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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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I have been called a lot of things. Unamerican has never been one of them...

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...=HFMostPopular
This woman absolutely disgusts me. I blame you California.



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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 11:59 AM
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These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades.

Really? Miss Pelossi? Really? Ive seen her shut down the herald of opposing views from the floor plenty of times. What a hypocrite. Oh wait, shes a dem, of course!

I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid, you're afraid of whores. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end, but to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to get naked in this thread, and then I'm going to show these whores what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where whoring is possible.
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 12:18 PM
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So then you admit to 'Drowning out opposing views'?

I'm just trying to understand how you took offense to that..
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:07 PM
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Really? Miss Pelossi? Really? Ive seen her shut down the herald of opposing views from the floor plenty of times. What a hypocrite. Oh wait, shes a dem, of course!
Seriously, are you brain dead? You think republicans are not hypocrites? Here you go... now go thump that bible. This partisan politics sh*t is truly disgusting. Wake the f^ck up, neither side has your best interests in mind. Both side are so heavily lobbied and funded by corporations that none of them really care about your best interest. Sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.

This whole health care "debate" is a joke... most Americans don't even have a clue. You claim you want freedom of choice and you don't want bureaucrats running health care and that you don't want rationing... but you completely miss the fact that, that's ALREADY what you have.

You think the insurance company cares about you? Ha. They Love you so long as your part of the 80% that pays them without needing a cent in return. Once you get sick... majorly sick they try everything under under the sun to drop your ass. Once you've been dropped... you're f^cked because now you have a pre-condition and no one wants to insure you.

The really sad part is that corporations are using the stupid/uneducated and tricking them into going against their best interest. Wake up America, you can only keep hitting that snooze button for so long...
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Seriously, are you brain dead? You think republicans are not hypocrites? Here you go... now go thump that bible. This partisan politics sh*t is truly disgusting. Wake the f^ck up, neither side has your best interests in mind. Both side are so heavily lobbied and funded by corporations that none of them really care about your best interest. Sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.

This whole health care "debate" is a joke... most Americans don't even have a clue. You claim you want freedom of choice and you don't want bureaucrats running health care and that you don't want rationing... but you completely miss the fact that, that's ALREADY what you have.

You think the insurance company cares about you? Ha. They Love you so long as your part of the 80% that pays them without needing a cent in return. Once you get sick... majorly sick they try everything under under the sun to drop your ass. Once you've been dropped... you're f^cked because now you have a pre-condition and no one wants to insure you.

The really sad part is that corporations are using the stupid/uneducated and tricking them into going against their best interest. Wake up America, you can only keep hitting that snooze button for so long...
I am tired on Canadians involving themselves in American politics. You have no say. Get out of our debate.



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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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So then you admit to 'Drowning out opposing views'?

I'm just trying to understand how you took offense to that..
How did you interpret this from the post? That is a quote from the article. The reality is that she wants to push through legislation that will provide government run healthcare. I just hope when it gets here, it is as good and cheap as all of the other government programs...

If you want to reform healthcare -- fine. But a government option as support for coompetitiveness? Give it a rest. It is simply a point of view that is unsubstantiated. I need you to tell me ONE time that goverment run programs were an impetus to competition. I'll wait here.



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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:20 PM
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I am tired on Canadians involving themselves in American politics. You have no say. Get out of our debate.
Wow, really? Can't attack the message so you attack the messenger... gotcha.
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:24 PM
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Well Powermoose, if you would STFU and listen to what people have say, even if they don't live here it doesn't mean they don't know what is going on, then you might learn something.

He is right, your just to stubborn and think because your an American that you know best, when you really must not!

So why are you pissed off again Powermoose?
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, really? Can't attack the message so you attack the messenger... gotcha.
Right back at you...

Your message: Corporations are evil...I work for a corporation, as do a lot of other people. They are not evil. They are nothing more than vehicles designed to make money. That is their only purpose. Your demonization of them implies that making money is in some way perverse. Here is a news flash: people are incented by money. Kind words and friendship get you nowhere...

Jeepboy:

Your argument centers on the assumption that healthcare is a right.

Healthcare is not a right. Why is that so hard to accept? The preamble to the constitution (of the United States) says I am entitled to life. It does not say for how long or under what condition. Nor does it say that I am entitled to life at someone else's expense.

I am pissed because of your assumption. If you want to join some kind of health cooperative -- then do it -- but don't think for a second that the government is a good steward for it.



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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:38 PM
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http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...=HFMostPopular
This woman absolutely disgusts me. I blame you California.
So as a Californian I am to blame for not voting this woman into to congress? So any man/woman with an extreme liberal consensus that is able to appeal to the retarded masses is to blame? Ok, I guess there aren't any idiots or bad politicians in Georgia.

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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So as a Californian I am to blame for not voting this woman into to congress? So any man/woman with an extreme liberal consensus that is able to appeal to the retarded masses is to blame? Ok, I guess there aren't any idiots or bad politicians in Georgia.
Dude, our governor prayed for rain during the last drought...We have plenty. You have an official exemption.



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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:44 PM
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Dude, our governor prayed for rain during the last drought...We have plenty. You have an official exemption.
And I see you have a clusterfvck for your next governor going on. Good luck with that one.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:46 PM
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All part of the propaganda...

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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:00 PM
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stop thinking republican democrat they are all the same.



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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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This isn't a partisan issue to me. I hate both parties equally. When the Speaker of the House calls the public "Unamerican." I have an issue with that. My issue is with her trying to hide behind patriotism as a means to pass her socialist agenda.



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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:29 PM
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This bill will get passed. Regardless of whether it is in the interest of the people or not. Our government does not care what we say/think anymore and hasn't for a long time.

This whole plan is going to be a shift in profit. From private corporations who have worked hard to get to the level that they are at (see: capitalism) to the money going to the government. Therefore making it more powerful and even closer than what we are to a dictatorship.

Free country? Liberty? Haha, any fool who believes that ish need a wake up call. This is beyond dems/reps. The problem lies in government. End of story.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:33 PM
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Oh, and Miss Pelosi,

"Now — with Americans strongly supporting health insurance reform...."

This is a bold faced lie. Even some of your own Democrats are against this bill. The only people whom I have seen support this bill are from CANADA!

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:37 PM
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This bill will get passed. Regardless of whether it is in the interest of the people or not. Our government does not care what we say/think anymore and hasn't for a long time.

This whole plan is going to be a shift in profit. From private corporations who have worked hard to get to the level that they are at (see: capitalism) to the money going to the government. Therefore making it more powerful and even closer than what we are to a dictatorship.

Free country? Liberty? Haha, any fool who believes that ish need a wake up call. This is beyond dems/reps. The problem lies in government. End of story.
LanCo, after all of our disagreements, that last segment written above makes me feel bad for being a jerk to you. I completely agree.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:40 PM
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Right back at you...
Right back at who? You say that like you actually made an argument. When have I ever attacked a messenger instead of the message? Please start citing some examples.

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Your message: Corporations are evil...I work for a corporation, as do a lot of other people. They are not evil. They are nothing more than vehicles designed to make money. That is their only purpose. Your demonization of them implies that making money is in some way perverse. Here is a news flash: people are incented by money. Kind words and friendship get you nowhere...
First, that's not my message. But interesting attempt at twisting my words.

My message: The government is corrupt and infective because it no longer serves the best interest of the people... instead it serves the best interest of huge corporations.

I'm under no illusions what duties and responsibilities a corporation/businesses have. I understand that they're in it to make money... and I have ZERO problems with that. What I do have a problem with, is corruption and greed. Specially when the big guy with unlimited resources at hand is picking on the poor.

So you think it's perfectly fine for insurance companies to take your money while you're healthy and when you get sick to drop you on your ass? Because that's how corporations are making this money. Doesn't take a Harvard MBA to make money in those conditions...

You've obviously blind if you can't see the conflict of interest in corporations owning the government. The government is supposed to serve the PEOPLE of the United States of America... NOT corporations. If companies can simply buy off politicians they get to make their own rules and f^ck over the population.

You do realize that the US spends 2x more than ANY industrialized country in the world for health care right? You don't think this needs to be addressed? You have these CEOs making more in a single day (5000 - 6000 an hour) than an average American does all year. The way they're successful and make all this money is by throwing their customers on their ass when they need them most. Instead of the company incurring a slight financial loss they make their former customer bear the brunt of the loss and declare bankruptcy and lose EVERYTHING that they've worked so hard for their entire life.

But the only thing that matters in life is money right?

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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:42 PM
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How did you interpret this from the post? That is a quote from the article. The reality is that she wants to push through legislation that will provide government run healthcare. I just hope when it gets here, it is as good and cheap as all of the other government programs...

If you want to reform healthcare -- fine. But a government option as support for coompetitiveness? Give it a rest. It is simply a point of view that is unsubstantiated. I need you to tell me ONE time that goverment run programs were an impetus to competition. I'll wait here.
I interpreted this from your post topic titled "I have been called a lot of things. Unamerican has never been one of them..". If you feel that you are being called un-American then, that must mean you feel guilty for what was stated in the article.

And the only place it says un-American in that article is here:

"These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."


So according to that article, I assume that you are un-American because you drown out opposing views. Or have I completely gone crazy, and am unable to read your topic title?

I'm not crazy.
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:43 PM
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Oh, and Miss Pelosi,

"Now with Americans strongly supporting health insurance reform...."

This is a bold faced lie. Even some of your own Democrats are against this bill. The only people whom I have seen support this bill are from CANADA!
Interesting, I assume this is a jab in my direction... Care to cite where I throw my support behind this bill? I'm in agreement that the system is f^cked but I don't recall ever saying I was in favor of this bill and I challenge you to call me out on that.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 02:51 PM
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^ Don't go getting too self righteous there, pliberal.

You are not the only one.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2009, 12:31 PM
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And the only place it says un-American in that article is here:

"These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."


So according to that article, I assume that you are un-American because you drown out opposing views. Or have I completely gone crazy, and am unable to read your topic title?

I'm not crazy.
Yea you are crazy. For pretending that dragon lady is actually telling the truth. What she means is that if you dont agree with her and dare to voice your opinion in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM be it thorugh a phone call, an email or speaking at a townhall you are simply un-American. Its not about the drowning out. Thats just what she says to try and put her halo on. Its about simply disagreeing with her. To her, drowning out is simply disagreeing with her.

I havent seen any drowning out at any of the town hall meetings I went to. Check that. I saw the DEMOCRATS drowning out opposing views by making damn near impossible for anyone with a differing opinion to even get into a townhall meeting. I wasnt allowed into my local TH meeting and some of them werent even held. Look no further than when Supreme Leader was in New Hampshire. He said what he had to say, which as usual makes no sense what so ever, then when he asked for questions there were none! THAT is drowning out an opinion. Yelling and shouting is a bi-product of being taken advantage of and politicians dodging the answers to direct questions because they know the answer torpedos their plan. Its a bi-product of not being listened to. And that is what you are seeing. People who are frustrated that congress and the president, a whooping 551 people(535 in Congress and 16 in the cabinet) think that they know better than the people in these districts and states.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 10:49 PM
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Unbelievable. The dems get put into power in 08 and they're very quick to win more hearts and minds by stiffling free speech and labeling those that oppose them close minded, racist and now unamerican. This intolerance in it's own is unamerican! Not that any of this is new for the libs, but this is bordering on fascism.
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 08:31 AM
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I am tired on Canadians involving themselves in American politics. You have no say. Get out of our debate.
WOW! Way to contribute to the thread!
You're tired of Canadians involving themselves in American politics? LOL!!
Don't you think the Arab's are thinking the same thing about you and your "American Democracy"??

Don't worry powermoose1,
You won't have to worry about your precious American politics when she falls under the one world government rule.


With an attitude like this I wonder if you even know what snow is?

I let my $h!T riding do the talking! Wait a second??
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-27-2009, 03:02 PM
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Dude, our governor prayed for rain during the last drought...We have plenty. You have an official exemption.
hahaha. I remember that.

Hopefully you all voted him out. Or will.

If that is how you fix a problem then you should not be in office.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-27-2009, 08:39 PM
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personally, we all konw that everybody has their own views on the goverment and i believe that this government should STOP worring about a health care system that "reforms america" and spend all that money they plan on taxing us for, on trying to get our economy thriving again...

just my opinion

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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-28-2009, 12:34 AM
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personally, we all konw that everybody has their own views on the goverment and i believe that this government should STOP worring about a health care system that "reforms america" and spend all that money they plan on taxing us for, on trying to get our economy thriving again...

just my opinion
The problem with that thinking is that America can afford to do nothing with the health care issue. The problem is that the current health care system is like cancer, if it doesn't get treated, health care and social security alone will break America.

The problem is that health care costs are growing at 3 - 4x that of inflation. If the price of a high ticket item/service (like health care) grows 3 - 4x faster than your paycheck, eventually there's going to come a time when you can no longer pay for those items/services. It's just basic economics... Something needs to be done to contain the costs of healthcare whether you like it or not. You can look the other way all you like, but that's not going to fix anything.

If you haven't already watched it I'd urge all Americans to checkout the IOUSA documentary full length 2 hrs or 30 min version it's a very informative/scary insight on where the USA is headed...

Last edited by pbeaul; 11-28-2009 at 12:37 AM.
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-28-2009, 01:01 PM
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I don't see why we have health ins companies at all. 30% of all health care money spent goes to paperwork.

Medicaire only uses 6%

Socialism isn't bad as long as it isn't your entire system.

We have had socialism in this country for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Public Schools, Firemen, Police, Military, VA, Medicaire, Social Security, Welfare, etc.......

I would not want to get rid of most of those.
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-06-2009, 11:03 PM
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Hmmm, how many of you folks on this thread actually pay the lions share of the health care premiums? I've been wrestling with health care costs since 1991 and it's a very very complex subject. I will agree with Paul that nobody in the US Government is really looking out for my best interests (that is the interests of a small business owner).

A couple of points. Most large corporations couldn't care less about this whole debate. They already provide health insurance to the majority of their workers. Also, they use the Blue-Crosses and Aetna's as paperwork processing agencies. They self-insure, so they dictate (not insurance companies) what is covered for their employees. The tax on "cadillac" plans will actually reduce their costs, as they'll be able to reduce benefits and blame it on the Government.

I agree something needs to be done. I would prefer to see employees "own" their own health insurance, so they can pick and choose which plans they want from private companies. That way they aren't held hostage at a company with "great" benefits. If the Government maintained the deductibility of company contributions to health plans, this could be easily accomplished. Just prohibit companies from actually providing insurance directly to employees. The company could subsidize the insurance but the employee would be free to go wherever they choose. If people could shop plans across State lines, you would see rates drop real fast.

Pre-existing conditions is a tricky subject. Massachusetts is a good case study. Turns out that younger folks tended to skip paying for insurance (even paying a fine) until they have a problem, THEN they purchase the insurance. So, the risk pooling necessary of the many healthy to cover the few really sick gets screwed up.

Here's what's really going on. First, Medicare is on a path to financial destruction, and everyone in Washington knows it. The only way to "fix" the problem is to do what private insurance companies do; deny benefits. So you will see rationing of benefits to older folks. That's not partisan talk, it's the cold hard truth. Second, younger healthier folks need to be in the "system" so the risk pool can be increased to help cover the costs for the additional insured to be added to the program (over 30 million of them). Third, small businesses will be forced to go with the public option, which will increase the risk pool for Medicare and Medicaid. All of those Government programs will be merged into one uber-program. This will actually drive down the per-person cost. But, the overall costs will go up, paid for by younger folks who currently don't pay into the system, and small business owners who don't have the political clout to resist.

I had hoped that there would be a fair and honest debate of this issue, with truly all options on the table. Tort reform was eliminated, shopping across State lines was refused, and these are just two of many many good ideas that were not even seriously considered. Nobody can argue that those two items I listed wouldn't reduce costs. So why not consider them?

Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Representative democracy: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep who vote on what to have for dinner.
Constitutional republic: Constitution that says sheep cannot be eaten. The Supreme Court then votes 5 wolves to 4 sheep that mutton does not count as sheep.
Liberty: Well-armed sheep contesting the above votes.
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