[chickenpoodle]

why do we knee drag, and what advantages does it REALLY offer?

yes, asking this question is opening a can worms almost as big as when someone asks "how does a motorcycle steer?"

we all know theres many reasons why we do this.
everything ranging from the lowered center of gravity talk, to the wind resistence offered from the exposed bodypart.

is there any disadvantages?

this was brought up in a little conversation with a friend, and i decided it was a good idea to just throw it up here to see what everyone thinks.

 

[cvlighthouse]

A feeler guage that lets you know when your tire is going to slide out from under you?

 

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A lot of it has to do with comfort. When I started dragging I would keep it planted cause it was "cool" at first. Now I use it as a guage when entering corners.

In long, full lean turns, I like to keep my slider floating on the pavement, touching, but not pushing it down, so if my friend end tucks, I can save it by lifting up with my knee.........unfortunately it didnt work yesterday in turn 9 at 130mph, and I washed the front :-\ lol

On a 125 or 250 it can actually slow you down in turns, and unless you are at full lean, it really has no advantage. If you have your knee full out and its not touching, you've got a lot of lean left. If you have your knee tucked in the tank, and its sliding......dont lean anymore :lol2:

Its an idividual thing I guess...

 

[JetBlast10]

chicks dig it and the kids applaud.


and that whole lean indicator push the bike back up thing to but mostly for the chicks and the kids.

 

[Aussie600RRPilot]

dropping a knee has the advantages of, lean indicator, lowered centre of gravity, keeps the bike more upright hence the suspension works better, drag, it can aid in confidence guys who rode dirt before going to road will agree it becomes second nature to have your inside leg out, it looks kool.
the disadvantage is if it isn't natural ie you spend all your concentration on dangling your knee out, your actually going to go round the corner slower and less smooth as you keep pushing down trying to get your knee to touch

 

[Blade-Runner]

If I didn't put my knee down I would keep on leaning and end up low siding.

 

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Putting your knee down has nothing to do with the center of gravity. People say this a lot because they think its the knee part that helps, where in fact its the hanging off that helps, or the position of your body. Your knee sliding on the ground does nothing to effect the center of gravity on the bike, or the suspension....unless you try to take all the weight of your body off the bike and put it on your knee, which would be really funny :roll:

 

[Blade-Runner]

Also by hang off the bike doesn't have to learn over as much.

 

[phaderlanx]

If I didn't put my knee down I would keep on leaning and end up low siding.

Wich is exactly what i did. Ive always been more comfortable tucking my knee near the tank when i was all the way leaned over. Big mistake. The combination of center of gravity and lean angle and body not hanging off enough- ehhhh at least i didnt fall to far.... :mrgreen:

 

[Nonphixion]

chicks dig it and the kids applaud.


and that whole lean indicator push the bike back up thing to but mostly for the chicks and the kids.

of course... the chicks and the kids

 

[havoc]

Putting your knee down has nothing to do with the center of gravity. People say this a lot because they think its the knee part that helps, where in fact its the hanging off that helps, or the position of your body. Your knee sliding on the ground does nothing to effect the center of gravity on the bike, or the suspension....unless you try to take all the weight of your body off the bike and put it on your knee, which would be really funny :roll:

Thats why I love working out knees. I usually do them by themselves on Saturdays. I got like two little biceps on my kneecap.

Damn I'm full of crap hahahah

 

[jong]

i think every body is correct but it all comes to being cool :twisted: , dragging your knee is the indication how far your ability in terms of riding a motorcycle and i think the only disadvantage in knee dragging for me is worn out knee puck....( practice on a track not on the street be safe ;-)

 

[KrazyGook]

When I first started riding fast enough to drag my knee I would put some pressure on my pucks and they would wear down so fast. Now I just do a light touch and hover the puck above the ground. Saves a lot of money. Pucks get expensive real fast if you ride a lot.

 

[appex_wraith]

i think every body is correct but it all comes to being cool :twisted: , dragging your knee is the indication how far your ability in terms of riding a motorcycle and i think the only disadvantage in knee dragging for me is worn out knee puck....( practice on a track not on the street be safe ;-)

yeah...what he said :twisted:

 

[formergixxer]

I like the way kenny roberts said it, the knee was basically so you can actually control your weight in one place and the bike itself, allowing you to steer the bike with the rear wheel and be confident in it.

 

[96SNAKE03RR]

the disadvantage is if it isn't natural ie you spend all your concentration on dangling your knee out, your actually going to go round the corner slower and less smooth as you keep pushing down trying to get your knee to touch

That's a good point. Once it becomes second nature, you just do it without realizing it and you can then concentrate on your lines and being as fast as you can be. :smile:

 

[quantumfield]

Putting your knee down has nothing to do with the center of gravity. People say this a lot because they think its the knee part that helps, where in fact its the hanging off that helps, or the position of your body. Your knee sliding on the ground does nothing to effect the center of gravity on the bike, or the suspension....unless you try to take all the weight of your body off the bike and put it on your knee, which would be really funny :roll:

When starting on the track, if people have it in mind to get a knee down, they certainly come off the bike more...in an effort to get their knee down. As a result, they learn how to position thier bodies to the inside of the turn and off the bike so that the center of gravity is shifted to the inside of the turn and hence they can carry more corner speed. Although the knee has virtually no effect on the center of gravity (unless of course you have a 100lb knee), its is more of a false target which helps one to learn body position. After a people get the measure of getting of the bike, the knee simply functions as "ruler" which measures your distance from the ground (ie. you really don't want to look down). For example, if you are on street tires and feel one side of your knee up against the fairing and the other side of your knee on the track...hold on...cause you goin' for a bad ride.

 

[ragamuffin]

I like the way kenny roberts said it, the knee was basically so you can actually control your weight in one place and the bike itself, allowing you to steer the bike with the rear wheel and be confident in it.

that's right! this is the ORIGINAL reason for knee-dragging. it was a practice roberts adapted from dirt--and the knee actually supported weight! it wasn't just a feeler or a guage. while having your knee down far enough to drag probably does have some effect on composite lean angle (thereby lessening the degree of lean angle needed), it's probably residual and as such is not the primary reason for doing it. the real reason is it's part of a steering mechanism as stated above.

it's the confusion of these things that screws up most riders. probably the more important concept to understand and implement is the adjustment of composite cg, i.e., getting the weight off the bike. but most think that it's the damn knee that's so important, and so they make huge personal satisfaction investments in getting that knee down. since, of course, it's easier to get the knee down by hanging off the bike, these "knee" junkies start hanging off. and then this is where you start seeing the puke ugly form that a lot of amateurs (and even some pros) sport: torso upright and shoulders squared perfectly across the center of the tank, back twisting around like they're trying to go ass forward, butt hanging off the bike, and THE KNEE DOWN! YAY! ...not.

Lee Parks has a ton of diagrams of this problem point in his book Total Control. the next time you're thinking you want to hang off the bike, remember, it's not the knee. it's all about weight distribution, reduction of lean angle, and traction management. you invite all kinds of problems if you have the kind of form described above.

the next time you watch a pro race check out where those guys' torsos are. look at where the inside shoulder is positioned/pointed. look at the outside arm. almost without exception, those guys' body weight is greatly shifted inside, butts and shoulders are in-line, and outside arms are stretched across the tank--elbows even resting on the tank.

 

[Aussie600RRPilot]

Putting your knee down has nothing to do with the center of gravity. People say this a lot because they think its the knee part that helps, where in fact its the hanging off that helps, or the position of your body. Your knee sliding on the ground does nothing to effect the center of gravity on the bike, or the suspension....unless you try to take all the weight of your body off the bike and put it on your knee, which would be really funny :roll:

sorry i took it for granted that getting ur knee down involved moving off the seat / body positioning

 

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I like the way kenny roberts said it, the knee was basically so you can actually control your weight in one place and the bike itself, allowing you to steer the bike with the rear wheel and be confident in it.

True, but lets look at reality for a moment. None of us can ride like kenny, and I highly doubt any of us have used our knee to control our weight in one place so we could steer with the rear wheel....I wish I was there, but I'm not there yet.....

It's funny that knee dragging is such a huge thing in the beginning that you strive to understand or whatever, but after a while you just do it, and whatever it does for you is just what it does, lol