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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Electric Cars

If this is for the environment, You will be running your car on coal instead of gas. That doesn't sound too efficient.

Also, with the US Electric Grid already maxxed out in some areas. Where are we going to get the electricity to run these things.

Also, Batteries contain lithium or lead, Heavy metal pollutants.

I am on NYSEG, the most expensive electricity in the country at 15 cents/KWHr, gas would be cheaper.

Would any of you actually buy one?? I personally like the sound of a revving internal combustion engine, not the whine of an electric golf cart motor.

What's your opinions on these government mandates?


http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-G...54P6VJ20090526

DETROIT (Reuters) - U.S. automaker Chrysler LLC said on Tuesday it submitted proposals totaling $448 million to the U.S. Department of Energy to research and develop electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid models.

Chrysler and its "partners," plus the Department of Energy, would pay $224 million each should the proposals be approved and would include an investment of up to $83 million to build a new technology and manufacturing center in Michigan to help develop and assemble these vehicles. That complex should be functional by 2010 and produce more than 20,000 vehicles a year, Chrysler said.

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 11:00 AM
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running on coals are actually a little cleaner than gas, but not much. and like you said. before we can reps the benifit of the electric car, the power grid must be upgraded to be more efficent. personally I would get a volt, yet I havent learn to trust anything from chrysler yet. they are known to make unreliable cars. since all electronic systems suffers the same faite which unlike a mechinical system, you cannot perform prevententivtive maintance on the system in hoping prolonging the service life.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wu_dot_com View Post
since all electronic systems suffers the same faite which unlike a mechinical system, you cannot perform prevententivtive maintance on the system in hoping prolonging the service life.
Even the Batteries. They will be toast in 3-5 years and won't be cheap to replace, somewhere in the neighborhood of $5K. How will that save you money.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by WherzRoony View Post
If this is for the environment, You will be running your car on coal instead of gas. That doesn't sound too efficient.

Also, with the US Electric Grid already maxxed out in some areas. Where are we going to get the electricity to run these things.

Also, Batteries contain lithium or lead, Heavy metal pollutants.

I am on NYSEG, the most expensive electricity in the country at 15 cents/KWHr, gas would be cheaper.

Would any of you actually buy one?? I personally like the sound of a revving internal combustion engine, not the whine of an electric golf cart motor.
Everyone keeps making the coal vs gas argument but it's false. 1 coal plant producing electricity for 10000 cars pollutes far less, and makes it MUCH easier to control/regulate the pollution levels. It's also much easier to "swap" out that shitty coal plant for something else when the time comes.

Yes, the electric grid is maxed out in certain areas... but it can be upgraded, and for the sake of the future should be upgraded. The US really needs to stop their anti-nuclear stances as there's nothing that comes even close to being as efficient/effective as nuclear energy. When done properly (see France...) it is extremely safe and the by products are almost non existent. This whole solar/wind kick is great, but something needs to be put in place for base load requirements... wind/solar are far too unreliable for that.

Batteries being put into these cars are being designed to be operational for 10 years or so. A) How many people keep their cars that long? B) In 10 years it will cost MUCH less and you'll get way more battery for your buck. Additionally, almost all batteries can be recycled... so it's no different than throwing out that used motor oil, someone has to pick it up and look after it.

As for cost, when was the last time something new/cutting edge was cheaper than status quo? The estimated cost for charging up the Chevy Volt will be less than $2 pretty much anywhere in the US, and that $2 should get you ~40 miles. I don't know about you but that 40 miles would be much cheaper for me on electricity than gas (ignoring the costs of the vehicle.)


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Originally Posted by wu_dot_com View Post
since all electronic systems suffers the same faite which unlike a mechinical system, you cannot perform prevententivtive maintance on the system in hoping prolonging the service life.
That right there is the KEY benefit to electric vehicles... almost nothing to replace, almost nothing to go wrong. When it does go wrong it should be relatively inexpensive to fix. No oil changes... an almost maintenance free car!


I love the idea of electric cars, but I think that it's being force fed to people... I don't think there's as much "demand" as people think. But we really need to start somewhere as being self reliant would be HUGE byproduct of moving to electric vehicles. Anyone/everyone can produce their own electricity in their back yard if they wanted... same can't be said for fossil fuels.

I would seriously consider buying something like the volt so long as the price isn't that far off from a comparable ICE vehicle.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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I love the idea of electric cars, but I think that it's being force fed to people... I don't think there's as much "demand" as people think. But we really need to start somewhere as being self reliant would be HUGE byproduct of moving to electric vehicles. Anyone/everyone can produce their own electricity in their back yard if they wanted... same can't be said for fossil fuels.
Obama WILL fix the demand issue. It will be a $6.00 per gallon gasoline tax, you can count on it..... So much for no tax increases if you make less than 200K

And plus one to it being forced down everyone's throats

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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I like this idea for over the road rigs and personal pick-up trucks, since we are being forced in this direction, to copy the diesel locomotive concept. A petrol fired generator to power the electric motion motors. But I'd really rather stick with my 5.9L Cummins diesel dodge.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 08:37 AM
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The electric plant down the state from me, I was told, burns 1 rail car of coal, every 20 minuets, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week... I don't see how that can be cleaner than using gas for a car? I'm just going off my common knowledge assumptions, without any kind of research what so ever.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 04:28 PM
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The electric plant down the state from me, I was told, burns 1 rail car of coal, every 20 minuets, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week... I don't see how that can be cleaner than using gas for a car? I'm just going off my common knowledge assumptions, without any kind of research what so ever.
Is it cleaner than 10000 SULEV rated vehicles... no. But does it have the ability to be cleaner than 10000 Lincoln Navigator/Chevy tahoes... yes.

There's MUCH more to consider about electric vehicles than just their environmental impacts. How valuable is being self sustainable? Buy a small 2 - 5k windmill/solar panels and make your own car fuel. The true beauty behind the electric platform is its simplicity (mecanically speaking), efficiency and flexibility. Once you have a bullet proof electric platform you can put ANYTHING on top of it to generate the electricity... conventional batteries, super capacitor (if they ever get there), diesel/gas generator, fuel cell... the list goes on. I personally would LOVE to have a nice little nuclear energy battery pack... wouldn't have to worry about "fuel" for 2 - 5 years, now that would be pretty cool.

Yes, you're 100% correct that coal is a REALLY dirty way to generate power... but realistically, that's a very simple problem to solve. Just replace them as time goes with better and more environmentally friendly nuclear technologies.

ICEs were not perfect when they came out either... but electric cars just make so much more sense than an ICE vehicle for most things. But there's no question that there are many very big obstacles in the way before electric vehicles become main stream. But the sooner you start/invest into these technologies the better its going to get.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 04:37 PM
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Is it cleaner than 10000 SULEV rated vehicles... no. But does it have the ability to be cleaner than 10000 Lincoln Navigator/Chevy tahoes... yes.

There's MUCH more to consider about electric vehicles than just their environmental impacts. How valuable is being self sustainable? Buy a small 2 - 5k windmill/solar panels and make your own car fuel. The true beauty behind the electric platform is its simplicity (mecanically speaking), efficiency and flexibility. Once you have a bullet proof electric platform you can put ANYTHING on top of it to generate the electricity... conventional batteries, super capacitor (if they ever get there), diesel/gas generator, fuel cell... the list goes on. I personally would LOVE to have a nice little nuclear energy battery pack... wouldn't have to worry about "fuel" for 2 - 5 years, now that would be pretty cool.

Yes, you're 100% correct that coal is a REALLY dirty way to generate power... but realistically, that's a very simple problem to solve. Just replace them as time goes with better and more environmentally friendly nuclear technologies.

ICEs were not perfect when they came out either... but electric cars just make so much more sense than an ICE vehicle for most things. But there's no question that there are many very big obstacles in the way before electric vehicles become main stream. But the sooner you start/invest into these technologies the better its going to get.
that i agreed, techological obsticals must be overcome before people can reps the benifit of the electic vechicals. just a thought. there are current techology of transfering electricity through thin air. what if the power grid of the entire city was able to transfer electircy. as a result, your car never needs to be plug in. it can recharge when ever it needs. at the end, the monthly bills will be charge by millage driven during the month at a convient location where the entire transaction would take no longer than the express lane at your local super market.

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