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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Protestors at fallen soldier's funeral...

Sorry if someone posted this before, just bring it up and seeing what people think about this.. To me this is a sad day in America, especially if the father of the soldier loses this. I know theres a big debate bout the guy who got pulled over at gun point but this really pushes it wayyy to far in my opinion. I hope that he wins or somehow gets a law started to ban protesting at funerals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_funeral_protests

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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 08:07 PM
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As much as I find WBC's actions to be reprehensible... I can't be a hypocrite and say that they are not entitled to their free speech. I might not agree with what you say, but I would die to defend your right to say it. Sadly, just as people can use the first amendment for amazingly good and positive things others can use it to say/do shitty and morally reprehensible things.

The first amendment is there to protect unpopular speech, not popular speech. If we start making exceptions and definitions for acceptable speech we'd be heading down a very slippery slope.

Sadly, I don't see dad getting a win in supreme court.
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 09:30 PM
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It's rare but I actually agree with pbeaul on this one.

But to add to it. I think this is one of those cases where a good old ass kickin was in order. Sure, the lawsuits would fly afterwards but those westover nuts should have been bruised and bloodied up a bit to teach them some respect.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 09:41 PM
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It's rare but I actually agree with pbeaul on this one.

But to add to it. I think this is one of those cases where a good old ass kickin was in order. Sure, the lawsuits would fly afterwards but those westover nuts should have been bruised and bloodied up a bit to teach them some respect.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Even down to the agreeing with pbeaul! lol

But seriously, we cannot take away freedom of speech but these people definitely deserve to have a mouthful of fist delivered any and every time they do this.

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 09:43 PM
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This case is actually from a neighboring county to me. This is really a tough judgement call... I'd love to say "I hope he wins and takes all their money!", but that could take us down a seriously dark path. Ugh, what to do!?

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 10:24 PM
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theres no reason anybody should be allowed to picket a funeral
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 12:02 AM
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It's rare but I actually agree with pbeaul on this one.
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Even down to the agreeing with pbeaul! lol
Careful... That's another slippery slope.

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theres no reason anybody should be allowed to picket a funeral
Technically, I think they were protesting just outside the funeral, on public property. Had it been on private property they could have been arrested for trespassing or something... The constitution strikes again.

Not everything that comes with freedom/liberty is positive. There's always going to be a minority that will take something to an extreme.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 04:08 PM
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I dont see why the father even cares these people are idiots anyway, they think god is killing soldiers ? - it's war that kills soldiers not god.

And I hate to point out the obvious but gay people dont have kids save for artificial insemination for women so it seems to me left unchecked the problem will take care of itself like maybe thats gods way of thinning the heard ?

Second of all I like what Carlin said about free speech - you have the right to say what you want and I have the right to shoot you.

Personally if it were me I would grab a bat and go f some people up, claim aggravated assault get an attorney sponsored by veterans affairs claim temporary insanity and walk to the adoration of an entire nation. Actually I hope some badass general gets the IRS to revoke the churches tax exempt status and see how long they last.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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I understand the whole free speech and I can see the church getting off the hook but I think something needs to be done so these things can't happen cuz of the fact what some of you are saying. This happens to the wrong person and theres gonna be more problems then this. A shooting, beating, etc. I just think there needs to be some law that limits what you can protest at cuz this is just wrong! Protesting a funeral?! Come on give me a break. I dont care if the person who dies is a serial killer or a lowlife leader at a crazed church, people shouldn't be protesting at a funeral or near a funeral directed at it. I would never ever think about doing this at anyones funeral. Theres a small word that I think if people would actually follow it, this wouldn't be happening much and its "Respect". Plain and simple, people need to respect each other more. No one cares about anyone anymore and its getting pretty sad.

If the father doesn't win, I really hope this case opens the eyes of someone and gets something started to stop protesting at funerals. The same church group even protested at the W. Virginia mining funerals.....

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 06:39 PM
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Those people are low life scum.... and they have the right to free speech!! So do I... I hope they all die and when they do they see the light which is dark because there is nothing but blackness!! FairyTales are just that... and so is the mystical book they preach about.

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 08:44 PM
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they have their freedom of speech but im sure no one would care if he gave the head guy a nice ass beating in "self defense"...maybe he tried htting him with a sign. the dad is stupid im gunna have to say sadly for trying to do this and spending all this money ..whats next, no more rude language or you get sued?

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-15-2010, 07:59 AM
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those people are scum.... but they have the right to freedom of speech.......

now with that being said, if i had a son who died for this country, and they did this at his funeral i would be in court for murder, not for sueing them...
post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-15-2010, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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haha yea Id be right next to ya in jail for killing someone too

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-15-2010, 07:05 PM
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theres no reason anybody should be allowed to picket a funeral
No kidding - that's just WRONG !

Some people have no respect these days

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-15-2010, 07:13 PM
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I think what they are doing is sick and gives a bad name to religions.

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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 09:28 PM
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Do you think they would be protesting if say open carry was in effect? Im pretty sure alot of people would mind their own and watch their P's and Q's...just a thought

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-22-2010, 11:12 AM
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Yea I dont think they woulda done anything if they saw that they were carrying firearms lol. I think its disgusting that they were protesting at a funeral for someone who was fighting to protect our freedom. But I agree they do have a right to free speech.

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-27-2010, 09:40 AM
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i think no matter what those people should shut there freaking mouths and leave the greiveing faimly alone. There church should have more values then go out and disrupt a funereal............

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 07:00 AM
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I think they all need to smacked in their penis. Or shot. Yea you have your Freedom of Speech, but I don't think thats what your founding fathers had in mind.

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-30-2010, 11:11 AM
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I would have thought that picketing a funeral would constitute harassment, failing that he should find an alibi and then beat the ... out of em, its only what they deserve.
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 04-30-2010, 11:01 PM
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Explain this one to me, in case I'm just an idiotic retard (Nero, shut it!!). This group gets away with protesting funerals as a CHURCH group, therefore making the protest a RELIGIOUS act. Our supreme court says it's their 1st Amendment right, end of story.

But according to this little story about why the National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional, the 1st Amendment bans the creation of laws respecting an establishment of religion...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...06-503544.html

"It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," wrote Judge Barbara Crabb, who said the Day of Prayer violates the First Amendment's establishment clause, which bans the creation of a "law respecting an establishment of religion" in the Constitution.

Now I take that to mean the 1st Amendment does NOT protect this group's right to protest since they do it while representing a religious belief. Am I wrong?

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:47 PM
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Protesting at Fallen Soldier's funerals is just wrong anyway you look at it. FreeDUMB of Speech has to have a line drawn somewhere and to use God and religon is even more fucked up to boot. These religous "freaks and radicals" need to crawl back under the rock in which they crawled out from.

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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-29-2010, 11:39 PM
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Speaking as a liberal anti-war pinko hippie fag, I'd just say that those WBC guys are the lowest of the low. It's totally unacceptable to express anti-war sentiments by attacking the troops of your own country who are just doing the job they've been sent in to do, but then spitting on the memory of those who've made the ultimate sacrifice and tormenting their families by desecrating their funerals is the lowest of the low.

You could express anger about WBC, but that's exactly WBC wants you to do, so why not just laugh at them instead for being the joke that they are. You guys have probably already seen this, but if you haven't it might cheer you up a bit next time you read about those WBC guys out at some poor guy's funeral:
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-31-2010, 12:07 PM
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As much as I find WBC's actions to be reprehensible... I can't be a hypocrite and say that they are not entitled to their free speech. I might not agree with what you say, but I would die to defend your right to say it. Sadly, just as people can use the first amendment for amazingly good and positive things others can use it to say/do shitty and morally reprehensible things.

The first amendment is there to protect unpopular speech, not popular speech. If we start making exceptions and definitions for acceptable speech we'd be heading down a very slippery slope.
Very well said, and certainly part of the call of our troops to arms.

To paraphrase a statement I think Ted Nugent made several years back - we want the nuts to have free speech so we know what they are thinking and can be prepared to counter them.

However, there is certainly a time and a place for every thing. For example, you have a right to bear arms in defense of your life, your country, or at the range, but not to just pop someone on the street for the hell of it or because they disagree with you - that would be murder. The distinction is what makes us a civilized nation. Probably not the best example but I hope you get the point I am trying to make.

Hence my county just passed a law that was very effective against the protestors at a recent funeral.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/s...rals-1.2083110

When I hear about disparaging things like these protests, I call to mind a lesson of a wise old elementary school teacher of mine - my rights end where someone else's begin. And the converse of that is true too, their rights end where mine begin. It seems this is so often forgotten by our court system in drawing the line. And that is why we must stand up to these bullies who twist the spirit of the law to do reprehensible things.

The above law sets a time and a place for people to have their free speech and for people to have their funerals in peace.
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-07-2010, 09:09 PM
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 12:37 PM
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 12:12 PM
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Explain this one to me, in case I'm just an idiotic retard (Nero, shut it!!). This group gets away with protesting funerals as a CHURCH group, therefore making the protest a RELIGIOUS act. Our supreme court says it's their 1st Amendment right, end of story.

But according to this little story about why the National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional, the 1st Amendment bans the creation of laws respecting an establishment of religion...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...06-503544.html

"It goes beyond mere 'acknowledgment' of religion because its sole purpose is to encourage all citizens to engage in prayer, an inherently religious exercise that serves no secular function in this context," wrote Judge Barbara Crabb, who said the Day of Prayer violates the First Amendment's establishment clause, which bans the creation of a "law respecting an establishment of religion" in the Constitution.

Now I take that to mean the 1st Amendment does NOT protect this group's right to protest since they do it while representing a religious belief. Am I wrong?
national day of prayer means the government recognizes religion and how you spin the context of what that means can definitely mean the government sanctioning and proselytizing for religion. It's kinda like this. In a public school setting the school is not allowed to mention religion at all. But students should be allowed to pray whenever wherever they feel like it. They should even be allowed to proselytize in school. The teachers do not share the same right inside the school building because they are government employees and represent the government and have a curriculum to stick to. A teacher proselytizing in school walls is not part of any curriculum and acts as government sanctioned religion since she's doing it on the governments time. As a private citizen she retains all her rights, but not as a government employee. Once a teacher steps outside the school or school activities she can proselytize till her head turns blue. Private schools all bets are off..which is why you have catholic schools and such.

I'm an atheist btw. So all Christians can do whatever they want as long as they don't impose it on me in places I HAVE to go. (I.E. Government services that require me to enter government buildings, I should not have to looks at 10 commandments and neither should any Buddhist, Indian, Muslim, or other non christian) If I decided to go out and eat at some christian guys restaurant he can call it the "Last Supper Dine-In" for all I care. If I ate there his combination dinners could be Bible passage numbers, I don't care it's his business and he has the right to do whatever he wants. To me, Government + religion is a slippery slope. Keep all mention of atheism, theism, deism, and all other isms out of government. It can only do harm.
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-02-2011, 06:49 PM
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Update: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos..._fred_phe.html

The dad lost, supreme court upheld the WBC's first amendment rights to be assholes.

Protip: To everyone advocating violence against the WBC, you might like to know the majority of the people in this family are lawyers. They actually make a decent living by suing governments/people that infringe their constitutional/civil rights. So might want to think twice before starting something with them.
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-02-2011, 07:25 PM
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as a soldier i find it extremely rude for people to do that. im all for freedom of speach. but at least support the troops even if you dont support the mission.

we dont get to pick our battles, our government does that for us. the government that those bastard anti-war people voted in.

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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-02-2011, 07:36 PM
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While I do not agree with the protestors I do agree with the ruling. One good thing that came from the protests was the Patriot Guard Riders attending the funerals to help shield the grieving families from the protestors.

"Westboro addressed matters of public import on public property, in a peaceful manner, in full compliance with the guidance of local officials. It did not disrupt Mathew Snyder's funeral, and its choice to picket at that time and place did not alter the nature of its speech. Because this Nation has chosen to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that public debate is not stifled, Westboro must be shielded from tort liability for its picketing in this case."
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