TSA thugs detain Rand Paul- a U.S. senator - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Angry TSA thugs detain Rand Paul- a U.S. senator

http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/23/re...-in-nashville/

can you believe this!? he is a senator. TSA has got to go!
do you feel safer knowing these goons are fingering little children and old ladies?
detaining senators and whatnot?

all in the name of 'security' ....

its time to change this crap, this is an outrage.

no 'terrorist' can hi-jack a plane if good american citizens were able to carry fire arms.


we really need serious changes in this country ASAP


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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 12:09 PM
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First and foremost, I think the TSA has gone completely overboard.

BUT, I actually think that this particular episode is a good thing. If the law is in place, it's got to be applied evenly. Those in power should not simply be immune to their own laws and systems. Isn't that the sort of crap that has put America in its current situation?

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 12:16 PM
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If something didnt look right in the scanner, they absolutely SHOULD detain him. If he is resisting, then HE escalated the situation, not TSA. They did absolutely what they were supposed to do. I don't give a **** if you're the virgin mary, if something looks suspicious, you get further attention, simple as that.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 02:42 PM
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^ This.


Suffer with the rest of us.

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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Senator is a job title and, no matter how fancy a person's job title, they're still a person. They aren't better than any other person in the line. People think that titles and fancy clothes make them better than other people, but that's not the case at all. Equality across the board. That's what this country needs.

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egierda View Post
First and foremost, I think the TSA has gone completely overboard.

BUT, I actually think that this particular episode is a good thing. If the law is in place, it's got to be applied evenly. Those in power should not simply be immune to their own laws and systems. Isn't that the sort of crap that has put America in its current situation?
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Originally Posted by RawRR View Post
If something didnt look right in the scanner, they absolutely SHOULD detain him. If he is resisting, then HE escalated the situation, not TSA. They did absolutely what they were supposed to do. I don't give a **** if you're the virgin mary, if something looks suspicious, you get further attention, simple as that.


Regardless of who he is, if something doesn't look right then he's not exempt. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for bad dudes to infiltrate the government (not that I'm saying he's necessarily a bad dude, but just look at some historical political figures). No job title or status would be above this.

I think Rand Paul's refusal to the pat down says a lot more about his attitude than the request says about the attitude of TSA officials.

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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 07:49 PM
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Regardless of who he is, if something doesn't look right then he's not exempt.
You, and they, are in fact wrong.

Article 1, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution:
Quote:
Freedom of speech and debate in Congress shall not be impeached or questioned in any Court, or place out of Congress, and the members of congress shall be protected in their persons from arrests and imprisonments, during the time of their going to and from, and attendance on congress, except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace.
If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pbeaul View Post
You, and they, are in fact wrong.

Article 1, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution:


If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
I'm 100% sure Art. 1, s.6 doesn't exempt a Senator from a pat down if a scanner shows up something suspicious. At the point of asking for a pat down, he isn't being arrested, reasonable suspicions are merely being investigated.

His refusal could leave those investigating reasonable suspicions, of a potential felony, with no other option but to detain or arrest him. Depending on the circumstances, his refusal could also constitute a breach of the peace, for which he could lawfully be arrested.

I don't think we should live our lives in fear of terrorism. On the other hand I don't think anybody should take anything for granted either.

The legal basis for your argument that Senators are, in fact, above the law in this scenario, is also flawed.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 09:22 PM
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I'm 100% sure Art. 1, s.6 doesn't exempt a Senator from a pat down if a scanner shows up something suspicious. At the point of asking for a pat down, he isn't being arrested, reasonable suspicions are merely being investigated.

His refusal could leave those investigating reasonable suspicions, of a potential felony, with no other option but to detain or arrest him. Depending on the circumstances, his refusal could also constitute a breach of the peace, for which he could lawfully be arrested.
Actually, it does. The reason it's there is because anyone could "become suspicious" of a Congressman/Senator and detain them thus preventing them from meeting their obligation of representing their constituents.

If you read it, it says they can't be arrested/detained UNLESS it's one of the following. Not unless you have suspicions of the following or you want to investigate something.

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I don't think we should live our lives in fear of terrorism. On the other hand I don't think anybody should take anything for granted either.
Too late, mindless sheep already think that the TSA is needed to protect them from a non existent boogieman. TSA is nothing more than security theater. There is and NEVER WILL BE a way to be 100% safe.

If someone really wants to blow up a plane (and themselves in the process) all they need to do is shove a stick of stick of dynamite/C4 up their ass and no screening/pat down would ever detect it. Then what? Cavity searches for every person that wants to board a plane?

Seriously, people such as yourself need to wake up. The cure is far worse than the original disease ever was. Pissing away all kinds of money for nothing, it hasn't even been shown to be effective. Just more bullsh*t to help condition people that there are lots of bad people out there.

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The legal basis for your argument that Senators are, in fact, above the law in this scenario, is also flawed.
He's not above the law, but the constitution clearly says that he can't be detained in the course of doing his job. Despite you trying to paint Senators/Congressmen as "normal folk" they do have many legal protections, privileges and immunities afforded to them that regular citizens do not. This is one of them.

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pbeaul View Post

Too late, mindless sheep already think that the TSA is needed to protect them from a non existent boogieman. TSA is nothing more than security theater. There is and NEVER WILL BE a way to be 100% safe.

If someone really wants to blow up a plane (and themselves in the process) all they need to do is shove a stick of stick of dynamite/C4 up their ass and no screening/pat down would ever detect it. Then what? Cavity searches for every person that wants to board a plane?

Seriously, people such as yourself need to wake up. The cure is far worse than the original disease ever was. Pissing away all kinds of money for nothing, it hasn't even been shown to be effective. Just more bullsh*t to help condition people that there are lots of bad people out there.



By the way they allow matches on the plane. FYI
No nail clippers. What if I make a sharp object from carbon fiber?
It is all about illusion of safety.
My recent trip to overseas made me confirm this once again.
Do they have many undercover security to stop someone who wants to do something bad at the airport? From what I observed many of them are small size females or out of shape mid age men. Are these people the ones who are going to keep us safe?
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pbeaul View Post
You, and they, are in fact wrong.

Article 1, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution:


If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
Bringing a weapon onto a commercial plane is a felony in many states.
TSA website about weapons: LINK
The actual CFR: LINK

So, him being detained for a possible felony is perfectly legal.
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:12 AM
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So, him being detained for a possible felony is perfectly legal.
If he was actually committing a felony (walking around with the gun in plain sight, and trying to board a plane/get through security with it...) then it would be perfectly legal. The suspicion alone is not enough to detain a Senator/Congressman. They are not "normal" citizens, there are special laws in place for these people.

What's to stop your political enemies from detaining you of a "suspicious"/possible felony and having you miss your plane... Unable to vote or whatever. The point is, you need to be 100% certain that a felony is/has been committed before you have the right to detain them.

That being said, the the TSA violates the 4th Amendment... So I doubt it's a big deal to violate other parts of the Constitution.

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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:18 AM
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If he was actually committing a felony (walking around with the gun in plain sight, and trying to board a plane/get through security with it...) then it would be perfectly legal. The suspicion alone is not enough to detain a Senator/Congressman. They are not "normal" citizens, there are special laws in place for these people.

What's to stop your political enemies from detaining you of a "suspicious"/possible felony and having you miss your plane... Unable to vote or whatever. The point is, you need to be 100% certain that a felony is/has been committed before you have the right to detain them.

don't be so sure on that, i stopped Donald Rumsfeld from getting on his plane until he got rid of his knife ... dude was Sec. of Defense and i stopped his ass when i was a screener ;) .. of course rumsfeld wasnt an arrogant prick politician, laughed, gave it up and went on his way ;)


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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 12:46 AM
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don't be so sure on that, i stopped Donald Rumsfeld from getting on his plane until he got rid of his knife ... dude was Sec. of Defense and i stopped his ass when i was a screener ;) .. of course rumsfeld wasnt an arrogant prick politician, laughed, gave it up and went on his way ;)
Perhaps you missed the part about it being a protection for Congressmen and Senators? Last I checked Secretary of Defense was part of the executive branch, not the legislative branch of government.

I love how defending your constitutionally guaranteed rights is now considered "arrogant" by the people that have no problem bending over for government intrusion into their personal lives.
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 08:08 AM
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I'm pretty sure everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so by your logic no congressman could ever be detained. And weapons don't need to be in plain sight for it to be illegal to carry them on a plane. The fact that the scanner saw something is reasonable doubt that he had a weapon and is enough to detain him.
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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 08:20 AM
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Every time i go through the scanners, i ask if they enjoyed my ball sack, sexy body, etc.

So far i havent, "rubbed" anyone the wrong way.


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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 08:42 AM
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I'm pretty sure everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so by your logic no congressman could ever be detained. And weapons don't need to be in plain sight for it to be illegal to carry them on a plane. The fact that the scanner saw something is reasonable doubt that he had a weapon and is enough to detain him.


Innocent people are detained for the purposes of a search all the time and are then let go if there is no further evidence in support of any offence.

That's how the criminal law works. That's how suspicions are investigated.

Arrest very rarely comes after conviction. People are arrested and then presented at court for a pleading diet or for their case to be heard. It's only after the court stage that they are convicted. Technically speaking, at the stage of arrest, they are innocent because they have not yet been found guilty by a court of law.
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 08:55 AM
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^

What about the random searches, how are those justified? I was pulled aside and tested for bomb ingredient residue last summer.


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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:04 AM
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^

What about the random searches, how are those justified? I was pulled aside and tested for bomb ingredient residue last summer.
they are justified because its a true random sampling, thus allowing the additional screening with out all the cry babies bitching about profiling


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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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Dosent profiling work though?


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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:12 AM
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Dosent profiling work though?
not exactly...


it wuldnt have caught timmothy mcveigh, or richard reid....

or the mail bombing dude, whats ihis face...


i mean there are other types of profiling that could, but they take time, not somethin available in the airport.


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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:41 AM
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I'm pretty sure everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so by your logic no congressman could ever be detained. And weapons don't need to be in plain sight for it to be illegal to carry them on a plane. The fact that the scanner saw something is reasonable doubt that he had a weapon and is enough to detain him.
No, your understanding of the logic is flawed. A congressman can be charged with a felony, and he would still be "innocent until proven guilty" in the eyes of the court. The presumption of innocence is a separate matter. The police/DA charge you with something, the courts determine whether or not you're innocent.

If you witness the congressman rob a bank, he can be detained and charged. If nobody seen him rob the bank but you suspect that there's a chance he might be involved, and he happens to be on his way to/from Congress you can't detain him. This is an exemption that exists for Senators/Congressmen ONLY, they're not exactly the kind of people that are hard to find should you need to visit them on their time off.

The machine detected something with his knee, he offered to show them his knee or go through the scanner again, but refused the pat down. The 2nd time through the machine nothing was found. So the machine incorrectly identified him. How reliable are these machines? Why should people be subjected to rigorous pat downs because of defective machines?

To presume that these machines are more trust worthy than a Senator/Congressman is retarded. It's almost as retarded as pulling pilots aside for additional screening.
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:47 AM
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not exactly...


it wuldnt have caught timmothy mcveigh, or richard reid....

or the mail bombing dude, whats ihis face...


i mean there are other types of profiling that could, but they take time, not somethin available in the airport.
What? Seriously, those are retarded examples. It probably wouldn't have caught them BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET ON A PLANE!

Mail bomb dude = Unabomber = Ted Kazynsky
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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 09:54 AM
 
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Security is an illusion. Have been in/around the field for years.
Cameras/access/electric fences/motion detection ect.

TSA makes most feel good that they are being protected. TSA doesn't find anything but loose change and buckets full of lighters. "I have seen them in secure areas" The things they "TAKE" are just things people forgot to remove, things they would take any other place around 1000's of other people just not in an airport. Don't believe all that money being spent to protect is accomplishing anything. TSA is a joke The background checks/testing that is done to get in is a joke as well. Wish I made a copy of it when it was sitting out.




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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 03:27 PM
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What? Seriously, those are retarded examples. It probably wouldn't have caught them BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET ON A PLANE!

Mail bomb dude = Unabomber = Ted Kazynsky

think out side the box for 2 seconds

IF the examples wanted to do something on a plane, profiling, specifically racial profiling (which every one claims to want, but only against "those terrorists" would not have stopped Americas OTHER terrorists

oh and for the record... Richard Reid DID get on a plane, you might know him as the (attempted) shoe bomber...


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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 03:33 PM
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Security is an illusion. Have been in/around the field for years.
Cameras/access/electric fences/motion detection ect.

TSA makes most feel good that they are being protected. TSA doesn't find anything but loose change and buckets full of lighters. "I have seen them in secure areas" The things they "TAKE" are just things people forgot to remove, things they would take any other place around 1000's of other people just not in an airport. Don't believe all that money being spent to protect is accomplishing anything. TSA is a joke The background checks/testing that is done to get in is a joke as well. Wish I made a copy of it when it was sitting out.

for the record, you are basically all sorts of incorrect in what you belive is fact

fact: tsa HAS found stuff, TSA HAS stopped explosives (read bombs) from getting on air planes

tsa's background check is the most detailed background check civilians get

up to and including both Top Secret and Compartmented Information clearance relating to national security

****, i haven't worked for the TSA for 5 years now, and they are STILL running my background check every 6 months.



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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 03:54 PM
 
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Let's just put everyone individually in a ballistics box and detonate any charges someone has. Would be cheaper and probably faster. Or the same concept with the sniffer. Sniffs air in the box and checks for residue.

I have been through the same background checks for work. The point I am going after is the test is not a skilled test, it's generic basic answer test. A background check doesn't make you an expert at something. There is zero requirements other than a diploma, not sure if GED is acceptable. "They" have a stick up their butt and think they are saving the world. They need to back off and do some thinking about things before frisking kids, obvious none threatening people. You have to admit this even if you were not one of them.




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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:08 PM
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Let's just put everyone individually in a ballistics box and detonate any charges someone has. Would be cheaper and probably faster. Or the same concept with the sniffer. Sniffs air in the box and checks for residue.

I have been through the same background checks for work. The point I am going after is the test is not a skilled test, it's generic basic answer test. A background check doesn't make you an expert at something. There is zero requirements other than a diploma, not sure if GED is acceptable. "They" have a stick up their butt and think they are saving the world. They need to back off and do some thinking about things before frisking kids, obvious none threatening people. You have to admit this even if you were not one of them.
again you are incorrect in the skills assessment

skills assesment is 1 month of training, and testing before you ever see the floor of a security check point

the final xray testing, when i was there, was 1000 images, and you could only miss 20 and keep your job, xray reading is a royal pain in the ass for the record

and if you think ANY screener enjoys frisking kids, or little old ladies, you are probably wrong on that account as well

ok, well probably SOME get their jollys off on it (sad but true i guess)

but the fact is, EVERY thing should be searched, checked, and screened, other wise, its a wide open freaking door....


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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 04:14 PM
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They need to back off and do some thinking about things before frisking kids, obvious none threatening people. You have to admit this even if you were not one of them.
Non threatening kids have been used as suicide bombers. Just saying, not agreeing or disagreeing with you.
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 05:06 PM
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If the fact that a serving US Senator has to subject himself to a frisk to get on a plane doesn't illustrate just how retarded the system is... I don't know what will. You guys really need to wake the hell up. Stop being so petrified by terrorists, more people die from diarrhea in one year than have ever died in recent acts of terrorism...

In case it wasn't clear, the terrorists are kicking your ass.
We didnt make the rules.

We didnt vote in the Patriot Act. Or the new provision that allows a US Citizen to be held without due process indefinitely.

They made the laws, they can suffer with the rest of us.

Not my fault they are too concerned with pandering to the lobbyist, voting in their pay raise, and ******* over our constitutional rights one little bit at a time.

**** them. They can get frisked.

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