[ajf]

The question is, can you rely on ABS if you need to stop hard after entering a blind corner at 6 -7 tenths? If so, you can have a lot more fun in blind corners than if you tip-toe into them at 4 -5 tenths.

I'm pretty sure it works for me. Since getting the CBR I've increased my entry speed into blind corners by 10 - 15 mph and I routinely brake hard when they don't go where I thought they would. I think the ABS lets me brake much harder at moderate lean than I ever would have dared on any previous bike.

It can be hard to be certain you're activating ABS on these bikes, especially when you're cornering, so I might be deluding myself and maybe I could have braked just as hard on my previous, non-ABS bikes. So I'm wondering if anyone else has come to the same or the opposite conclusion from actually trying it. (There's no way to stop theoreticians and safety nannies from posting, but don't expect me to care about your comments.)

And, yeah, I agree that at race-track corner speeds (9 to 10 tenths) it's unlikely ABS will save you if grab too much brake. There's not enough residual traction for it to work with, so I expect the wheel will slide sideways before the ABS thinks it is sliding forwards enough to intervene.

 

[buechelr]

Just FYI you shouldnt be breaking in the corner. I would highly recommend scouting a corner you intend to hit with any speed if you cant see all the way through it. You should be slowed down to corner speed before you enter and then throttle through the corner. Using power through the corner will set you suspension and let you take the corner even tighter if need be while breaking does the exact opposite. Not to mention breaking in a corner, especially hard enough to activate your ABS, is just asking for a low side.

 

[tenjin]

DO NOT rely on your abs to save your ass

its only there to help you not wreck

your tires are STILL only capable of so much grip, and if you are using too much, you will still wreck

 

[backinthesaddleagain]

I have wondered this myself re braking with ABS. I think it allows me to grab more brake than I would normally PRIOR to turn in. I have tried to not trail brake much any more, but still do in some situations.

 

[michaelwood]

Don't push the limits of the stock ABS system in corners. Although honda did a great job, and got it 99% perfect. It needs to be tuned to the tires on the bike. Different profiles of tires have different speed ratio's at different lean angles than the stock tires. The ABS computer interprets this as slip, or grip. It then can over or under brake a tire if it is measurably different in profile than a stock tire.

There are other ABS computers that are tunable to each tire profile out there. Traction control systems are like this too. If you want top notch performance it has to be tuned to each tire.

It might still work at %70 with non OEM tires, but as others said don't rely on it

 

[ajf]

Different profiles of tires have different speed ratio's at different lean angles than the stock tires. The ABS computer interprets this as slip, or grip. It then can over or under brake a tire if it is measurably different in profile than a stock tire.
/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip. My tires are stock, and with this information that's all I will use.

 

[Bimmerx2]

Personally I do not even think about ABS when riding. ABS only does anything at maximum breaking. If I'm trying to max out my braking I try to manually hit the threshold (where skidding starts) and if ABS kicks in it means I overshot the mark a bit. For me it's more of a safety net for when I get sloppy. I can count on one hand the number of times I've activated the ABS on my BMW in 36k miles and I've ridden it pretty hard.

Does it help in a corner at lean? Probably a little bit but unless you practice a lot and find that limit for every corner you ride I don't think you can change anything to take advantage of that tiny extra cushion. I'm ignoring the times where it comes on if you hit a slick spot and have no traction for braking.

I agree that trail breaking on the street is unwise because you have very little control over the conditions - like road traction, junk in the way, etc. You also are closer to "the limit" if you're trail braking and on the street it's just not smart to give up that extra control for the little payback in speed. On the track it's different because you will hit the same corner over and over and will know how much trail braking you can get away with.

 

[Flatliner]

No ABS>ABS

Not a chance on the street.

The non abs is lighter, but I've ridden both bikes personally, and it works very well.

 

[midgear]

Braking in a corner causes any vehicle to go straight and should NOT be done. Ever.

 

[TheX]

Love the ABS and look forward to having it on future bikes. I brake all the way to the apex of the turn. If you brake only till you start to turn you lose valuable speed. Coasting is losing. Brake to the apex and throttle out.

 

[tenjin]

No ABS>ABS

why would you say that?

what do you feel the negatives are of abs that makes non abs better?

 

[MXRider]

Braking in a corner causes any vehicle to go straight and should NOT be done. Ever.

That is wrong completely ^^

 

[midgear]

That is wrong completely ^^

It works but it does straighten the bike. Try it. lol jk
BTW I got that from racers.

 

[tenjin]

It works but it does straighten the bike. Try it. lol jk
BTW I got that from racers.

ever heard of trail braking?

 

[michaelwood]

ever heard of trail braking?

No he is right in a sense. He wasn't talking about trail braking:

Braking in a corner causes any vehicle to go straight and should NOT be done. Ever.

Hitting the brakes mid corner DOES cause the bike to run wide, at least initially untill the bike slows down. (Just read Kieth Code's "A Twist of the Wrist")

Trail braking is different. Since you've been braking from before the bike was leaned over, you've used braking power to compress the front forks, altering the geometry,(less rake & trail) and depending on setup this many times can make the bike easier to turn in.

Trail braking, and braking mid corner are two different things entirely.

 

[TheX]

ever heard of trail braking?

Oh hell yeah...

I brake all the way to the apex of the turn. If you brake only till you start to turn you lose valuable speed. Coasting is losing. Brake to the apex and throttle out.

 

[midgear]

ever heard of trail braking?

Not the term, but since I now heard explanations yes I have.

 

[buechelr]

I just wanna make sure we are all on the same page here. The OP was asking about extremely aggressive breaking in the middle of a blind corner that he had never ridden before. Racing techniques aside, I think we all can agree that riding on public roads, on a brand new blind corner, should be done cautiously and at least at somewhat legal speeds. Relying on ABS to save your ass in that situation is just foolish.

 

[Tacmedic]

For God's sake man. Take an advanced riding course before you kill yourself or someone else. I am not even going to begin to address what is wrong with this thread. Wow...

 

[ajf]

Hitting the brakes mid corner DOES cause the bike to run wide, at least initially untill the bike slows down. (Just read Kieth Code's "A Twist of the Wrist")

Trail braking, and braking mid corner are two different things entirely.

Yeah, I'm talking about hitting the brakes hard while in mid-corner at moderate lean. It does cause the bike to lift up a bit, and it will run wide if you do nothing. If you're ready for it, compensating to stay on the same line is easy. And, the CBR lifts up much less than my previous SV650S or my current FJR. It's a non-issue once you've dealt with it a few times.

There seem to be very few people on the board who both do this and are willing to post their comments. The thread is deteriorating into a discussion of the merits of braking in mid-corner. So I'll add my two cents.

Putting aside the issue of maximizing fun in the twisties, there is another good reason to learn to do this. It is not hard to imagine emergency situations where stopping in mid-blind corner is your only option. If you are unwilling to brake hard while leaned over, you have only one course of action: Lift the bike up, brake hard upright and hope you stop before you run out of road. That means you need to enter every blind corner slowly enough to do this at any point before you can see through the whole corner.

Some people ride slow enough all the time to do this. What about those who run corners hard when they can see all the way through them? Do they slow down enough to be safe in blind corners? I think very few do. So, I think the majority of people who enjoy running twisties hard and subscribe to the "never brake in midcorner" idea are fooling themselves about how safe their riding really is.

Of course, you have to balance the risk of not being able or willing to brake hard in mid-corner against the risks you take while learning how to do it. I think the fabulous ABS on our Hondas has largely eliminated the risk of learning to do it, unless you want it to help you at 8-tenths or faster. But, if like me you reserve those speeds for perfect conditions on corners you've just run at lower speed, this isn't much of a limitation.