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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Americans are sheep

Seriously. They get locked into the whole democrat or republican thing and most of the time have no clue why. Ask the average American to explain their political beliefs and they stumble.

The two party system is out of date, and to be honest it's been a LONG time since we had a choice that wasn't the lesser of 2 evils.

Obama has gotten us to the point where we are like a family that has so much credit card debt that the minimum, interest only payment is more than the paychecks coming in. Yet they claim that the answer is to spend more money to fix it. Why is it so difficult to see how wrong that is?

The republicans are almost as bad, in different ways. There is so much intolerance of certain freedoms that I can't honestly say that I can support Romney except for the fact that he will be far less harmful than Obama to our economy.

Obama has spent more on programs that did nothing but line the pockets of unions and liberal supporters than has been spent on NASA in it's history. The space programs have benefits for all of us. The technology developed for these programs ends up in our hands eventually, and we all love being connected and having instant information.

It's sad to see valid libertarians being shuffled aside because they can't beat the two real parties. No one takes them seriously, yet they have had some valid ideas.

Here's my short wish list.

1. Piss test for people needing welfare and lengthy unemployment. I had to pee in a cup for my job, they can too.

2. screw the unions

3. flat rate tax

4. force the government to have a balanced budget, fiscal responsibility is secksi

5. return more power to the states, make them balance a budget too. If you can't afford it, you can't have it.

6. change the pensions we promise to government employees and big unions.

It's pathetic for them to think that they can afford to do that. Look at the post office, what a joke. Hold people accountable. Balance the budget.

Democracy isn't freedom people, it's two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is freedom, and it isn't free. The fix is going to be uncomfortable, and tough sh1t. I'm sick of seeing people texting on brand new iphones while they pay for sh1t with foodstamps.

Screw the 99%. That includes a LOT of lazy mo-fo's. I am the 53%, and we have jobs, pay our taxes and we're tired of paying for people to sit on their asses, doing drugs and making more and more babies they can't afford.

Hope and change my ass.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 09:12 PM
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Yup. Except for the flat tax- I think a better progressive tax system needs to be in place. Before that, however, we really gotta figure out what things need spending on, and what things don't (and make the appropriate cuts). We also need to figure out a way to cut off corporatism from its root, probably by limiting Federal regulatory power.

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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 10:56 PM
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i agree x. good rant
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 11:06 PM
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I'm all about flat tax. How else would it be fair?...

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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 11:13 PM
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 11:43 PM
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I understand and agree with that. Ima one of that 53% too

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 12:22 AM
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 12:31 AM
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I'm not interested in any of that crap until we can figure out how to abide by the constitution cause I want all the rights afforded to me that I am not currently allowed to utilize.
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 01:21 AM
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Except it isn't in the best interest of those pulling the strings, so it will never happen.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 02:16 AM
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1. Piss test for people needing welfare and lengthy unemployment. I had to pee in a cup for my job, they can too.
Not to get into a drawn our e-argument, but this doesn't work. It's been shown to actually cost more than it saves. While everyone can think examples of the stereotypical gangsta-wannabee that's rollin' around in an Escalade on rims and buying steak and lobster with his EBT card, but the reality of the matter is that the majority of people collecting unemployment or food stamps are average, hard working Americans that have been hit by the times. I'd bet that everyone on here can name someone close to them that has been laid off semi-recently. Those are the people these programs exist for. Yes, it does mean that, sometimes, people will exploit the system, but that's just the nature of things.

As much as I hate to use the "slippery slope" argument,y ou also run into the whole "unconstitutional" aspect of this. The American people are entitle to American social programs and imposing mandatory drug tests has come under a lot of scrutiny for being a form of unlawful searches. Saying, "yeah, you're entitled to this, by law, but we have to check this one thing first" could be seen as a degradation of your rights, and nobody wants that.

QUICK EDIT: In a lazy attempt at citing a source, here's a link to an NY Times article discussing how mandatory drug testing for social programs doesn't work
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...rug-tests.html
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 02:38 PM
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Not to get into a drawn our e-argument, but this doesn't work. It's been shown to actually cost more than it saves. While everyone can think examples of the stereotypical gangsta-wannabee that's rollin' around in an Escalade on rims and buying steak and lobster with his EBT card, but the reality of the matter is that the majority of people collecting unemployment or food stamps are average, hard working Americans that have been hit by the times. I'd bet that everyone on here can name someone close to them that has been laid off semi-recently. Those are the people these programs exist for. Yes, it does mean that, sometimes, people will exploit the system, but that's just the nature of things.

As much as I hate to use the "slippery slope" argument,y ou also run into the whole "unconstitutional" aspect of this. The American people are entitle to American social programs and imposing mandatory drug tests has come under a lot of scrutiny for being a form of unlawful searches. Saying, "yeah, you're entitled to this, by law, but we have to check this one thing first" could be seen as a degradation of your rights, and nobody wants that.

QUICK EDIT: In a lazy attempt at citing a source, here's a link to an NY Times article discussing how mandatory drug testing for social programs doesn't work
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us...rug-tests.html
Logically I don't see how it's unconstitutional to have certain prerequisites for getting state/federal aid. You may be going through a hard time and require aid, however, you spending a grand a month on an illegal substance should immediately disqualify you from receiving said aid.

I understand that it might have had a small impact in Florida where they preformed the test, but there is no way that could be projected across the entire country.

http://www.samhsa.gov/samhsanewslett...ataTrends.aspx <- this map shows that Florida has relatively lower amounts of substance abuse and in conjunction, Florida also has one of the lower wellfare consumption. So how is that supposed to be representative of the rest of the country?

I'm sorry, but I'm with theX here, I'm tired of seeing families of 10 shopping at FoodMax here with carts filled to the brim, pay with food-stamps, and then they hop in an 45-60k car with dealer plates on it, and while yes, this isn't substance abuse, it is still infuriating being someone who is paying for their food.

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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 02:48 PM
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Well, if it's unconstitutional to drug screen for federal aid then it should also be unconstitutional for my employer to drug test me. At least I'm working, I should be able to do what I want on my time in my home!


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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Well, if it's unconstitutional to drug screen for federal aid then it should also be unconstitutional for my employer to drug test me. At least I'm working, I should be able to do what I want on my time in my home!
Preach it brother!
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 03:07 PM
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Well, if it's unconstitutional to drug screen for federal aid then it should also be unconstitutional for my employer to drug test me. At least I'm working, I should be able to do what I want on my time in my home!


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Difference being the constitution does not apply to your employer*, but it does on the government. The constitution is nothing more than a set of rules the government must follow, no one outside of government is required to follow it.

I.e. The only time you have "free speech" is in regards to government. If the government isn't involved, you have no rights, and therefore no right to free speech.

*Unless your employer is the government... It applies to them.
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 03:09 PM
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Yeah I'd support drug testing for aid programs.

Along with the flat tax.

Worked at a grocery store so I saw firsthand how many people abused the EBT card. One lady would trade hers for cash in the parking lot collecting it back after the person bought their groceries.

Another lady was dressed to the nines, nails and hair done, very professional, paid with an EBT card and got in her new shiny black mercedes.

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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 03:13 PM
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^Yeah, I've seen that side as well. Spent almost 3yrs working at a grocery store in high school. I still support social programs though, despite the abusers.

Quote:
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Well, if it's unconstitutional to drug screen for federal aid then it should also be unconstitutional for my employer to drug test me. At least I'm working, I should be able to do what I want on my time in my home!


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While I agree that what you do in your own home, in your own time, is your own business, the difference is one is dealing with the private sector and one is the public sector. Essentially, apples to oranges.

EDIT: Basically, what pbeaul said. He responded while I was typing. Well said.

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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 03:59 PM
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TheX for President 2012!!

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 05:02 PM
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I don't give a fukc about politics because they don't give a fukc about me


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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 05:07 PM
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I don't give a fukc about politics because they don't give a fukc about me


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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 05:32 PM
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I don't give a fukc about politics because they don't give a fukc about me


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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 06:13 PM
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The two party system is out of date, and to be honest it's been a LONG time since we had a choice that wasn't the lesser of 2 evils
This can be said for every country, not just the US. A good democracy requires a good amount of choice.

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Obama has spent more on programs that did nothing but line the pockets of unions and liberal supporters than has been spent on NASA in it's history. The space programs have benefits for all of us. The technology developed for these programs ends up in our hands eventually, and we all love being connected and having instant information.
heh heh, estimated cost of Iraq war on US economy: $2.3 trillion....

Total estimated budget of NASA since inception: $790 billion...

Yay for priorities!

That said, least you peeps have a space program...

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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 10:36 PM
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I can see how drug testing would cost more then it saves and most of us probably have that lingering drug test factor over our heads.

I just recently got a job and they didn't even make me piss.....they wanted a hair sample! Doesn't affect me because I don't smoke weed but it does suck when you are paying incentives that others are collecting off of and abusing the system.

Using it what it's intended use for has no foul play.....if we didn't use it you know damn well the govt would spend it for us! I am sure all of us have heard about the govt budgets, "oh we have to buy a bunch of random crap and use all of the money otherwise next year they will cut our budget".

That right there is the prime example of abuse! Screw the people collecting off EBT cards and hoping in a mercedes. We have bigger things to worry about like the govt spending extra billions of dollars at the end of the year so congress doesn't push to cut the budget so they can continue to burn money!

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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-12-2012, 10:38 PM
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Oh let's also not forget about all of the Misc spending the govt does as well! The govt needs to be audited AND the federal reserve!

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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2012, 12:06 AM
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2012, 03:15 AM
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2012, 01:13 PM
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This is also a dumb argument. Even the newest iPhone can be bought cheap as **** these days. Maybe they've had the phone since BEFORE they landed in a position that they had to get food stamps. Plus, a modern smartphone is, arguably, the best tool someone could have if they are job hunting because your always connected to multiple ways for a potential employer to contact you. The if your going to receive help from MY tax dollars, then you best damn well look and act poor or else" point of view is just ignorant.
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2012, 02:28 PM
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This is also a dumb argument. Even the newest iPhone can be bought cheap as **** these days. Maybe they've had the phone since BEFORE they landed in a position that they had to get food stamps. Plus, a modern smartphone is, arguably, the best tool someone could have if they are job hunting because your always connected to multiple ways for a potential employer to contact you. The if your going to receive help from MY tax dollars, then you best damn well look and act poor or else" point of view is just ignorant.
It makes plenty of sense to me. Plus if you have the latest iPhone you either paid 200 dollars and have a min of 80 a month phone plan or 600 and a 50 a month phone plan. If you can't cover your basic living expenses on your own, you most certainly can't afford luxuries. If you don't see how that is a logical conclusion, your ideologies are the reason this economy is going downhill.
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2012, 02:29 PM
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brand new iphone 600 dollars
brand new samsung galaxy s 3 650 dollars
used iphone 4 350 dollars
used android phone at least 150
how are any of those numbers cheap especially when you come buy food with stamps and get into a newer car.

your point is invalid sir; try again

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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-13-2012, 02:53 PM
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Our society doesn't grasp need vs want. Food is a need. Any smartphone, based solely on extra plan cost over basic, is a want. If you can't cover you needs, your wants can wait.
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