If anyone is intellectually honest about that debate they should also make a similar call for new alcohol laws. Saudi Arabia & Qatar outlaw alcohol. It's likely they don't have nearly the problem of alcoholics, drunk drivers, spousal & child abuse, etc, etc that kill & maim people as we do in the US, UK, & Euro due to abuse of that item? Then again you live in a free soceity right? You have the freedom to enjoy a pint responsibly don't you? Why should you and most of your countrymen give that up because a small minority of wackos abuse it?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Of course it raises eyebrows over here. You read it didn't you?
Yes I read it.

Please don't think I'm making some kind of moral judgement on gun ownership. I'm not. I'm merely raising a question on how much of an impact an incident like this will have on a country that values the right of its citizens to bear arms.

Of course the people close to the incident will be deeply shocked by this, but I'm wondering if the wider national public will be. From an outside point of view, it seems tragedies of this kind are not altogether uncommon relatively speaking.

Is there a tipping point where another atrocity is one too many and something has to change? Or are future incidents like this seen as an inevitable and unfortunate, but accepted byproduct of a largely law abiding majority?

I guess I'm wondering if this particular incident has provoked a stronger reaction relative to other similar multiple shootings or has it not affected public opinion much on the wider issue of guns?
 

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I don't think this should be a discussion about gun ownership and legality thereof as much as about lunatics that have more booze than blood running through their veins. Take away guns from ordinary citizens but criminals will still find a way to procure them. Those petty a$$holes that don't want to deal with the black market will find other ways to make others bleed. Just throwing laws at an issue won't magically solve crime. I mean, how many criminals follow laws in the first place?

There's probably going to be a tipping point eventually but I doubt that'll solve, at least in the capacity that officials hope for, the underlying issue of a small portion of people that can't function as normal human beings.
 

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Texas bikers in deadly shootout at Waco restaurant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32776280

Wow...Scary stuff. This seems completely crazy to me here in the UK. Does this kind of stuff still raise eyebrows over there? Will it prompt a debate on guns and gun laws again?

How many of guns used do you think were purchased legally by the individuals who used them in the incident?
 

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Yes I read it.

Please don't think I'm making some kind of moral judgement on gun ownership. I'm not. I'm merely raising a question on how much of an impact an incident like this will have on a country that values the right of its citizens to bear arms.

Of course the people close to the incident will be deeply shocked by this, but I'm wondering if the wider national public will be. From an outside point of view, it seems tragedies of this kind are not altogether uncommon relatively speaking.

Is there a tipping point where another atrocity is one too many and something has to change? Or are future incidents like this seen as an inevitable and unfortunate, but accepted byproduct of a largely law abiding majority?

I guess I'm wondering if this particular incident has provoked a stronger reaction relative to other similar multiple shootings or has it not affected public opinion much on the wider issue of guns?
Apologies if my response came back snappy. I couldn't read your question as sincere instead of the usual moralizing snark that flies around when these things happen. A thoughtful question deservers a thoughtful answer.
As far as I can see, these incidents don't affect public opinion any further than polarizing previously held positions. Those that have a morbid antipathy towards guns and the people who would own them take each incident as a cudgel to try and beat everyone over the head with it. Another example that it's just a nasty bad that should be forbidden to all. On the other side there's those that reflexively shout down (guilty here in this case) any notion of bringing up the subject of examining ways to mitigate unintended or malicious gun use. Both sides refuse to entertain any valid concerns of the other and it's come down to a cultural wedge issue where people have taken to judge and denigrate the other side beyond the issue. So no, daily gun crime or even the vivid mass crimes are tipping anyone's opinion. Sandy Hook was about the most heinous massacre imaginable and it did nothing but harden positions. Each side of the issue is treating it like a war to win instead of a problem that has solvable parts. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Guns are part of our culture. Just like freedom of speech, religion, & association. Most don't exercise that right in a way that it being limited would affect them but are reasonably defensive about it being curtailed on principal. Same with arms. Both sides of the argument, and face it, it's an argument not a debate have acted in bad faith. The gun control side has not met a restriction or ban it didn't like or agree with. They only back away from the more totalitarian notions they embrace when it becomes unpalatable to the law abiding majority that their "sensible" or "commonsense" gun control newspeak is a ruse. They then recalibrate & rebrand their approach but their tune stays comically on key. For that the gun rights side entertains not even the smallest concessions to reasonable debate. A camel's nose under the tent is a common metaphor for dealing with the gun control crowd. It's a shame. There are things that could be done smarter. Things could be improved to keep some guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them. Not all by a long shot but something that makes an effort that at least the whole scheme of responsibility isn't a joke. Things could also be done to make sure that if you are a responsible law abiding person that you will not be harassed or limited in your ability to own the firearms of your choice and ability to use them responsibly. That's my piece on the piece.
 

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I don't want to give mine up, but...I'm willing to register them. I'm willing to be accountable for what I have, and how i use them. Illegal possession needs to be painfully illegal.
 

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The main debate Ive been seeing now on social medias has almost nothing to do with guns. What I keep seeing is people talking about how the cops treated these white gang members. By pictures they treated them seemingly far more respectfully than they would had they been black. From what Ive seen this isnt a gun debate its another race debate.
 

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The main debate Ive been seeing now on social medias has almost nothing to do with guns. What I keep seeing is people talking about how the cops treated these white gang members. By pictures they treated them seemingly far more respectfully than they would had they been black. From what Ive seen this isnt a gun debate its another race debate.
It wasn't here until you brought it up.
 

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The main debate Ive been seeing now on social medias has almost nothing to do with guns. What I keep seeing is people talking about how the cops treated these white gang members. By pictures they treated them seemingly far more respectfully than they would had they been black. From what Ive seen this isnt a gun debate its another race debate.
Bandidos are not white! The police can't just run in there and kick the crap out of everyone when there are 170+ bikers and far less police officers.
 

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I don't want to give mine up, but...I'm willing to register them. I'm willing to be accountable for what I have, and how i use them. Illegal possession needs to be painfully illegal.
Completely agree.

I'm not a big gun guy but I grew up with them and have a few now mostly for blowing holes in paper once year or so. As a law abiding citizen I have zero problem with letting anyone who should know I have them, where and how I got them and when and how I choose to use it. If you can't (or won't) them maybe you need to question why you have them in the first place or what you plan to do with them.

Some people bitch about waiting periods, registration, etc. which is another thing I have zero trouble with. If you NEED a gun RIGHT NOW and can't wait say 7 days for a background check you might want to start planning things better in your life all around. And if you're not supposed to have one and are found with one, as stated it needs to be made VERY clear to that person they broke the law.

This whole thing in Waco is nothing but a bunch of wannabe badass children who got into a fight over parking. Really? Someone's life is worth a parking spot. Grow up and start acting like an adult.

Mike
 

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I don't want to give mine up, but...I'm willing to register them. I'm willing to be accountable for what I have, and how i use them. Illegal possession needs to be painfully illegal.
Go ahead, register them. Then, when they do decide to make them illegal, they'll know who's door to knock on for collection.
 

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Completely agree.

This whole thing in Waco is nothing but a bunch of wannabe badass children who got into a fight over parking. Really? Someone's life is worth a parking spot. Grow up and start acting like an adult.

Mike
Not exactly. What happened in Waco is because the Cossacks are trying to align with the HA in Texas and the Bandidos control Texas. Its about $$$$ and respect.
 

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Not exactly. What happened in Waco is because the Cossacks are trying to align with the HA in Texas and the Bandidos control Texas. Its about $$$$ and respect.
Interesting. I think they are in negative numbers in the respect category right now. The only respect going on in their lives is stand & respect the judge.

What a bunch of clowns. Social retards. :retard:
 

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Go ahead, register them. Then, when they do decide to make them illegal, they'll know who's door to knock on for collection.
If they become illegal, then why would I have them? I'm not going to take some macho stance about prying them from my cold dead fingers. This is not the 1700's.
 

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I was actually there - driving back from Hallett (to Austin) and stopped in Waco for dinner at a Whataburger. 4 State Cops in heavy-ish gear (not riot gear, but not standard stuff either) getting a burger. When I drove away, I skirted a huge (miles) area quarantined off by the cops. I initially assumed it was disaster recovery exercise - wrong.

I don't think this is about guns. It's more about organized crime. Tensions among gangs (won't mention names - yes, I'm that paranoid) are rising in this area, which wasn't helped by a cop organization entering the area (without asking local gang's permission - interesting question as to whether the cop bike gang should have to ask for permission).

There's also a conspiracy theory that this was organized by the cops. It would be interesting to know how many of the shots were from police issued weapons and how many from the gang's guns (legal or otherwise). "Proof" of this is the recent entry of the cop gang, and the quick reaction of the cops (with some claiming there were swat teams in the area before anything happened).

In any event, it seems the real debate should be around biker gangs and organized crime. These guys are not social retards, they are involved in business. Things got heated (maybe turf war?) and violence erupted.

Or maybe this should be about middle age guys wearing 50's style leathers...
 
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