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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Some info from V4, I suspect CBR600RR is similar.


I've rebuilt many Porsche engines Alusil blocks or Nikasil-coated cylinders. Dirt-bikes too. Plateau-honing stage is key.

Hmmm, yea I found this company also... So the plot thickens...

Perfect 😑
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With alloy bores, there's roughly 2 approaches:

1. special surface prep: Alusil etching to expose silicon crystals or similar with Honda MMC bores. Along with using iron-coated pistons for toughness along with chrome rings. This was standard back in '80-90s. But very process intensive as shown in EngineBuilderMag link. But still cheaper than Nikasil back then due to patented process by Mahle.

2. modern technique: Nikasil/Nicom coated bores, regular piston & rings, no special prep needed. Kawasaki does on their alloy-bore engines and I suspect Honda has adopted that now even with their MMC cylinder liners.

Only catch now is determining piston clearances. Are factory pistons hypo or hyper-eutectic? Forged or cast? That's 4 possible combinations, which determines their expansion-rates, and thus clearances. This also includes those AHL pistons, most definitely not hyper-eutectic or forged, so clearances should be on larger end of range to allow for expansion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Only catch now is determining piston clearances. Are factory pistons hypo or hyper-eutectic? Forged or cast? That's 4 possible combinations, which determines their expansion-rates, and thus clearances. This also includes those AHL pistons, most definitely not hyper-eutectic or forged, so clearances should be on larger end of range to allow for expansion.
Hmmm, yeah that all sounds like a fun science experiment... But I'm not going that deep...

Since punching the block .5 over is no longer a simple, cheap or locally available service...

I'm pretty sure I'm just going to get a used engine case off the evil-bay with good cylinders... And throw in a used piston with new gaskets and call it good enough 🤷


Perhaps this one will do 🤔
 

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Wow, that's even cheaper than one factory piston!! :eek:

And great deal as most breakers have guarantee on stuff they pull. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Just a quick update...

I did place an ebay order for 1 used engine case (I found one that looked good for $150)🤞& 1 used Piston for $30...

so I'm in a holding pattern at least until I get the case... But in the mean time & while it's just a frame on wheels, I might go through some of the other systems & I'll post anything of interest I find.

Does anyone who has successfully split & reassembled a case before have any useful tips or advice?
 

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Maybe I missed it but was the bike stock or did it have fuel management? Your pump setup was likely working fine but I'm wondering still how one piston melted.

For additional maintenance you can lube the bearings like swing arm, shock linkage, and the steering head. Check your wheel bearings, check brake lines, check air filter. I'm not sure about 03-04 but 05-06 right hand controls had an issue in the solder and the telltale sign was headlights not turning on with ignition. I opened my controls and added a dab of solder and problem solved. Also not sure about 03-04 but 05-06 has a harness ground plug (yellow) that can burn and corrode causing electrical issues.
 

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Does anyone who has successfully split & reassembled a case before have any useful tips or advice?
I did couple 600RR engines for racing many years ago, sorry no pics. On V engines, they used bolts with spiral grooves cut into them for case halves. Partly weight-savings I suspect and partly for more stretch at any given torque. Be sure to use torque-wrench!!! It is actually possible to distort shape of alloy block with improper torque of steel bolts. One guy brought in seized engine to my shoppe and asked for rebuild. Turned out someone had torqued case halves together so tight, it had pinched bearings into crank and locked it from spinning!!! :eek: Also torque-values in manual are for bolts with light machine-oil on them. Would be impossible to get these engine-bolts perfectly clean without any oil on them. They come covered with anti-friction coating from factory. Some have thread-locker, add drop of blue Loctite to those.

Beam-style analogue torque-wrench preferred over clicker types. They respond to "torque creep" phenomenon, where once your reach desired torque, it actually decreases and wrench continues for another 10-20 degrees before target torque is achieved. This occurs on highest-torque fasteners such as case bolts and head bolts. This is due to friction between threads and is false torque, bolt hasn't stretched to proper tension & length yet. A clicker-type wrench ends up under-tightening these bolts because they click at initial torque-setting, but don't account for the creep.

On most critical bolts, such as rod-cap bolts, there is follow-up measurement of final bolt-length using micrometer to verify bolt has proper tension & stretch. Don't re-use rod bolts.

 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
. Be sure to use torque-wrench!!
Will do 👌

Beam-style analogue torque-wrench preferred over clicker types.
Yeah I think I got one of those laying around that I never use 👍
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Would be impossible to get these engine-bolts perfectly clean without any oil on them
How about with Brake cleaner? J/k😜
I did see in the service manual where it specified what bolt gets what lube or thread locker... I plan to follow it to a T... But I do wish it had better pics... Luckily there is that YouTube playlist to help with visuals 🙏


Don't re-use rod bolts.
🤔 I was wondering about those... Are you sure they can't be re-used? They look perfectly fine to me?...

How about if I just re-use them the one time? 😃🤷 Lol...

Speaking of... I got my new (used) piston in the mail already, and the case ETA window is Jan 12th - 17th...
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Not sure what the numbers on the back mean... They are different but everything else is the same.

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Look at how much more of that coating is on the new piston skirt on the left compare to my old 80k mile piston on the right...
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And the new one came with a green color code on the bearings versus yellow on the old one... Obviously I'm just going to swap the new piston over to the old rod...
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Here is something I found during teardown that I forgot to mention...

I don't know what it was rubbing on now that it's all apart, but if it was something metal, it definitely would have been bad for spark...

However this wasn't my offending cylinder, so I don't think it was grounding out 🤷 idk
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Will do 👌

🤔 I was wondering about those... Are you sure they can't be re-used? They look perfectly fine to me?...

How about if I just re-use them the one time? 😃🤷 Lol....
heh, heh... While not torque-to-yield bolts, they do tighten them just under their plastic limit. Added stress from revs and they'll definitely be over on 2nd use. :p

Not sure what the numbers on the back mean... They are different but everything else is the same.
Compare numbers to other pistons in your block.

Here is something I found during teardown that I forgot to mention...

I don't know what it was rubbing on now that it's all apart, but if it was something metal, it definitely would have been bad for spark...

However this wasn't my offending cylinder, so I don't think it was grounding out 🤷 idk
Yeah, that goes to #1 ignition coil. However, all coils share common power-wire, so if it was shorting, it would've hurt them all.
 
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I'm interested, please create that thread
Posted in the General Section. (y)
 

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Does anyone who has successfully split & reassembled a case before have any useful tips or advice?
I've just put one back together. Your new upper case half contains the upper half of your crankshaft bearings. You will need to be super careful about the bearing clearances. Plastiguage will be essential. There is a whole chart of different bearing colors\clearances in the service manual.
It's already been said, but don't reuse your rod cap bolts. Head bolts and crankcase bolts are good to reuse. (up to 6 times, as per the HRC setup manual)
Unfortunately, it's my understanding that Honda no longer sells a 'gasket set', at least in Canada. You can still buy the individual gaskets, but not the whole engine kit. In my experience, the aftermarket complete kits are junk. The head gasket and valve cover gasket fit, but that was it. Almost none of the o-rings fit. It was an Athena kit. It's painful, but I would go through the online parts microfiche and individually order the gaskets and o-rings that you need. You're changing the valve seals since you're in there, right ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
You will need to be super careful about the bearing clearances. Plastiguage will be essential.
I am kinda wondering how well this crank and bearings would drop into a new case... I do plan to use plastiguage and check them 👌

Thanks for the tip about the gasket kits 🙏
You're changing the valve seals since you're in there, right ?
Meh, It was running great and not smoking before I burnt the piston...

I just hope all 4 holes in the new case are at least as good as the 3 good holes in my current case 🤞

This pic, plus the price compare to cases with scored cylinders, plus the fact that nothing about scoring was mentioned in the description is all I have to go off... 🤷
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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Update: the new case should have been here on the 18th...

but I live in San Joaquin county, CA and my whole neighborhood flooded and was "mandatory evacuated" 🙄 on the 17th

I didn't leave but the whole neighborhood was without power all week until yesterday...

I have a generator and roughed it... but I was only 1 of 7 out of like 200 ish people who didn't leave...

most of them only left because they do whatever they are told 😷🐑💉 and thought they had to...but regretted it once they found out they didn't have to and they weren't allowing them to come back until yesterday 🤦

The house is older with a raised subfloor so it stayed dry inside but I had 17" of water all around

All the cars in the neighborhood got water in them...

But my bare motorcycle frame was fine lol .. 😃

The bare engine was on the floor of the slab on grade detached garage so it got wet but it just drained right back out of the open oil pan. 😆

Unfortunately the people who work for UPS lack any common sense whatsoever...

so when the morons couldn't deliver the package to my flooded neighborhood, they just decided I probably didn't want it anymore and sent it all the way back across the country to New York 🤬

its out for delivery back to the sender today

FML
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Glad you made it through the atmospheric river of death of 2023! Aka seasonal flooding...🙄
Umm okay... I'm not sure what you meant by your comment... Or the eye roll... Or what kind of climate you reside in...

But this was a LOT more than regular seasonal flooding...

Does FEMA declare your county a national emergency every season?

Is everyone "mandatory evacuated" from their homes every season?

Do all the cars in your neighborhood sustain flood damage every season?
 
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