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post #1 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-11-2009, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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9/11 was an inside job?

Decide for yourself if we have been told the WHOLE truth...



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post #2 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-11-2009, 08:41 PM
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*****yawn******

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post #3 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-11-2009, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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*****yawn******
Did you watch the movie?

I think it asks some very important questions.
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post #4 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-11-2009, 09:49 PM
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Ohh......here we go again!

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post #5 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-11-2009, 11:33 PM
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For those that care also check this one out, I think the approach taken is much better. It's about the journey of a few 9/11 widows in their quest to get some answers about the events of that day... people that have the right to ask tough questions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8779414136481#

The video does nothing more than ask basic questions... all of which never really get answered.

Government spent less than 20 million dollars investigating the largest terrorist attack on US soil that also had many other world firsts. Government went out of its way prevent a thorough and detailed investigation of how they collapsed.

US government spent 5x more money investigating Bill Clinton's BJ than it did the collapse of two of the worlds largest buildings that were designed to withstand plane strikes and fire. Don't you think engineers could have gained LOTS of useful knowledge to make future buildings even safer? Why weren't they allowed to run basic forensic/metallurgical analysis? Why was everything shipped away to china for recycling almost immediately?

There are just too many coincidences and unanswered questions... I don't know the extent of the involvement, or what happened behind the scenes but it's painfully obvious that the government is trying to hide something.

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post #6 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 12:17 AM
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I find the video actually kinda interesting he he
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post #7 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 12:33 AM
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Did you watch the movie?

I think it asks some very important questions.
Couldn't you pick a different day to play conspiracy theorist? Any other day other than this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBrY9Xukrc


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post #8 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 12:38 AM
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not to mention the fact that the twin towers had an astronomical amount of asbestos that needed to be removed (hence all the respiratory disease inflicted on the rescue/cleanup crews)

A lot easier to demo it :/
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post #9 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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Couldn't you pick a different day to play conspiracy theorist? Any other day other than this one?
I'm not playing conspiracy theorist. I was asking a question.

So, you watched the movie, right?

I'm guessing we shouldn't ask questions anymore, even though most of the 9/11 Commission state that the report they made was completely false.

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The 9/11 Commission Rejects own Report as Based on Government Lies

Gordon Duff Salem-News.com How long have we watered the Tree of Deceit with the blood of patriots?

John Farmer’s book: “The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11″

(CINCINNATI, Ohio) - In John Farmer’s book: “The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11″, the author builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version... is almost entirely untrue...
The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue. The details of this massive cover-up are carefully outlined in a book by John Farmer, who was the Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission.
Farmer, Dean of Rutger Universities' School of Law and former Attorney General of New Jersey, was responsible for drafting the original flawed 9/11 report.
Does Farmer have cooperation and agreement from other members of the Commission? Yes. Did they say Bush ordered 9/11? No. Do they say that the 9/11 Commission was lied to by the FBI, CIA, Whitehouse and NORAD? Yes. Is there full documentary proof of this? Yes.
Farmer states...“at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”
The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . " When Bush's own handpicked commission failed to go along with the cover up and requested a criminal investigation, why was nothing done?
9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."
With the only "official" 9/11 report now totally false, where do we go from here? Who is hurt by these lies? The families of the victims of 9/11 have fought, for years, to get to the truth. For years, our government has hidden behind lies and secrecy to deny them closure.
In 2006, The Washington Post reported..."Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and other evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that military and aviation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and to the commission..."
What does Farmer's book tell us? Farmer offers no solutions, only a total and full rejection of what was told and his own his own ideas concerning the total failure of honesty on the part of the government, a government with something to hide.


Farmer never tells us what. Nobody could keep a job in the public sector speaking out more than Farmer has. What were Farmer's omissions? There are some. Now that we know that intelligence given the 9/11 Commission wasn't just lies from our own government but based on testimony coerced through torture from informants forced to back up a cover story now proven false, a pattern emerges.
We know that, immediately after 9/11, many more potential suspects and informants were flown directly to Saudi Arabia by Presidential order than were ever detained and questioned. We will never know what they could have said. Their testimony would have been vital to any real investigation were they not put beyond the reach of even Congress and the FBI.
Putting aside all other questions of recent evidence of CIA involvement with bin Laden prior to 9/11 or altered physical evidence involving the Pentagon attack, any failure to call to account the systematic perjury committed by dozens of top government officials, now exposed as a certainty is an offense to every American.
What do we know? We know the conjecture about 9/11 still stands but for certain, we know we were lied to, not in a minor way, but systematically as part of a plot covering up government involvement at nearly every level, perhaps gross negligence, perhaps something with darker intent.
Are we willing to live with another lie to go with the Warren Report, Iran Contra and so many others? Has the sacrifice of thousands more Americans, killed, wounded or irreparably damaged by a war knowingly built on the same lies from the same liars who misled the 9/11 Commission pushed us beyond willingness to confront the truth?
Have we yet found where the lies have begun and ended? There is no evidence of this, only evidence to the contrary. The lies live on and the truth will never be sought. The courage for that task has not been found.
Can anyone call themselves an American if they don't demand, even with the last drop of their blood, that the truth be found?
How long have we watered the Tree of Deceit with the blood of patriots?
================================================
Gordon Duff is a Marine combat veteran and a regular contributor to Veterans Today. He specializes in political and social issues. You can see a large collection of Gordon's published articles at this link: VeteransToday.com.
He is an outspoken advocate for veterans and his powerful words have brought about change. Gordon is a lifelong PTSD sufferer from his war experiences and he is empathetic to the plight of today's veterans also suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. We greatly appreciate the opportunity to feature Gordon's timely and critical reports on Salem-News.com, a news organization staffed by a number of veterans, particularly former U.S. Marines.
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post #10 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:01 PM
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how do u know if that info is right? ^^^ ... no1 knows who to trust these days... i personally think u cant trust anyone, whoevwer is incharge there will be corruption...miteaswell be a goverment that u can join and get in on it :p

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post #11 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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how do u know if that info is right? ^^^ ... no1 knows who to trust these days... i personally think u cant trust anyone, whoevwer is incharge there will be corruption...miteaswell be a goverment that u can join and get in on it :p
And its statements like this that confirm my initial thoughts on you being a complete idiot.
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post #12 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:33 PM
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And its statements like this that confirm my initial thoughts on you being a complete idiot.

ouch!!........
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post #13 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:37 PM
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Complete and utter overreaction to the Swine Flu outbreak, now all of a suddon a push for government run National Healthcare... coincidence?!?!?!?!
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post #14 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:39 PM
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Complete and utter overreaction to the Swine Flu outbreak, now all of a suddon a push for government run National Healthcare... coincidence?!?!?!?!

Just move up here to Canada like I did and then you get Nationalized heathcare without even having to think about it
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post #15 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:46 PM
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Just move up here to Canada like I did and then you get Nationalized heathcare without even having to think about it
Yeah I had it when I lived in Austria, it freaking sucked...
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post #16 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 06:58 PM
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Welcome to the "World Order". I am waiting for when they will push the "Ameuro", American Euro. Who knows what they will do next.

"It only hurts till you die"

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post #17 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Welcome to the "World Order". I am waiting for when they will push the "Ameuro", American Euro. Who knows what they will do next.
Bah, you're just talking about conspiracy theory....

Quote:
U.N. Panel Calls For Dollar Reserve Role To Be Eliminated


By Steve Goldstein
A United Nations panel weighed into the dollar reserve currency debate, arguing for a new system of soft pegs to correct severe deficits in debtor nations like the U.S. and surpluses in countries like China.
The report from the United Nations conference on Trade and Development, issued on Monday, said the world economy would be better off with a system where governments intervene when necessary to either defend or depress their own currencies.
"A viable solution to the exchange-rate problem would be a system of managed flexible exchange rates targeting a rate that is consistent with a sustainable current-account position, which is preferable to any 'corner solution.' But since the exchange rate is a variable that involves more than one currency, there is a much better chance of achieving a stable pattern of exchange rates in a multilaterally agreed framework for exchange-rate management," said the U.N. body.
The role of the dollar reserve's status has been criticized of late, notably by Russia and China, which have called for the International Monetary Fund's special drawing rights to be used instead, a proposal that many see as impractical given the lack of availability or purchase power outside of settling international obligations.
The U.N. sees the impracticalities of the SDRs but also highlighted problems with the current system.
"An economy whose currency is used as a reserve currency is not under the same obligation as others to make the necessary macroeconomic or exchange-rate adjustments for avoiding continuing current account deficits. Thus, the dominance of the dollar as the main means of international payments also played an important role in the build-up of the global imbalances in the run-up to the financial crisis," the U.N. said.
But the report also took aim at countries like China and Germany with current account surpluses.
While debtor nations like the U.S. are compelled to reduce imports when their ability to obtain external financing reaches its limits, "surplus countries are under no systemic obligation to raise their imports in order to balance their payments."
So the U.N. wants a system where countries would manage exchange rates within a band.
It would curb speculation, prevent currency crises, prevent long-lasting imbalances, avoid debt traps for developing countries, avoid procylical conditions and minimize the need to hold international reserves.
The U.N. acknowledged such a system won't come overnight.
"Establishing such a system would take some time, not least because it requires international consensus and multilateral institution building," the U.N. said.
The Group of 20 leading industrialized and developing countries meets later this month in Pittsburgh but the dollar's reserve status isn't expected to be on the agenda.
-Steve Goldstein; 44 207 842 9424; [email protected]
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...08-704507.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...currency_union

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post #18 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 07:24 PM
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For those that care also check this one out, I think the approach taken is much better. It's about the journey of a few 9/11 widows in their quest to get some answers about the events of that day... people that have the right to ask tough questions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...8779414136481#

The video does nothing more than ask basic questions... all of which never really get answered.
Good one beaul, thx for the vid.
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post #19 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-12-2009, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, Press for Truth is a great primer.
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post #20 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 01:02 AM
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Yeah I had it when I lived in Austria, it freaking sucked...

Well I have never lived in Austria but the heathcare system up here is pretty badass!! I would never want to live without it! EVERRRRRRRRR
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post #21 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 01:04 AM
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But it would almost be worth living in Austria and having bad healthcare for the hot a$$ Austrian chicks ;)
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post #22 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 01:04 AM
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Well I have never lived in Austria but the heathcare system up here is pretty badass!! I would never want to live without it! EVERRRRRRRRR
Have you experienced anything other then socialized health care?
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post #23 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 01:25 AM
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Have you experienced anything other then socialized health care?

Born and Raised in Napa California :)
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post #24 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 01:28 AM
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We get just as good service and quality of care here as I ever did down there.
And the thing that I like about it up here is not only the price of it but the fact that I can go to any doctor in any office and any hospital.
I had Kaiser down there which I have nothing but good things to say about in my times that I spent in their emergency rooms :)
But it sucked that we had to drive 45 mins to Valeijo (sp) to go to their hospital when there was a hospital 3 mins away from where I lived that wasn't a Kaiser one :/

But like I said other then that I never had any issues :)

Weren't we talking about 911? hehe ;)

Damn us thread jackers!!!
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post #25 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 01:59 AM
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Regardless of your personal impressions on it, socialism is against the thing that made this country so great in the first place, the constitution. The government does not need to invade our lives anymore then they already have.
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post #26 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-13-2009, 11:51 AM
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Government spent less than 20 million dollars investigating the largest terrorist attack on US soil that also had many other world firsts. Government went out of its way prevent a thorough and detailed investigation of how they collapsed.
That's not my understanding. I've seen plenty of analysis, including a History Channel production, that provided a very detailed analysis of both the towers and the Pentagon, complete with computer models.

Quote:

US government spent 5x more money investigating Bill Clinton's BJ than it did the collapse of two of the worlds largest buildings that were designed to withstand plane strikes and fire
Not sure if that's an accurate figure. The towers were certainly tall but not even close to being the largest from a square footage standpoint (visit any Boeing assembly plant). They were not designed to withstand an airstrike from an airliner with a full bag of fuel. To be more accurate, they did in fact withstand the airstrikes. It was the subsequent fire, coupled with the impact structural weakening that caused the collapse.

Quote:
. Don't you think engineers could have gained LOTS of useful knowledge to make future buildings even safer? Why weren't they allowed to run basic forensic/metallurgical analysis? Why was everything shipped away to china for recycling almost immediately?
To the best of my knowledge, there were was a very detailed analysis completed. Again, the History Channel production showed these being done and discussed at length the results. They even showed the markings on the beams, that were put on them during the building's construction, which made identification of the location of the debris (pre-impact), much easier. As an engineer, I can tell you that you don't have to analyze the entire building to determine its failure mode. Also, the unique design of the towers (essentially an exoskeleton like a lobster) makes the failure analysis much much easier.
I drove past the piles of steel from the towers for quite some time, so they were not shipped to China in a hurry. Once the necessary pieces were identified, there was no need to retain the rest.

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There are just too many coincidences and unanswered questions... I don't know the extent of the involvement, or what happened behind the scenes but it's painfully obvious that the government is trying to hide something.
I just don't see it. Most folks have no idea how much energy is contained in a gallon of JetA jet fuel (basically kerosene). I briefly worked on the Anti-Misting Kerosene (AMK) project, which culminated in the Controlled Impact Demonstration. I have first hand knowledge of how destructive jet fuel can be if it is misted then detonated. Each aircraft carried around 10,000 gallons of JetA. JetA has 135,000 BTU per gallon. There would be an initial fireball that would burn approx. 1/3 of the fuel (say 3000 gallons). That's 405 Million BTU. Dynamite has 5000 BTU per pound, so that's equivalent to 81,000 pounds of dynamite. No reaction is 100% efficient, but suffice to say at least the equivalent of 40,000 pounds of dynamite went off, blowing away any fire-proofing properties sprayed on the support beams. The remaining 7,000 gallons of fuel was left to burn, weakening the structure further beyond the impact damage.

I found this link after writing this, which gives a more technical analysis of the impact and fire.

Sorry, I just don't see the conspiracy. Failure to prevent the attacks? Sure. But conspiracy by the Government to bring down the towers? No.

Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Representative democracy: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep who vote on what to have for dinner.
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post #27 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 01:24 AM
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First, did you watch either of the movies posted here?

I don't enjoy being a conspiracy theory nut... do I believe that the government itself staged the entire attack, killing thousands of Americans in the process? No. Do I feel that the government is complicit in some legitimate form (i.e. other than just being incompetent/lazy)? Yes, sadly I do.

Just some perspective these are not total dollars spent just what was originally allocated:
Quote:
Amount of money allocated for the 1986 Challenger disaster investigation: $75 million
Amount of money allocated for the 2004 Columbia disaster investigation: $50 million
Amount of money allocated for Clinton-Lewinsky investigation: $40 million
Amount of money allocated for the 9/11 Commission: $14 million

Days until an investigation was ordered into the Pearl Harbour attack: 9
Days until an investigation was ordered into the Kennedy assassination: 7
Days until an investigation was ordered into the Challenger disaster: 7
Number of days until an investigation was ordered into the sinking of the Titanic: 6
Number of days until an investigation was ordered into the 9/11 attacks: 411
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That's not my understanding. I've seen plenty of analysis, including a History Channel production, that provided a very detailed analysis of both the towers and the Pentagon, complete with computer models.
Well, it sound like you don't really have a thorough understanding then. Watch the videos presented here, they leave plenty of BASIC and very legitimate questions unanswered...

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Not sure if that's an accurate figure. The towers were certainly tall but not even close to being the largest from a square footage standpoint (visit any Boeing assembly plant). They were not designed to withstand an airstrike from an airliner with a full bag of fuel. To be more accurate, they did in fact withstand the airstrikes. It was the subsequent fire, coupled with the impact structural weakening that caused the collapse.
Twin Towers were not the worlds largest (by volume/floor space), but they were at one time (for 2 years anyways) considered the worlds tallest buildings. They were in fact designed to take a plane strike from a Boeing 707... plane comparison link. The amount of fuel carried has largely been ruled out, as kerosene couldn't have burned hot enough to severely compromise the strength of the steel under the events/conditions of that day.

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To the best of my knowledge, there were was a very detailed analysis completed. Again, the History Channel production showed these being done and discussed at length the results. They even showed the markings on the beams, that were put on them during the building's construction, which made identification of the location of the debris (pre-impact), much easier. As an engineer, I can tell you that you don't have to analyze the entire building to determine its failure mode. Also, the unique design of the towers (essentially an exoskeleton like a lobster) makes the failure analysis much much easier.
Again, look no further than the 9/11 report for this "detailed analysis", the one that didn't even include the failure of WTC 7 in the report.

You're correct that they don't need to analyze the entirety of the building... but they didn't even do a thorough investigation. Almost all the steel was destroyed (kept less than 1% of the structural steel) and most of the "sensitive" stuff was carted away to china for less than market value.

As an engineer, with your understanding of basic materials etc... explain how likely it is for paperwork (such as passports and ids) to survive an inferno (that's supposedly hot enough to compromise steal 1500*+) and the collapse that pulverized steel reinforced concrete into dust... How did the government manage to find almost all of the IDs shortly after the attack? If they found 1 or 2... that would be a miracle but all of them? I'm sorry something's starting to smell fishy.

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I drove past the piles of steel from the towers for quite some time, so they were not shipped to China in a hurry. Once the necessary pieces were identified, there was no need to retain the rest.
Yea, that's because there was a metric SH*T load of steel. Before the end of the month, a HUGE volume of structural steel was removed. 2 - 3 weeks after the collapse all the trucks hauling away materials were equiped with real-time monitoring systems so that their whereabouts could be tracked at all times (reason for this is because WTC steel was ending up in local junkyards... which wasn't the plan).

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Originally Posted by sfoster View Post
I just don't see it. Most folks have no idea how much energy is contained in a gallon of JetA jet fuel (basically kerosene). I briefly worked on the Anti-Misting Kerosene (AMK) project, which culminated in the Controlled Impact Demonstration. I have first hand knowledge of how destructive jet fuel can be if it is misted then detonated. Each aircraft carried around 10,000 gallons of JetA. JetA has 135,000 BTU per gallon. There would be an initial fireball that would burn approx. 1/3 of the fuel (say 3000 gallons). That's 405 Million BTU. Dynamite has 5000 BTU per pound, so that's equivalent to 81,000 pounds of dynamite. No reaction is 100% efficient, but suffice to say at least the equivalent of 40,000 pounds of dynamite went off, blowing away any fire-proofing properties sprayed on the support beams. The remaining 7,000 gallons of fuel was left to burn, weakening the structure further beyond the impact damage.

I found this link after writing this, which gives a more technical analysis of the impact and fire.
You're right... most folks don't... but experts (scientists/physicists, engineers... i.e. bunch of people with PhDs) with knowledge in structural steel and fires disagree. These people are not conspiracy theorists.

If you're an engineer, I suggest you watch this presentation which dives into more technical/theoretical stuff. Here's a video from Architect & Engineers for truth

The Architects & Engineers for truth website

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Originally Posted by sfoster View Post
Sorry, I just don't see the conspiracy. Failure to prevent the attacks? Sure. But conspiracy by the Government to bring down the towers? No.
I personally don't want to believe that there is a conspiracy... but there's just so much evidence that disputes the "official" story. If you're an engineer... do some research, ask yourself if the "facts" being presented/reported go against everything you know/have been taught your entire life.

But don't believe anything I'm telling you, do your own research, draw your own conclusions... but don't for one second just believe the official story because it's the official story.

Last edited by pbeaul; 09-14-2009 at 10:06 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #28 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 01:15 PM
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I'm not playing conspiracy theorist. I was asking a question.
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Originally Posted by krisboro View Post
Bah, you're just talking about conspiracy theory....
What the heck do you think this thread is?

9/11 an inside job?


That's a conspiracy theory.

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post #29 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 01:37 PM
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I think the O.P. organized the whole 911 attack. I say we call the F.B.I. on his @$$! LOL!

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post #30 of 200 (permalink) Old 09-14-2009, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sideroadslayer View Post
not to mention the fact that the twin towers had an astronomical amount of asbestos that needed to be removed (hence all the respiratory disease inflicted on the rescue/cleanup crews)

A lot easier to demo it :/
The twin towers did not use asbestos around the beams, and that is why they DID collapse, from the heat caused by burning jet fuel heating the beams to the bending point.

The respiratory ailments could have been caused by cement dust, silicates from the pulverized glass, a number of other things.

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Last edited by WherzRoony; 09-14-2009 at 02:02 PM.
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