College shown to be a scam - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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College shown to be a scam

really cool video about college and the inflation issues caused by loans.

its long, but very good.


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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 04:02 PM
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an hour long?? the intro was interesting though
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 04:48 PM
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Just watched it, very good, recommend it.


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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 04:50 PM
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thats why i went to the college of Canadian Army LoL

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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an hour long?? the intro was interesting though
the rest of it is even more interesting. i urge you to finish
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Just watched it, very good, recommend it.

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thats why i went to the college of Canadian Army LoL
why does canada have an army?

haha


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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 10:28 PM
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 05:26 AM
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Pretty interesting stuff. I wouldn't say college is a total scam. If you do decide to go to college, you should pick your degree very carefully.

You can spend 80k on a bachelors in psychology and graduate with a really high GPA and not be able to land a job and you find yourself waiting tables. I've seen this happen. I know a guy with a masters degree in psychology and is working a security position at Target making like 40k.

If you do go to college, get a technical degree. The most difficult degrees are going to have the higher payouts.

The field of computer science is very competitive and less and less people are doing it. You will not be able to land an interview at most companies (including the one I work for) if you don't have at least a bachelors in computer science or software engineering. You can spend 80k on a 4 to 5 year degree and end up making 60k+ right out of college. That's 20k more than the average household income. It will pay for itself pretty quickly as your salary increases.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 10:34 AM
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Pretty interesting stuff. I wouldn't say college is a total scam. If you do decide to go to college, you should pick your degree very carefully.

You can spend 80k on a bachelors in psychology and graduate with a really high GPA and not be able to land a job and you find yourself waiting tables. I've seen this happen. I know a guy with a masters degree in psychology and is working a security position at Target making like 40k.

If you do go to college, get a technical degree. The most difficult degrees are going to have the higher payouts.

The field of computer science is very competitive and less and less people are doing it. You will not be able to land an interview at most companies (including the one I work for) if you don't have at least a bachelors in computer science or software engineering. You can spend 80k on a 4 to 5 year degree and end up making 60k+ right out of college. That's 20k more than the average household income. It will pay for itself pretty quickly as your salary increases.


So, my wife just finished her MSA in Acounting in May. She starts working for KPMG in august. She will be starting at 55k + health, 25 payed days off every year, and there is the potential to make junior partner in < 5 years (150k+). A good friend of mine just graduated with his BS in Computer Science with a 3.2 GPA and started working last week for Booz Allen starting at 62k + benys. I will be graduating in December with my BS in Computer Science and a GPA of 3.6. I am currently interning as a Software Developer for a company making 18.50/hr. Things are going very well, and expect to get an offer at the end of the summer. Starting salary should be between 55k and 65k.

5 years ago I was a high school drop out, and flipping eggs at 6am at Cracker Barrel for 8.50/hr. - I didn't even know how to type then... I could turn on most computers but that was about the extent of my technical abilities...

We, combined, have just under 90k in school debt, but will be entering the workforce making just over 100k a year. College is expensive. No doubt about it. And for those that just go and **** off for 4-5 years it is a tremendous waste of time and money. But, for those that take it seriously and focus on accomplishing something it's invaluable.

The problem is not with college; it's with the students. You get out of it what you put in. If a student doesn't learn anything how the hell can he/she expect anyone to pay them for anything... It's all about making yourself valuable. I say, if a student doesn't want to learn anything they should take the money they are throwing away in college and just invest it. That is the only real way they are going to make any money off of their money...

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 11:02 AM
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So, my wife just finished her MSA in Acounting in May. She starts working for KPMG in august. She will be starting at 55k + health, 25 payed days off every year, and there is the potential to make junior partner in < 5 years (150k+). A good friend of mine just graduated with his BS in Computer Science with a 3.2 GPA and started working last week for Booz Allen starting at 62k + benys. I will be graduating in December with my BS in Computer Science and a GPA of 3.6. I am currently interning as a Software Developer for a company making 18.50/hr. Things are going very well, and expect to get an offer at the end of the summer. Starting salary should be between 55k and 65k.

5 years ago I was a high school drop out, and flipping eggs at 6am at Cracker Barrel for 8.50/hr. - I didn't even know how to type then... I could turn on most computers but that was about the extent of my technical abilities...

We, combined, have just under 90k in school debt, but will be entering the workforce making just over 100k a year. College is expensive. No doubt about it. And for those that just go and **** off for 4-5 years it is a tremendous waste of time and money. But, for those that take it seriously and focus on accomplishing something it's invaluable.

The problem is not with college; it's with the students. You get out of it what you put in. If a student doesn't learn anything how the hell can he/she expect anyone to pay them for anything... It's all about making yourself valuable. I say, if a student doesn't want to learn anything they should take the money they are throwing away in college and just invest it. That is the only real way they are going to make any money off of their money...
I will watch the video when I get a chance but I think it really can't be said any better than what is quoted

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 02:03 AM
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For you young guys

I feel sorry for the current generation that is being forced to go into so much debt to get a college degree. When I got my BS in Computer Science in the late 70's early 80's I did it the old fashioned way - by "working my way" though school with summer jobs. My parents didn't have money so I did a lot of crap jobs to make whatever I could and I scraped by, barely. That isn't even remotely an option for kids today because the cost is at least 10x what I paid. Unless you can pick up a full-time summer job paying $60/hr it just isn't going to happen.

I went back and got an MS in Telecomputing a few years ago. The only kids in there were from overseas because they had grants or some other form or financial assistance.

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 02:46 AM
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-01-2011, 07:53 PM
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The whole college thing is an interesting debate. I will say that had I never went to college I wouldn't be where I am today. When I was younger everyone had the notion that simply going to college and getting a degree was going to land you a decent job and a decent salary. The problem nowadays is almost everyone has a degree, and more people are finding themselves in masters and phd programs to get a step ahead of the competition. Another issue is that there are people spending tens of thousands of dollars on liberal arts degrees. I'm not trying to hate, but when you spend $60k on an arts history degree, I don't see how you're going to repay that anytime soon and make a decent living at the same time. And finally, there's a sense of entitlement out there, that as long as you get a degree from a college, any college, you're entitled to a nice salary as soon as you graduate. Problem is there are other people out there who have spent those 4 years learning to how apply their education to the real world, networking, and preparing for life after college. Those are the people that realize hard work reaps rewards.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 08:50 PM
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I feel sorry for the current generation that is being forced to go into so much debt to get a college degree. When I got my BS in Computer Science in the late 70's early 80's I did it the old fashioned way - by "working my way" though school with summer jobs. My parents didn't have money so I did a lot of crap jobs to make whatever I could and I scraped by, barely. That isn't even remotely an option for kids today because the cost is at least 10x what I paid. Unless you can pick up a full-time summer job paying $60/hr it just isn't going to happen.

I went back and got an MS in Telecomputing a few years ago. The only kids in there were from overseas because they had grants or some other form or financial assistance.
Many good points in this thread. Watching the video after this post.

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BimmerX2, I am currently working my way through a BSEE. I've worked my entire college career and have been going to school for 6 years with a year and a half left. I see these kids that don't work at all their entire college career. I don't understand how that's even feasible unless they have massive help from their parents. I looked into loans briefly, the loans I qualified for would not even cover my basic expenses. I do see a positive future for myself going into a technical field as someone else mentioned. However I know plenty of individuals with 4 year degrees "flipping burgers". I do believe having a degree (particularly a technical degree) after your name says a few things about you beyond the knowledge gained in class. You are able to learn difficult concepts quickly, you have good time management skills, chances are you developed some communication skills, and you are committed and willing to work hard towards a goal. I work in the engineering industry and I firmly believe that anyone with a sharp mind could hop into an entry level engineering position and through experience pick up all the necessary knowledge without college. But again, simply having a degree says a lot about you.

That being said, I do feel "college" in general is due for a re-vamp.

Here is another interesting video;
http://www.facebook.com/video/video....75062&comments

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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 01:26 AM
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You really don't need to have a degree to make lots of money in today's service based economy. I have plenty of friends who work as sales men in the produce industry and are doing extremely well financially without college degrees. I am, however, a firm believer in having a well rounded education. Being a Renaissance man so to speak, helps one to view the world from several angles and can give you an edge by being a little more versatile than the guy next to you who has focused his entire life on just one profession. Versatility is what drives evolution, it never hurts to have more knowledge.

Universities for the most part reside in densely populated cities. They are enormous centers for the exchange of information and knowledge. These information hubs are proven, in fields of Geographic Urban studies, to generally produce new and innovative ideas along with more educated individuals. From these ideas gives birth to the advancement of human societies and their standards of living. In short without Universities human society wouldn't be where it is today. College isn't for everyone but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have it at all.

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 02:53 PM
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i started my own company this year and as long as it keeps growing ill be making more than i ever would if i got a degree and pursued a job climbing some corporate ladder. first year and ive already made 3x what i did last year. oh and i only worked 4 months this year :3


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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 04:50 PM
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i started my own company this year and as long as it keeps growing ill be making more than i ever would if i got a degree and pursued a job climbing some corporate ladder. first year and ive already made 3x what i did last year. oh and i only worked 4 months this year :3
^^ high risk = high reward. all the best man..

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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 07:40 PM
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i started my own company this year and as long as it keeps growing ill be making more than i ever would if i got a degree and pursued a job climbing some corporate ladder. first year and ive already made 3x what i did last year. oh and i only worked 4 months this year :3

are you hiring? and do you offer benefits?

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 05:04 PM
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I feel sorry for the current generation that is being forced to go into so much debt to get a college degree. When I got my BS in Computer Science in the late 70's early 80's I did it the old fashioned way - by "working my way" though school with summer jobs. My parents didn't have money so I did a lot of crap jobs to make whatever I could and I scraped by, barely. That isn't even remotely an option for kids today because the cost is at least 10x what I paid. Unless you can pick up a full-time summer job paying $60/hr it just isn't going to happen.

I went back and got an MS in Telecomputing a few years ago. The only kids in there were from overseas because they had grants or some other form or financial assistance.
That is still possible. I did it and graduated in 06 with a BA in Spanish. I worked through it and even had the U pay for the second half when I got a staff job. It's possible you just have to keeps your eyes and ears open for opportunities.


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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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yea, school is just not for everybody
and from the information provided it really does show a collision course with disaster.
the 'school bubble' will burst as the housing bubble did...
fed reserve will continue to print trillions of dollars to 'save' the US economy but infact they will only continue to destroy it.

i say vote for ron paul
im not very political but at least he wants to make some 'change' in the right areas.
get rid of the federal reserve, get rid of the war on drugs..those two things right there would help the USA more than the fed printing money and the goverenment bailing out companies that need to fail...


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yea, school is just not for everybody
and from the information provided it really does show a collision course with disaster.
the 'school bubble' will burst as the housing bubble did...
fed reserve will continue to print trillions of dollars to 'save' the US economy but infact they will only continue to destroy it.

i say vote for ron paul
im not very political but at least he wants to make some 'change' in the right areas.
get rid of the federal reserve, get rid of the war on drugs..those two things right there would help the USA more than the fed printing money and the goverenment bailing out companies that need to fail...
I agree but how would you go about getting rid of the fed when its such an integrated part of the system? What would be needed to take its place?

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I agree but how would you go about getting rid of the fed when its such an integrated part of the system? What would be needed to take its place?
now that is a great question.

i dont know the answer. to say it simply.

i am not an economist.

but, it is very plain to see that buisiness runs the show, not the collective will of the people.

we must take into effect the fact that media plays a huge role in the public perception. information is tainted skewed and misrepresented.

thing to remember is that the media outlets are buisinesses, and run by the same group of people for the most part.

it is very easy for me to condemn the system and the state of the union, but a solution is hard to come up with. a practical one anyway...


i feel there will be a breaking point, at some point people will have to realize that we are relying on an unsustainable system.


the fed reserve does not care about America, they are a fuking bank, they want to get paid, and they do their jobs with extreme efficiency.

i really do hope that we are on the verge on a big social change.
we could def benefit from excessing all of the scaretactics and focusing on being in harmony with our planet and eachother.


you know what the world needs, a common fuking enemy. humans have a thirst for blood, albeit of another or of our own kind. we need some freakin aliens to come unify us bwhahaha, but seriously its true


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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 09:07 PM
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The problem is not with college; it's with the students. You get out of it what you put in. If a student doesn't learn anything how the hell can he/she expect anyone to pay them for anything... It's all about making yourself valuable. I say, if a student doesn't want to learn anything they should take the money they are throwing away in college and just invest it. That is the only real way they are going to make any money off of their money...
So you are saying the statics shown of college graduates with a degree in their field, did not land a job because of their personal traits and habits? I'm sure there are numerous amount of college graduates that actually went through college without "******* around" (how often do you see that at colleges now?), that don't land a job of their field. Yes some are luckier than others that get to land promising jobs. But what about the other *enter # of graduates of your class*? Did they all land promising jobs or are they working at the local bar or family business?

No wrong intentions, I agree what you are saying but we must think of the people that actually learned stuff in school that aren't lucky as other. I chose the JC route, as some peers took the Cal State route, and others straight to private colleges. Most of them still in school, handful that actually graduated with degrees, so I understand both view points.

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-14-2011, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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The problem is not with college; it's with the students. You get out of it what you put in. If a student doesn't learn anything how the hell can he/she expect anyone to pay them for anything... It's all about making yourself valuable. I say, if a student doesn't want to learn anything they should take the money they are throwing away in college and just invest it. That is the only real way they are going to make any money off of their money...

yeah...have to disagree with you here.

sorry, just dont think the biggest issue with college is the students. that is simply wrong.
the video is not suggesting that education is a scam, let me be clear.
however, the system in place is geared to make money, not to give the best education.

for example, the fact that college books change so often, and just as the video points out it basically puts an end to used book value. prices for books are ridiculous.

also, as the video points out, not too long ago a college student could work part time and afford a college education a place to live and a means for commuting. when you graduate you find a job buy a house...
now, the average college student graduates with school debts that compare the average morgage.

and did you say that if a student doesnt want to learn, that they should just stick their school loans in some type of investment fund?
really?


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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 10:53 PM
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I think that college isn't for everybody. We need to have more people in trade schools IMO.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-2011, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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^^ agreed, its not for everybody.

but should be accessible, higher education will only enrich the country. making it harder to obtain ( in the sense that it keeps getting dramatically more expensive, yes they will give you a loan, but that is the problem) will only hurt us overall in the long view on things.


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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 11:07 AM
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I agree that college costs should be curbed and some of the stuff with textbooks is ridiculous. College worked out fine for me but then again I didn't get something useless like a psych degree and I worked throughout school to graduate with very little debt.

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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 11:13 AM
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fed reserve will continue to print trillions of dollars to 'save' the US economy but infact they will only continue to destroy it.
Inflation is unavoidable. For example, if you were to start a country with say $1000. You loan that out to some bank or person with some amount of interest. They cannot pay it back because the debt owed will be more than the amount of currency in circulation. So more money need to be added so the debt and be repaid and this continually will occur.

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingbomb View Post
Inflation is unavoidable. For example, if you were to start a country with say $1000. You loan that out to some bank or person with some amount of interest. They cannot pay it back because the debt owed will be more than the amount of currency in circulation. So more money need to be added so the debt and be repaid and this continually will occur.
yes yes, i understand what you are referring to.

from the quote you took of me i think what i was really getting at is this,
i do not believe that the fed reserve has America or its citizens' best interests as their priorities.


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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 11:41 AM
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What I think is a true scam is the new wave of online degrees and six month programs for medical assistants and computer professionals. It's predatory!

My mom has been working for the Department of Natural Resources for my whole life. About 5 years ago, she decided to go back to school and get a better career. She chose medical coding, a 2 year degree, and got it with a 4.0 grade point from a local tech school taking night classes.

To this day she still works for the DNR.

I don't think college is a scam if you understand what it's there for: an education. If you go for English, prepare to have a really difficult time finding a job. I think many people mistake a college degree as a guarantee of job placement, and not only is that not true, it's insanely far from being true! Even people with legitimate degrees in expanding fields with good grades and experience are having trouble. I don't feel bad when Suzy Q can't find a job because she majored in "History and Development of Sub-Indoeuropean Cultures of the Late 1200's." To quote fight club (for the proper tone), "What did you think would happen?"

I also think American high schools are too geared toward college-prep. Many kids who would've done great in a tech school setting are instead steered at a degree deemed necessary and end up dropping out.

I think self-education has far more value than it's given credit for.
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