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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-25-2012, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Obama 2016

Not really trying to get into a huge political debate, most forums don't like it, but has anyone seen this movie/documentary? What are you thoughts on it?


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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 08:12 AM
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I haven't, but I heard that it was well done. I heard the beginning was aimed towards showing how tough of a life he had growing up, friends said it kind of made you feel bad for him.

Then towards the middle they get into various influences, etc... And the end it shapes where he has gone politically.

I want to see it, I just haven't had the time.

I'm sure "Obama supporters" will probably think it's horrible. lol


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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 11:40 AM
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Ive seen it & its all true stuff, it pretty much shows how obamas absent/polygamist father was a major influence on his life and talks about how the father is vary anti American way of life & how obama had several socialist influences in his life including the leader of obamas church which he paid off to keep quiet. also shows how obamas main concern is stripping the wealth from Americans and giving it away, which he has been doing for the past 4 years. it also shows how he is dismantling our nuclear weapons while others are increasing their warheads.
basically it shows how he want to turn the United states into a 3rd world communist country.
if you haven't seen it you should.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-26-2012, 10:15 PM
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Ive seen it & its all true stuff, it pretty much shows how obamas absent/polygamist father was a major influence on his life and talks about how the father is vary anti American way of life & how obama had several socialist influences in his life including the leader of obamas church which he paid off to keep quiet. also shows how obamas main concern is stripping the wealth from Americans and giving it away, which he has been doing for the past 4 years. it also shows how he is dismantling our nuclear weapons while others are increasing their warheads.
basically it shows how he want to turn the United states into a 3rd world communist country.
if you haven't seen it you should.
Why would ANYONE want to turn any country into a third world communist country?
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 06:52 AM
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Why would ANYONE want to turn any country into a third world communist country?
Good question, it's been puzzling me for nearly 4 years now!


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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 12:47 PM
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I haven't seen the movie yet. I think for the best interest of the country, they should do a free internet stream of it or netflix it at least two weeks before the election.

But, You gots to vote obama!


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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 12:55 PM
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^^WOW! lol


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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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That video is a prime example of why Obama was elected in the first place. Honestly who even knew about Obama before he ran for presidency? If memory serves me correctly he only served in congress for 2 years, which doesn't really put his name on the political radar. Most of what he was able to accomplish was through BS and smooth talking. I personally don't like the man at all and it's sad that we have him and another moron to choose between.

Another thing that gets me is that Obama has a PHd in Constitutional Law, yet he pushes for Obamacare. Forcing me or any other American to act in interstate commerce or face penalty by "taxation" is from my standards highly UNconstitutional. I'm definitely no scholar in constitutional law, but no matter how I interpurt the text this still doesn't fit in anywhere in the constitution that I've seen. Just because the Supreme court ruled it under taxation doesn't mean it's constitutional.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 07:13 PM
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That video is a prime example of why Obama was elected in the first place. Honestly who even knew about Obama before he ran for presidency? If memory serves me correctly he only served in congress for 2 years, which doesn't really put his name on the political radar. Most of what he was able to accomplish was through BS and smooth talking. I personally don't like the man at all and it's sad that we have him and another moron to choose between.

Another thing that gets me is that Obama has a PHd in Constitutional Law, yet he pushes for Obamacare. Forcing me or any other American to act in interstate commerce or face penalty by "taxation" is from my standards highly UNconstitutional. I'm definitely no scholar in constitutional law, but no matter how I interpurt the text this still doesn't fit in anywhere in the constitution that I've seen. Just because the Supreme court ruled it under taxation doesn't mean it's constitutional.
Nice! Totally agree with you 110%. Too bad we don't have good options to choose from for president


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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-27-2012, 09:05 PM
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I'd take Romney/Ryan any day over Obama.

I'm actually starting to like Romney. I think is heart is in the right place and he really does want to fix the country. I hope he wins. If he does, I hope he sticks to his principles and does what he says.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 07:01 AM
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I'd take Romney/Ryan any day over Obama.

I'm actually starting to like Romney. I think is heart is in the right place and he really does want to fix the country. I hope he wins. If he does, I hope he sticks to his principles and does what he says.
+1!

But if he doesn't, we vote him out too!

It's unbelievable the amount of lies that are coming out of this administration, yet half of this nation still stands by him. It's simply UNREAL!

Lets say we even leave all the "gaffes" out of it and stick with the major stuff. Like Fast and Furious, the 9/11 attacked in benghazi, it's unreal!

then you add it stuff like when he whispered to Medvedev.

It AMAZES me!


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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 03:14 PM
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You guys mean to tell me that some people actually take this movie as good, valid information rather than the twisted propaganda that it actually is? That's funny. Mitt's gotta be getting so desperate I'm surprised he hasn't started showing it at his fundraisers yet. Now his campaign is saying that the polls showing him losing are inaccurate. Not only that, but I just heard that the Republican Party in Florida is in hot water for having questionable voter registration forms filled out on behalf of them. The election supervisor for Okaloosa County even said there have been forms that listed dead people. And on top of that, he said he had to warn republican party officials because they hired a company that was paying people to register voters.
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I have to go see this.




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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 04:59 PM
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Ive seen it & its all true stuff, it pretty much shows how obamas absent/polygamist father was a major influence on his life and talks about how the father is vary anti American way of life & how obama had several socialist influences in his life including the leader of obamas church which he paid off to keep quiet. also shows how obamas main concern is stripping the wealth from Americans and giving it away, which he has been doing for the past 4 years. it also shows how he is dismantling our nuclear weapons while others are increasing their warheads.
basically it shows how he want to turn the United states into a 3rd world communist country.
if you haven't seen it you should.
He is giving it away to war contractors. Just like the the president before him and the president after him will.

Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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You guys mean to tell me that some people actually take this movie as good, valid information rather than the twisted propaganda that it actually is? That's funny. Mitt's gotta be getting so desperate I'm surprised he hasn't started showing it at his fundraisers yet. Now his campaign is saying that the polls showing him losing are inaccurate. Not only that, but I just heard that the Republican Party in Florida is in hot water for having questionable voter registration forms filled out on behalf of them. The election supervisor for Okaloosa County even said there have been forms that listed dead people. And on top of that, he said he had to warn republican party officials because they hired a company that was paying people to register voters.
Maybe I've misinterpreted your response, but Romney has no affiliation to this documentary. This film is independent; however, it sure doesn't hurt Romney if that's what you're referring to! I never said the information to be 100% factual as I don't have time to sit down and research every aspect or fact presented, but there are interviews from siblings (primary research). There was a pretty fair amount of research from my perception of the video, and I also might add that a lot of the information presented in the film came directly from a book written by Obama himself. I mean if it isn't true coming from his book then I guess people have definitely fallen victim to his illusions. I'd recommend viewing the film no matter which side of the fence you're on. Sadly enough I consider myself an idependent voter (with more liberal favoritism); however, I cannot and will not feed into Obama's BS.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 07:20 AM
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jbeck, it's AWESOME how Obama's OWN words are somehow Romney propaganda! LMAO!

I haven't watched the movie, but the trailers for it are completely Obama speaking, all in his own words.

Your point of view is very interesting! LOL


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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 11:24 AM
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It's not Obama's words that are propaganda, it's how the movie interprets them. Here's my review of the movie, since I've actually seen it.

Dinesh D'Souza, noted conservative pundit and author, has come out with this “documentary”. The film rationalizes that the American people don't really know the true Barack Obama. D'Souza uses Obama's own words from his best-selling memoir Dreams From My Father to try and decipher who the president is deep down, and D'Souza THEORIZES that the most powerful man in the world is really just trying to appeal to an absentee father. D'Souza visits the globe and promises to shed light on the "real" Obama. This pseudo-documentary is such an intellectually dishonest, disingenuous, feeble-minded character attack, relying on heavy amounts of guilt-by-association, armchair psychology, factual whitewashing, leaps in logic, and ugly race-baited visual associations to remind its public that Obama is an "other." I tried to be as objective as possible assessing D'Souza's takedown on President Barack Obama. I tried to analyze his rhetoric, his process of laying the case for his outlandish, paranoid claims. I tried to remove all personal politics from my assessment. What this movie truly aspires to be is the evidence that your crackpot uncle cites as proof that his dismissive opinion of the president , that he's trying to destroy the country from the inside out, is correct.

Let's start with D'Souza's fundamental thesis that supposes that Obama's entire motivation is to live out the ideals of his father. He's trying to impress his absent father. I cannot buy this broad generalization, and D'Souza keeps returning to it like he's the only one who can see this obvious conclusion. I find it hard to believe that the father Obama saw once in his life is really the guiding force of his worldviews. Therefore, the more information D'Souza spills about Obama's father the more he's repeating the same argument without making any concrete connection. He interviews friends of President Obama’s father in Kenya and asks for their views of President Obama, a man they've never known. There is a litany of interview subjects with tenuous connection to Obama, most are always a step or two or more removed from the man himself. We get his mother's college professor and Obama's half-brother living in Kenya. That's about as close as the movie gets. Often the interview subjects will disintegrate into weak hearsay ("I interviewed a guy who knew his father, so I guess I have some credibility.").

Here's a clue you're dealing with a crank: D'Souza tries to make hay out of the fact that Obama's book is titled "Dreams FROM My Father" and not "Dreams OF My Father." Rarely has one preposition been given such (half-assed) psychological insight. The fact that the movie purports to get at the "real Obama," and this is the scraps it offers, robs the movie of any desperately desired insight or credibility. Since we don't get people close to Obama, we get lots and lots of conjecture and people offering their "esteemed" analysis of the man. These so-called experts do what the man's worst critics do, which is ignore the reality of Obama and project their radical interpretation of the man. An even-keeled centrist is a boring narrative, so now he becomes a Marxist, a socialist, a leftist radical, an enemy of the American way of life. If Obama is really the socialist he's labeled, then he's a horrible socialist. No public option? Recycling the Republican health care plan from the 1990s, including the mandate? Relaxing more gun control laws than Bush did in his entire presidency? Stepping up record numbers of drone attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Does that sound like a guy who's "weirdly sympathetic to jihadists"?
D'Souza and his interview subjects even take the step of saying that Obama's even-keeled style is really just a front, that deep down he's a raging black man just like failed presidential candidates Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. The reason we don't see this front of anger is because, and here's the ingenious part, Obama knows how to manipulate us all! He's secretly hiding his surplus of radical anger through emotional pragmatism. D'Souza's 2010 book was called The Roots of Obama's Rage (he also penned the 1995 book The End of Racism, so I guess he was just a little early on that one). The fact that two years, or less, into his presidency, D'Souza is ready to lambaste the man as "rageful" makes me think that D'Souza just cannot perceive objectionable reality.

D'Souza also takes any opportunity to de-legitimize the man's accomplishments. Obama didn't win the presidency because he was an eloquent, charismatic, intelligent, and compelling political figure, not to mention that he got ten million more votes than John McCain. According to this movie, Obama won the 2008 presidential election because of one thing: he was black. In his eyes, America as a nation wanted to cleanse any collective white guilt over the transgressions of our ancestors, so we all voted for the man as a declarative statement once and for all that we are not racist. This is not the film's only simplistic generalization. We also have a psychological expert on what an absentee father does to a child. This is not a unique situation in our culture, nor is it one that prescribes a catch all response. Just because one person grows up without a father does not mean they will rigidly follow the same path in life; there are too many variables to prescribe one fate.

The most telling moment occurs when D'Souza visits Kenya to trace Obama's father's life. He interviews the president's half-brother and tries to needle him that his distant, famous relative is callous. "Why hasn't he helped you out here?" D'Souza presses. "He has a family of his own. I can take care of myself," the half-brother reasons. This is the only member of Obama's actual extended family that D'Souza manages to snag an interview with, and he shuts down his line of inquiry pretty concisely. Later, the man gives some rather hostile views of Israel, which is meant to signal that President Barack Obama must feel the same way.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 11:29 AM
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Then there's just the disingenuous and petty digs that omit key clarifying facts. D'Souza keeps railing against Obama as an anti-colonialist. Again, D'Souza offers little evidence to tie his theories to the man he's critiquing. One of his key pieces of evidence is that Obama returned a bust of Winston Churchill back to England. For D'Souza, this is a sign of his distaste for Churchill as a colonialist. However, the facts are that the bust was on loan and scheduled to return to England anyway, before Obama took office, and there's another bust of Churchill that remains in the president's private offices. And this is just one of the petty examples of D'Souza's argument approaching snide, dickish territory.

Then there's D'Souza's dangerous assertion that Obama wants to weaken this country by cutting defense spending and our number of nuclear warheads. Anyone that talks about seriously reducing debt and the deficit and doesn't offer slashing defense spending, a huge part of the pie, is simply not committed to that goal. Also, Obama wants to reduce the world's nuclear arms, and what's so wrong with that? How many warheads do you need? The notion that any reduction in arms or spending accompanies "weakness" is fanciful. Obama doesn't want to weaken this country by reducing America's nuclear stockpile while the world continues to wield these weapons. He wants to reduce all the world's nuclear arms to zero, an ambition D'Souza callously dismisses as fantasy. You know who also wanted to reduce nuclear weapons to zero? Ronald Reagan. As per his 1984 speech: "My dream is to see the day when nuclear weapons will be banished from the face of the Earth."

Now, as a piece of pure propaganda, this film suffers as well. There are literally slasher movie violin shrieks on the soundtrack when D'Souza and an interview subject discuss the debt under Obama. There's the image of thorn-covered vines covering the Middle East, threatening Israel to become the "United States of Islam." There is no connecting of the dots, there's only baseless fear mongering. What this movie becomes is one long string of codes and buzzwords and dog whistles, meant to elicit a certain response from its likely audience. How many times does the phrase "Third World" need to be repeated? D'Souza even tries to turn Hawaii as a stalwart of radicalism with ONE interview from a guy who makes unsubstantiated claims.

There's a lot of juxtaposition between foreign cultures, Kenya, Indonesia, but what about the fact that Obama spent a far majority of his life in the United States? The man spent four years living abroad, and D'Souza makes it sound like this was the central formation of the man's worldviews, not as he grew into maturity, went to college, and practiced law. D'Souza collects a conservative rogue's gallery of people who he feels had tantamount influence on Obama, including old targets like Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright. This is an unsuccessful bid of guilt by association.

2016: Obama's America, which hilariously predicts the end of the American empire circa 2016, is a documentary that is constructed entirely to reinforce the notions of the president's most vocal detractors. It won’t, or at least it shouldn’t’, convert any sound minded thinker. D'Souza doesn't deal with facts because they get in the way of his exaggerated narrative of a fictional Obama, a man who, in his eyes, is destroying our country in a quest to prove himself to his absentee ghost of a father. There's plenty of logical inconsistencies, conjecture, and psychological projection and little evidence besides the expert opinions of people who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew President Obama’s father. The basic assertion that Obama's presidency is his attempt to live out his father's ideals doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It marginalizes a complex, educated man, saying he's just a daddy's boy, just like the film marginalizes the president's historic election by saying it was simply an outpouring of white guilt. This pseudo-documentary is such an intellectually dishonest, disingenuous, feeble-minded character attack. It's slimy, snide, petty, and wallows in fear mongering.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 03:52 PM
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All I have to say is Romney has mormon magical underwear. lmao! Who the hell can take a Mormon seriously? I mean c'mon they worship a dude named John Smith, wtf?'

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 05:32 PM
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Jbeck, so what you're saying is that it's just like a Michael Moore "documentary?"

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 06:16 PM
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Jbeck, so what you're saying is that it's just like a Michael Moore "documentary?"

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I didn't say that, but if you want to make that link, that's fine with me.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-04-2012, 07:43 PM
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After the debate yesterday I'm way happier with Romney. Obama screwed up that debate bad.


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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 02:47 AM
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After the debate yesterday I'm way happier with Romney. Obama screwed up that debate bad.


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Another american sheep. Romney provided no substance, only political thuggery by constantly interrupting the host with little to no substance. Romney did not provide any details to any of his plans, only what america wanted hear, lying to the american people when he previously stated he would lower taxes for the wealthy which will end u raising taxes on the middle-class.

Romney wants to keep the same phucked up healthcare system that increases my health insurance by 30% every year b/c of middle-class arseholes who don't get health insurance even though they can afford it, they just go to the doctor and run up bills and pass the bills onto us poor bastards who pay for health insurance while the healthcare industry continues to reap huge profits.

Healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Yeah everything is going great for you now while you are working at a good job but let you lose your job and see where you go...down to the gov't office to apply for benefits, the very assistance you loathe and condemn others for using when times get tough.

Republicans are nothing more than self-served hypocrites in my honest opinion. Romney doesn't have a freaking clue how regular americans live. Vote for him and you are taking the US backward not forward.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 03:04 AM
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So it's ok for people to live year after year after year after year on welfare?

If Romney does the same thing he did in Mass. He'll limit the amount of time you can collect. Two years I believe, then it's time to be a big boy for a year before you can collect again. It has since been changed but it was a good system then and there.

And you really think it's the middle class that is taxing the health care system and our hospitals? I say nay.

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So it's ok for people to live year after year after year after year on welfare?

If Romney does the same thing he did in Mass. He'll limit the amount of time you can collect. Two years I believe, then it's time to be a big boy for a year before you can collect again. It has since been changed but it was a good system then and there.

And you really think it's the middle class that is taxing the health care system and our hospitals? I say nay.
Actually, the majority of gov't benefits goes to Social Security, Defense and medicare in that order. Please refer to the chart below.

Actually, poor people are provided with free healthcare, it's called medicaid. Wealthy people can afford healthcare. Middle-class people are a job loss away from losing their benefits and cannot receive medicaid until they are down to their very last thousand dollars to their name and zero income and no equity. This means that unemployed people who still have a savings (401k, stocks, bonds , investments, etc) and equity in property with zero income are between a rock and a hard place. What do these unemployed people do for healthcare you ask? They simply don't pay for health insurance on their own b/c after getting an unemployment check (1/4 of what they used to make) and paying all of their bills they don't have enough money to pay for health insurance, probably not even enough to cover their bills b/c most americans over extend themselves. If the unemployed don't have health insurance and they get sick guess what? They run up a bill at the hospital and simply walk out passing the bill to you health insurance payers, one of the biggest reasons our health insurance rate go up 30%+ EVERY DAM YEAR.

Not only is it unemployed people who run up our healthcare bills but it is WORKING middle-class people who do contractual work or other type of work that does not include health benefits. Yes these working people CAN pay for they health insurance but many don't and just don't give a dam and pass their bills to us. My sister's bf does this, he makes good money with his self-employed construction work but can't see the benefit of attaining health insurance. The guy owns a 200k house and rental property but puts the properties in my sister's name so it looks like he has no assets that creditors could go after. Even the middle-class that do not hide their assests chose to not pay for health insurance b/c many states have the Homestead Law which prevents creditors from taking their homes. THESE ARE THE MIDDLE-CLASS PEOPLE I'M TALKING ABOUT. COMPRENDE?

Recap:
Poor = covered
Middle-Class = Phucked
Rich = covered

NOW DO YOU SEE WHY PEOPLE WANT TO STAY POOR? MIDDLE-CLASS IS A JOB LOSS AWAY FROM POVERTY.

WITHOUT OBAMACARE WE MIDDLE-CLASS WILL BE SCREWED LIKE WE ARE NOW! Without a healthcare system change health insurance will get to a point where it's so expensive that you will see more and more middle-class people stop paying for health insurance and we'll end up with free health insurance anyways, closer to socialism that you stupid middle-class republicans constantly whine about.

It's kind of like how car insurance used to be, back in the day car insurance wasn't required and many would just simply not get car insurance and when they got in a wreck they would get sued but if they didn't have anything of value and were poor in sense of having no assets on paper and nothing of value in their name they could literally walk away from an accident without paying a dime and the other person's insurance had to cover the damages making car insurance rates much higher. Now that car insurance is a requirement by law EVERYBODY has to have car insurance or you could lose your license. As a result of this mandate in law requiring anybody who drives a car must have car insurance, this drove down the car insurance costs. This is the reason why we pay much less now for car insurance than we did back in the day. With ObamaCare anybody that CAN afford health insurance will HAVE TO get health insurance or they will get fined. It's only fair for us middle-class people who pay for our own insurance. The more people that are covered will bring the costs down just like it did for car insurance.

It's all common sense but most of america is too stupid to realize the current system screws us royally.

Romney seems to think the current healthcare system is fine, YEAH FOR HIM! He's rich why should he give a crap? As long as the healthcare system is turning a hefty profit who cares about the little people.

Actually, Obamacare is almost the SAME EXACT system he enacted in Massachusetts. The only reason he won't keep obamacare is b/c the republican party has instructed him to be against it.
The current healthcare system benefits the poor and wealthy only. The real republicans are wealthy, they don't give a flying turd about the middle-class.





Last edited by CountryCruza; 10-05-2012 at 05:55 AM.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 09:20 AM
 
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Might have to see this




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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 09:41 AM
 
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Have to find somewhere that its playing




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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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I thought this thread was about a movie?

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryCruza View Post
Another american sheep. Romney provided no substance, only political thuggery by constantly interrupting the host with little to no substance. Romney did not provide any details to any of his plans, only what america wanted hear, lying to the american people when he previously stated he would lower taxes for the wealthy which will end u raising taxes on the middle-class.

Romney wants to keep the same phucked up healthcare system that increases my health insurance by 30% every year b/c of middle-class arseholes who don't get health insurance even though they can afford it, they just go to the doctor and run up bills and pass the bills onto us poor bastards who pay for health insurance while the healthcare industry continues to reap huge profits.

Healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Yeah everything is going great for you now while you are working at a good job but let you lose your job and see where you go...down to the gov't office to apply for benefits, the very assistance you loathe and condemn others for using when times get tough.

Republicans are nothing more than self-served hypocrites in my honest opinion. Romney doesn't have a freaking clue how regular americans live. Vote for him and you are taking the US backward not forward.
I'm not one to start fights on threads with people I don't know. Especially about politics because no matter what you say people will always disagree. I try to be friendly not start fights. I just wanted to throw my opinion in the thread that obama did not satisfy me with his answers and Romney did a better job. Some people will agree with me. Some will disagree but what happens happens.


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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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A two-party system is in my opinion useless today. It may have worked back when the states first formed, but now in my eyes all it does is cause problems. I mean we have 2 candidates to choose from? I don't care for Romney, and I sure as hell don't care for Obama. The bad thing is I share views of both parties, but why waste my vote on an independent party? Independent parties will never have a chance!

I think it's ignorant that people vote for Democrats because they're for "middle class" and Republican because they're for the "wealthy."

Those that think Romney is full of lies and broken promises, have you looked at Obama's Presidential achievements? Maybe try looking at them then going back to his 2008 campaign. Obama has already proven he's full of Sh*t. So it's basically pick the lesser of the two evils, or stash your opinion because you're not entitled to one if you don't vote?

Anyways, I don't think America can be fixed until candidates are voted on for their ideas and not their party.
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